Panasonic Leica 25mm f/1.4 or Olympus M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.2 Pro for the GH4?

[Michael Ma]

I've never owned a M.Zuiko lens.  Is it as good as Leica?  The Leica doesn't have an aperture ring and it could be bought for about 1/4 the price in the gray market.

[jonpais]

You could also add the Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 and the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 to the list.

[Cinegain]

I think the Olympus PRO lenses are probably the best thing out on the market for M43 with solid built and outstanding optics. Super sharp and detailed from all the way wide open. The manual controls. Lens function button maybe even.

But... holy shit, are they expensive! Now, the PRO zooms are tremendous value and two of 'em (7-14 & 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO) can be had for under a 1000 bucks. That's a no brainer. The 40-150mm f/2.8 with teleconverter is still a strech for what I think is justifiable to pay, so I'm not getting it until it drops atleast by another 250. But single focal length lenses... I'm having a hard time paying up more than the highest end body in the system roughly goes for (E-M1/GH4). So the 300mm f/4 or 25mm f/1.2. Man, I wish, but it ain't happening. No 300mm f/4, 25mm f/1.2 Olympus or Panaleica 12mm f/1.4/42.5mm f/1.2 for me.

Of course... if you're willing to spend that kinda of money. Go ahead! But consider the character of each lens. The Leica might be a little more colorful, but also a little bit more playful and chilled. The Olympus will probably be more of a straight arrow, nailing that precision. But as I haven't tried either of these, I can't tell you for sure. But I think you'd be fine enough with something cheaper than the Olympus. Also consider SLR Magic and Voigtländer! Maybe even the ZY Optics/Zhongyi/Mitakon one. Perhaps two different ones for the price of one Olympus!

[midloch]

Take Pana Leica 25mm f 1,4. It is a great lens for the price. Just check my a short Mazda Cosmo video I made yesterday, wide shots are done by Samyang 12mm T2,2 and all the others by Panasonic Leica 25mm F 1,4:

 

[jonpais]

1 hour ago, midloch said:

Take Pana Leica 25mm f 1,4. It is a great lens for the price. Just check my a short Mazda Cosmo video I made yesterday, wide shots are done by Samyang 12mm T2,2 and all the others by Panasonic Leica 25mm F 1,4:

 

To heck with the lenses, all I want is that Mazda Cosmo! Nice work, Midloch! I didn't even know such a vehicle existed. And while I have no doubt both the Samyang and PanLeica are excellent lenses, there was nothing in the video that popped out at me - in fact, if anything, the images appeared a tad soft - but that could just be my Wifi connection. @Michael - if you read my rant in the lenses thread, you'll know that I applaud your decision to go with fast primes. Fast u43 lenses can be very compact, and have the opportunity to saturate the sensor with crazy resolution by f/2 or f/2.8, whereas slower lenses are barely able to correct for aberrations, vignetting, etc. before they encounter diffraction at around f/8. I also agree with Cinegain, $1,300-$1,600 for a PanLeica lens seems a bit excessive, but if you can find the Leica 25mm for 1/4 of the price, that would probably be a steal (maybe too good to be true, and personally I'd never buy a new lens offered for 1/4 of the retail price from anyone, even my uncle). On the other hand, I just bought the Voigtlander 17.5mm for $800 - nothing logical, I just had to own the lens - it's a work of art, old-world craftsmanship. And I also purchased the plastic fantastic Sigma 30mm, but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. I would like to know in what way the Olympus 25mm f/1.2 is superior to the Sigma 30mm, which LensTip calls best in class, to the point that one can justify spending $700 more for it. My guess is, it ain't. 

[Fredrik Lyhne]

Since there's no comparisons yet it's we just have to guess, but the Oly 25mm pro is probably sharper egde to egde since the Oly 25mm f/1.8 is. It's probably a little sharper in the center as well, but not by much. Other than that the Pana Leica lenses have a nicer color rendering than Olympus lenses IMO, but I haven't used any of the pro lenses. 

@Michael Ma Have you seen this review by Oly ambassodor Neil Buchant? http://buchangrant.format.com/Blog/the Great looking images! but we don't know how much post processing has been done. 

