Need some help transcoding 1dxII on a PC..

[Shield3]

I haven't been able to figure out how to output H264 (no matter what level I select) to 4:2:2.  I always end up with yuv420 in the target file, and I'm using 150 or larger megabytes/sec.

Is there a easy way to get ProRes on a PC that anyone is aware of?  Using Windows 7 64 with the latest version of Premiere (and VidCoder / Handbrake).

These 4k 59.94p files are huge and would like to store them in a smaller format.

Thanks Shawn

[jcs]

What NLE do you use? If PP CC, you can use MXF OP1a and have a ton of pro H.264 options.

There's also Photon which supports ProRes on Windows and Pro H.264 options (10-bit 422, 444 etc.).

[Shield3]

PP CC.  I hate to store it in a MXF container though; my MPC won't play the file back.  Is there an option to save as .mp4 or something?  I have a ton of storage; the box I'm working on has 16TB (6 - 4TB drives in a Raid 10).  Maybe I'll just keep them as is for now.

I have been pretty damn impressed with this 4k60 footage and the autofocus in live view.  I picked up a used 1dx II with ~31k shutter with the 64GB kit, reader and a genuine spare battery for about $5050.  This is the type of camera that I will keep around for several years; it does everything I need short of having an EVF.  The screen is very readable except for the very brightest of sunlight, then I throw a loop on it.  This camera coupled with the c100 mk2 means I pretty much have everything covered.  I picked up a 24-105 STM (F/3.5 - F/5.6) and that lens is pretty damn impressive for $349 brand new, and it covers the full frame.

[jcs]

Will your MPC play ProRes? Any Windows tool based on ffmpeg can do ProRes if exposed in the GUI (as with Photon). High bitrate 420 H.264 will probably be fine, especially if 4K. You'll be hard pressed to see the difference between 420, 422 and even 444. Ultimately it's going to be 420 for final viewing (unless doing a theatric release).

Yeah the 1DX II is a very nice 4K60p (and 4K24p) specialty camera. Coupled with a C100 1/II or C300 I/II makes a nice pair for 1080p (or 4K with C300 II).

[Luke Mason]

Assimilate Scratch is the only Apple certified ProRes encoder on Windows platform.

[jcs]

$650 for Scratch might make sense for commercial productions. For the hobbyists on EOSHD, free or low-cost ffmpeg-based solution will probably work fine (ProRes is a relatively simple 10+ bit MJPEG-like codec and worked fine in my tests while creating Photon, with ProRes output test edits in Premiere and FCPX).

[Justin Bacle]

You can export in DNxHD and play them back with VLC. Cineform is an option too with the free VLC plugin

[gt3rs]

Personally I’m not sure is worth the work to transcode because storage is getting cheaper and cheaper plus the advantage of MJPEG that you will be able to read it even in the future view that is a super simple codec.

On Windows PC most people use Avid codecs DNxHR and are basically equivalents of Prores. Here the spec: http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/White_Paper/DNxHR-Codec-Bandwidth-Specifications

As you can see that the only one that will save you more space compared to MJPEG is DNxHR LB (low bandwidth) that at 4k DCI 8bit 4:2:2 @60p is 45 MB/s = 360 mbits (vs. 800 mbtis of MJPEG).  

There is no magic, if you want to keep the original quality you will end up with large files.

I output my master always in DNxHR HQ (SQ would probably be sufficient) and a second copy for web or consumer distribution in h.264 at 50 mbits.

[Shield3]

On 10/17/2016 at 2:36 AM, gt3rs said:

Personally I’m not sure is worth the work to transcode because storage is getting cheaper and cheaper plus the advantage of MJPEG that you will be able to read it even in the future view that is a super simple codec.

On Windows PC most people use Avid codecs DNxHR and are basically equivalents of Prores. Here the spec: http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/White_Paper/DNxHR-Codec-Bandwidth-Specifications

As you can see that the only one that will save you more space compared to MJPEG is DNxHR LB (low bandwidth) that at 4k DCI 8bit 4:2:2 @60p is 45 MB/s = 360 mbits (vs. 800 mbtis of MJPEG).  