I like the PL 25mm a lot since I just want one 25mm for both photo and video, but as @jonpais mentioned Voigtlander might be a better option for video. At laest Shane Hurlbut agrees: http://www.thehurlblog.com/cinematography-micro-43-lenses/ SLR Magic and Veydra are also great. 

It's a little different than Olympus Neil's photos but I think some of the images in this review look really good! http://toolsandtoys.net/reviews/the-panasonic-leica-dg-summilux-25mm-f1-4-lens/

[Hanriverprod]

Helen on dpreview forum wrote about oly lenses on panny bodies:

"Yet to try them (little time/no light etc. etc.) but I imagine it's going to be like other recent Panasonics - in single AF, Olympus lenses seem perfectly fast, but you might notice the lack of DFD by comparison with Panasonic lenses in continuous AF."

https://***URL removed***/forums/thread/4065555?page=2

This is something I am interested in as well, especially autofocus differences in video between oly and panny lenses on panny bodies.

[jonpais]

I have zero charisma, nonetheless, as I'll be retiring next week, I thought I'd start a vlog for those suffering from insomnia.  I just recorded an introduction to my review of the Zhiyun Crane using the recently released Sigma 30mm f/1.4 Contemporary lens for micro four thirds. I shot this at C4K, ISO 800, f/4, with both sharpening and contrast set to -4 and saturation at -2. No color correction or sharpening were added in post. I'm pretty pleased with both the color and resolution of the lens.

 

[Michael Ma]

Thanks everyone for your input.  I have the 12mm f/1.4.  I'm loving that lens, but now I'm looking at the possibilities of what the 25mm has to offer, since it is fractions of the price.  About 1/3 (for bulk packaging) what I paid for the 12mm (retail).  I guess I should ask the question, will I find the 25mm useful if I already have the 12mm that performs better wide open?

19 hours ago, jonpais said:

You could also add the Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 and the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 to the list.

I'm tempted by the Voigtlander.  I hear they are not as sharp wide open.  If they can at least the center as sharp wide open, without having to stop down, I think I'd get one for sure.

19 hours ago, Cinegain said:

I think the Olympus PRO lenses are probably the best thing out on the market for M43 with solid built and outstanding optics. Super sharp and detailed from all the way wide open. The manual controls. Lens function button maybe even.

But... holy shit, are they expensive! Now, the PRO zooms are tremendous value and two of 'em (7-14 & 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO) can be had for under a 1000 bucks. That's a no brainer. The 40-150mm f/2.8 with teleconverter is still a strech for what I think is justifiable to pay, so I'm not getting it until it drops atleast by another 250. But single focal length lenses... I'm having a hard time paying up more than the highest end body in the system roughly goes for (E-M1/GH4). So the 300mm f/4 or 25mm f/1.2. Man, I wish, but it ain't happening. No 300mm f/4, 25mm f/1.2 Olympus or Panaleica 12mm f/1.4/42.5mm f/1.2 for me.

Of course... if you're willing to spend that kinda of money. Go ahead! But consider the character of each lens. The Leica might be a little more colorful, but also a little bit more playful and chilled. The Olympus will probably be more of a straight arrow, nailing that precision. But as I haven't tried either of these, I can't tell you for sure. But I think you'd be fine enough with something cheaper than the Olympus. Also consider SLR Magic and Voigtländer! Maybe even the ZY Optics/Zhongyi/Mitakon one. Perhaps two different ones for the price of one Olympus!

I think if it's edge to edge sharp at f/1.2 and people report that its as responsive/compatible as a Panasonic lens on a Panasonic body, I'd get one for sure.  But that's a lot to ask for.  But then again, at that price, maybe I should just get a Canon 50mm f/1.2 L, for what body......I'm not sure.  Probably have to be a Sony.

 

19 hours ago, jonpais said:

To heck with the lenses, all I want is that Mazda Cosmo! Nice work, Midloch! I didn't even know such a vehicle existed. And while I have no doubt both the Samyang and PanLeica are excellent lenses, there was nothing in the video that popped out at me - in fact, if anything, the images appeared a tad soft - but that could just be my Wifi connection. @Michael - if you read my rant in the lenses thread, you'll know that I applaud your decision to go with fast primes. Fast u43 lenses can be very compact, and have the opportunity to saturate the sensor with crazy resolution by f/2 or f/2.8, whereas slower lenses are barely able to correct for aberrations, vignetting, etc. before they encounter diffraction at around f/8. I also agree with Cinegain, $1,300-$1,600 for a PanLeica lens seems a bit excessive, but if you can find the Leica 25mm for 1/4 of the price, that would probably be a steal (maybe too good to be true, and personally I'd never buy a new lens offered for 1/4 of the retail price from anyone, even my uncle). On the other hand, I just bought the Voigtlander 17.5mm for $800 - nothing logical, I just had to own the lens - it's a work of art, old-world craftsmanship. And I also purchased the plastic fantastic Sigma 30mm, but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. I would like to know in what way the Olympus 25mm f/1.2 is superior to the Sigma 30mm, which LensTip calls best in class, to the point that one can justify spending $700 more for it. My guess is, it ain't. 

Thanks for your concern.  The online marketplace in Korea, which is where I'm living at the moment, is very reliable because the shopping portals are always on the side of the customer.  The Leica 25mm f/1.4 can be purchased here for around $400 US with bulk packaging with OEM lens hood.  I think it's only about 33% cheaper than in the US retail.  I meant 1/4 the price of the soon to be released Olympus 25mm f/1.2.  But after hearing about how Olympus lenses don't work 100% on Panasonic bodies, I think I might hold out.  Maybe Leica will release an updated one with f/1.2 to compete with the Oly.  Currently, the Panasonic Leica is not up to par with the 12mm 1.4 and the 42.5mm 1.2 which both have aperture rings, even though they are seldom useful.  Congrats on the retirement!

 

15 hours ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

Since there's no comparisons yet it's we just have to guess, but the Oly 25mm pro is probably sharper egde to egde since the Oly 25mm f/1.8 is. It's probably a little sharper in the center as well, but not by much. Other than that the Pana Leica lenses have a nicer color rendering than Olympus lenses IMO, but I haven't used any of the pro lenses. 

@Michael Ma Have you seen this review by Oly ambassodor Neil Buchant? http://buchangrant.format.com/Blog/the Great looking images! but we don't know how much post processing has been done. 

I like the PL 25mm a lot since I just want one 25mm for both photo and video, but as @jonpais mentioned Voigtlander might be a better option for video. At laest Shane Hurlbut agrees: http://www.thehurlblog.com/cinematography-micro-43-lenses/ SLR Magic and Veydra are also great. 

It's a little different than Olympus Neil's photos but I think some of the images in this review look really good! http://toolsandtoys.net/reviews/the-panasonic-leica-dg-summilux-25mm-f1-4-lens/

Thanks for the links!  These pics begs the question....do I need a 25mm lens when I have the 12mm f/1.4.  I think I can get most of these shots if I just got closer.

8 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

Helen on dpreview forum wrote about oly lenses on panny bodies:

"Yet to try them (little time/no light etc. etc.) but I imagine it's going to be like other recent Panasonics - in single AF, Olympus lenses seem perfectly fast, but you might notice the lack of DFD by comparison with Panasonic lenses in continuous AF."

https://***URL removed***/forums/thread/4065555?page=2

This is something I am interested in as well, especially autofocus differences in video between oly and panny lenses on panny bodies.

Thanks for the insight.  This type of information was more specific to what I was looking for.  Do Olympus lenses work as well on Panasonic bodies.  Mostly yes, but not 100%.  And for that price, I think I would want 100%.

19 hours ago, midloch said:

Take Pana Leica 25mm f 1,4. It is a great lens for the price. Just check my a short Mazda Cosmo video I made yesterday, wide shots are done by Samyang 12mm T2,2 and all the others by Panasonic Leica 25mm F 1,4:

 

Great stuff.  Thanks!  The style, colors, contrast, and transitions really go well together.