There is no magic, if you want to keep the original quality you will end up with large files.

I output my master always in DNxHR HQ (SQ would probably be sufficient) and a second copy for web or consumer distribution in h.264 at 50 mbits.

I have pretty much come to this conclusion as well.  Just keeping the originals until I can edit them down.  Love keeping the EXIF intact for the video files, and I did a few transcodes per JCS's recommendation with FFMPEG and the command line (super easy) - every "version" of Prores came out slightly larger than the originals for 4k60!  DOH!

[PeterGregg]

In my research on the 5D4 I have come across the program Convert-V3 that will convert the MJPEG files to ProRes at original size at 422 or to half size (2K) at 444. The best time I can achieve on the Windows side so far is 3:1 with an RX-480. Reid says the Mac side on a 2012 iMac will do the time in 1:1 which sounds VERY appealing. He also says a new iMac does worse. I can attest to that, a spanking brand new iMac does not beat the 3:1 time ratio, and neither does a friends "trash can" Mac.

I am working with the owner of the software to try and bring the speed down hopefully to less than a 2:1 ratio if it can be done. I have a YT channel and have been making YT videos featuring this stuff and getting the typical "the DSLR/DSLM cameras are not video recorders" - or the obligatory "it works fine on my computer" comments. Having the camera in hand negates all those comments. The 5D4 file sizes are atrocious but the camera's Dual Pixel Focus is better than anything on any camcorder. I returned the 5D4, but now that I have a work-around for the weight of those files both in size and in my software I am considering buying it again. The GH5 also looks very appealing. Choices choices. I also have a G85 coming tomorrow and that camera looks to be promising too and have been working with the GX85 which is a snazzy little camera.

One more comment, the other part of the "secret" is if you have the habit of formatting your cards in the camera right before you use them (which I do) and accidentally change an eFat card to a FAT32 card (that would be any card smaller than a 256GB) and come home with a LOT of small 1 minute files, there is an answer for that too. In the software that comes with the camera (and you can download it online from Canon) they have buried a merge choice you can use to merge the files to one big file. It took 55 4GB 1 minute files and merged them into 4 files in less than 5 minute( lossless). The software is EOS Movie Utility (the latest version) and is free to camera owners and only works with Canon files. So with those 2 pieces of software the 5D4 (or your 1DX2) becomes manageable. I will be making more YT videos to show folks how to do this. My YT channel is low level so it isn't really for you guys in here.

I am not solely into videos. Using the 5D4 in 4K video mode with children for portrait work and pulling stills is proving to be an outrageously wonderful and amazing tool. The DP focus keeps the little ones in spot focus even with the 50L lens wide open. You can pull a TIFF file out of the video stream and get stunning results. It's a whole new ball game. I miss the camera already lol. The GH5 6K photo video mode is something I am looking forward too. If they ever get anything like DP focus in that camera it will certainly be indispensable

Peter

[jcs]

1 hour ago, Shield3 said:

I have pretty much come to this conclusion as well.  Just keeping the originals until I can edit them down.  Love keeping the EXIF intact for the video files, and I did a few transcodes per JCS's recommendation with FFMPEG and the command line (super easy) - every "version" of Prores came out slightly larger than the originals for 4k60!  DOH!

Makes sense- ProRes is 10-bit, 1DX II MJPEG is 8-bit. Using "Pro" (XFAVC-like) H.264 with 422 and IPB will get you much smaller files while retaining high quality. Even consumer 420 H.264 IPB with sufficiently high bitrates (150Mbps or more for 4K) can look really good: likely won't be able to see any difference at all on the final 420 IPB low-bitrate H.264 YouTube/Vimeo consumer playback experience. I don't bother to transcode the 1DX II footage, though I only use it sparingly for 4K60 shots (else C300 II 1080p IPB 10-bit 422 at 50Mbps (greenscreen with limited motion).