[jonpais]

Thanks, Michael. No f/0.95 lens is going to be tack sharp wide open, either in the center or at the edges. You could get usable images with the 25mm Voigtlander wide open, but they wouldn't be critically sharp. The advantage of ultra fast lenses is that they can achieve record breaking resolution when stopped down a bit. The Voigtlanders are special - if you haven't handled one, you owe it to yourself to go to a camera shop and hold one in your hands - they are rock solid, like holding a small hand grenade, and all the markings are engraved. True old world craftsmanship. But because they are completely manual, you'll have to adjust aperture on the lens manually: aperture information doesn't appear in the viewfinder of the camera, as there are no electronic connections. And you have to select 'shoot without lens' in your custom settings to allow the camera to shoot at all. I I have function button 5 set to AF Mode/MF to enlarge the image for focus assist, and function button 1 set to Live View Monochrome just in order to be able to see focus peaking. Because the Voigtlanders lack OIS and autofocus, they are not at all suited for point-and-shoot scenarios. As for whether you need a 25mm lens, that depends on what you are shooting. You can't shoot traditionally flattering head and shoulders portraits with a 12mm lens, any more than you can with a 25mm. For that, a 42.5 or longer lens would be ideal. I intend to start vlogging in earnest soon, but I wouldn't use a lens longer than 30mm or slower than f/2, because I rent a dimly lit, small flat, and the camera would be too far away.

[Cinegain]

1 hour ago, Michael Ma said:

Thanks everyone for your input.  I have the 12mm f/1.4.  I'm loving that lens, but now I'm looking at the possibilities of what the 25mm has to offer, since it is fractions of the price.  About 1/3 (for bulk packaging) what I paid for the 12mm (retail).  I guess I should ask the question, will I find the 25mm useful if I already have the 12mm that performs better wide open?

I'm tempted by the Voigtlander.  I hear they are not as sharp wide open.  If they can at least the center as sharp wide open, without having to stop down, I think I'd get one for sure.

I think if it's edge to edge sharp at f/1.2 and people report that its as responsive/compatible as a Panasonic lens on a Panasonic body, I'd get one for sure.  But that's a lot to ask for.  But then again, at that price, maybe I should just get a Canon 50mm f/1.2 L, for what body......I'm not sure.  Probably have to be a Sony. [..]

Haha, yesterday I was already thinking that one alternative to the Olympus would be... Sony A7S/Canon 5DmkII + 50mm f/1.4 as Contax Zeiss Planar or if lucky the Leica Summilux. I just can't imagine a world where a single lens of single focal length can be worth my money like that, unless I had too much money to spend to begin with and would live by the hashtag #YOLO ... because 'why the hell not?'. But there are arguments to be made that glass is key and that a body is outdated in half a year and optics are forever. Also, giving up sensor realestate for a compact system with noticeably smaller sensor that can't keep up with the big boys regarding performance... there's something to say for using the best lenses to make up for it.

Yeah, thing is between Pana on Oly and Oly on Pana, that the manufacturer has profiles of their lenses and corrects for their quirks rather well and play together nicely. If you can find a good deal on the Panasonic, you might be able to test it out and if you don't like it for any reason, give it a bon voyage? Consider, if you can't manage to sell it for the same, whatever you lose on it a rental fee. Can't imagine that turning out real bad though. The 25mm and 45mm I think are somewhat Lumix territory. You just have to look at the lens to see, that the Leica touch is mainly in the optics alone. Think they've really upped things more recenty, when they found out people are going nuts over legacy brands with top notch built, manual control and stellar performance. Perhaps as a response to the Olympus Pro line-up. Which I think have become more interesting to use as manual lenses on Panasonic bodies now that Panasonic cameras have started to include sensor stabilization as well.

It all depends! But usually going with your gut feeling ends up being the right choice. That transcends test graphs and prices. It's got to fit in with whatever you're doing creatively.

[Fredrik Lyhne]

5 hours ago, Michael Ma said:

Thanks for the links!  These pics begs the question....do I need a 25mm lens when I have the 12mm f/1.4.  I think I can get most of these shots if I just got closer.

I agree that the 25mm is not the same standard as the 12mm and 42,5mm. Panny is probably going to update that one with 1-2 years to compete with the new Oly, unfortunately at a similar price... As @Cinegain said, you can always sell it if you need better quality at some point with only a small loss. 

Regarding focal lengths it depends on what you are shooting. I have the 15mm and 25mm and I think they are both great for portraits in their own way. The 15mm for whole body and the 25mm for half body. 

If your shooting portraits with your 12mm I think this article is a good read, and you can compare the images from the other links with the 25mm's: http://www.thephoblographer.com/2016/08/01/how-to-shoot-better-portraits-with-a-24mm-lens/

If you can wait until Black Friday I'd be happy to make a comparison as I intend to pick up the 12mm PL  Good to hear that you approve of the quality of the 12mm!

[Michael Ma]

7 hours ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

I agree that the 25mm is not the same standard as the 12mm and 42,5mm. Panny is probably going to update that one with 1-2 years to compete with the new Oly, unfortunately at a similar price... As @Cinegain said, you can always sell it if you need better quality at some point with only a small loss. 

Regarding focal lengths it depends on what you are shooting. I have the 15mm and 25mm and I think they are both great for portraits in their own way. The 15mm for whole body and the 25mm for half body. 

If your shooting portraits with your 12mm I think this article is a good read, and you can compare the images from the other links with the 25mm's: http://www.thephoblographer.com/2016/08/01/how-to-shoot-better-portraits-with-a-24mm-lens/

If you can wait until Black Friday I'd be happy to make a comparison as I intend to pick up the 12mm PL  Good to hear that you approve of the quality of the 12mm!

Optics are perfect.  It is one of those lenses where you can just put it on f/1.4 and not really have to worry about not getting the best shot possible.  The DOF is deep when focusing medium distance and further.  And extremely shallow for macro.  It's very versatile in that way.  There is some vignetting at f/1.4 but I usually add a vignette to a lot of my photos anyway.  Very rarely, a vignette has to be removed because it takes away from the photo.  Only problems with aberration is when you don't have the focus perfect.  Bokeh is beautiful.  Focus is lighting quick and silent.

Only significant drawback is that it doesn't have OIS.  It doesn't need OIS for photos, but it could definitely use it for video.  But the GH5 should have the 5-axis so maybe it won't be an issue.  I have a few gimbals but I'd like to carry just a Manfrotto PIXI MINI these days.

[Orangenz]

Love the 25mm 1.4 but the 25mm 1.7 is also great. Same warm look, no chromatic aberration at all, same bokeh. They have to release an updated 1.4 surely. It makes no sense to have a arguably better lens as the cheaper one...

[jonpais]

Maybe no OIS is a blessing in disguise. All autofocusing motors, switches, and IS motors, which move hundreds of times per second, will fail over time. Check out this article over at LensRentals.

[jonpais]

On 10/13/2016 at 11:05 PM, Fredrik Lyhne said:

I agree that the 25mm is not the same standard as the 12mm and 42,5mm. Panny is probably going to update that one with 1-2 years to compete with the new Oly, unfortunately at a similar price... As @Cinegain said, you can always sell it if you need better quality at some point with only a small loss. 

Regarding focal lengths it depends on what you are shooting. I have the 15mm and 25mm and I think they are both great for portraits in their own way. The 15mm for whole body and the 25mm for half body. 

If your shooting portraits with your 12mm I think this article is a good read, and you can compare the images from the other links with the 25mm's: http://www.thephoblographer.com/2016/08/01/how-to-shoot-better-portraits-with-a-24mm-lens/

If you can wait until Black Friday I'd be happy to make a comparison as I intend to pick up the 12mm PL  Good to hear that you approve of the quality of the 12mm!

12mm is great for showing the subject's environment. When I was in college, I did a series of B&W studio portraits using a 28mm lens (on a 35mm film camera), and I still think they're some of the best work I've ever done. But I would never attempt that if I were shooting head and shoulders shots for a wedding or something, because of the distortion when moving in close.

[Yuan]

From the comparisons I've seen, I think Oly and PL renders very differently. To me, PL has a bold, distinctive look (probably because of higher micro contrast) and OLY has more of a smooth digital look...not sure if that makes any sense.

I got the PL because I like taking portraits and I think the lens's character works better with my style: https://www.flickr.com/photos/146178233@N07/albums/72157679142129036

If I shot mostly nature/landscape, I would've gone for the OLY.

 

[jonpais]

@Michael Ma I just saw a test of the Olympus f1.2 and it has some of the most consistent sharpness from center to edge I've ever seen. The actual center values never reach the spectacular results seen on some lenses when stopped down, but it appears to be an excellent instrument that should satisfy the most demanding user.

[jonpais]

Review

 

[Brother]

Black Friday meant a 15% discount on the Olympus 25/1.2 so i bought one. It's a pain in the a*s to use with the GX80 since the body is so small but still, great lens.