If you're not using 4K for the final, you could transcode to very high quality 1080p, saving about 4x the space.

[gt3rs]

In a couple of years you will not even think about the size of these files. Today a 8 TB HDD cost around 250 usd for the same price in two years you will get 16+ TB, a 2 TB SDD cost 600 usd today. So why bother transcoding in something else, the time and the risk that you lose something in transcoding is not worth the effort in my opinion. 

Btw editing 4k h264 files is more resource intensive than edit 4k MJPEG at least in Resolve on windows. In fact I edit directly from the MJPEG.

CFast card are so fast that you can even edit out of the card directly so in case you have a long take that has only 5 min of content that you want to keep you could edit from CFast card and render out even in MJPEG the 5 min that you want to keep and save space.

[Shield3]

11 hours ago, PeterGregg said:

In my research on the 5D4 I have come across the program Convert-V3 that will convert the MJPEG files to ProRes at original size at 422 or to half size (2K) at 444. The best time I can achieve on the Windows side so far is 3:1 with an RX-480. Reid says the Mac side on a 2012 iMac will do the time in 1:1 which sounds VERY appealing. He also says a new iMac does worse. I can attest to that, a spanking brand new iMac does not beat the 3:1 time ratio, and neither does a friends "trash can" Mac.

I am working with the owner of the software to try and bring the speed down hopefully to less than a 2:1 ratio if it can be done. I have a YT channel and have been making YT videos featuring this stuff and getting the typical "the DSLR/DSLM cameras are not video recorders" - or the obligatory "it works fine on my computer" comments. Having the camera in hand negates all those comments. The 5D4 file sizes are atrocious but the camera's Dual Pixel Focus is better than anything on any camcorder. I returned the 5D4, but now that I have a work-around for the weight of those files both in size and in my software I am considering buying it again. The GH5 also looks very appealing. Choices choices. I also have a G85 coming tomorrow and that camera looks to be promising too and have been working with the GX85 which is a snazzy little camera.

One more comment, the other part of the "secret" is if you have the habit of formatting your cards in the camera right before you use them (which I do) and accidentally change an eFat card to a FAT32 card (that would be any card smaller than a 256GB) and come home with a LOT of small 1 minute files, there is an answer for that too. In the software that comes with the camera (and you can download it online from Canon) they have buried a merge choice you can use to merge the files to one big file. It took 55 4GB 1 minute files and merged them into 4 files in less than 5 minute( lossless). The software is EOS Movie Utility (the latest version) and is free to camera owners and only works with Canon files. So with those 2 pieces of software the 5D4 (or your 1DX2) becomes manageable. I will be making more YT videos to show folks how to do this. My YT channel is low level so it isn't really for you guys in here.

I am not solely into videos. Using the 5D4 in 4K video mode with children for portrait work and pulling stills is proving to be an outrageously wonderful and amazing tool. The DP focus keeps the little ones in spot focus even with the 50L lens wide open. You can pull a TIFF file out of the video stream and get stunning results. It's a whole new ball game. I miss the camera already lol. The GH5 6K photo video mode is something I am looking forward too. If they ever get anything like DP focus in that camera it will certainly be indispensable

Peter

Hi Peter.  Keep in mind the 1dx II uses CFast and CF cards, so the rules are slightly different.

From the 1dx II manual:

"Card's file formats

Cards with 128 GB or lower capacity will be formatted in FAT32.  Cards with a capacity higher than 128 GB will be formatted in exFAT.  CFAST cards will be formatted in exFAT regardless of capacity.  When shooting a movie with a CF card larger than 128 GB or with a CFast card formatted in exFAT, the movie will be reorded in a single file even if it exceeds 4 GB. (The movie file will exceed 4 GB)."

I bought a 256 CFast 2.0 card and tested it last night - the 29:59 4k 60 movie file was 172GB in size.  So, with the 5dIV, just format your cards in Windows as exFAT and you won't have this problem anymore.

 

Shawn