Warning about Panasonic g85/80 & lens

[jonpais]

4 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

Update on my g85 ordeal. This is a crosspost from a dpreview thread I opened there.

I took the camera back to the reseller store I bought it from and I showed them some footage. They agreed it was unacceptable. Then two reps separately checked the store model and saw that it behaved the same way. So the manager opened another new box and checked it and was shocked to see the same thing. That's three cameras back to back all showing video footage bouncing around with basic camera moves, pans and tilts. They gave me a full refund for both camera, and lens and I heard the manager call the Panasonic office and speak to someone there he knew. He asked if they were aware of this issue. They said they weren't.

Disappointed. If they fix this problem, it seems like it can be a wonderful camera for video, but unfortunately footage is unusable.

Excellent customer care you received 

14 minutes ago, Chris Oh said:

Wow, some people on dpreview are jerks.

that's true of the entire Internet?

[Hanriverprod]

40 minutes ago, Chris Oh said:

Wow, some people on dpreview are jerks.

I was going to post some footage but it's so embarrassing that I opted not to. I guess I have to now after work for some internet cred. I will post a link here too. 

[kidzrevil]

Damn are all these camera manufacturers rushing shit out the door before they test it ?!

[Hanriverprod]

 

 

[Chris Oh]

:(

[Michael Ma]

I am now eagerly awaiting my GX85.

[Hanriverprod]

29 minutes ago, Michael Ma said:

I am now eagerly awaiting my GX85.

Haha good choice!

[Chris Oh]

hm. I''m wondering if I should get a used GX85 and either 12-35 or 15mm instead.

[mercer]

11 minutes ago, Chris Oh said:

hm. I''m wondering if I should get a used GX85 and either 12-35 or 15mm instead.

I'm probably selling mine in a week or two, PM me if you're interested. 

And if you're in the US. 

[jonpais]

37 minutes ago, Chris Oh said:

hm. I''m wondering if I should get a used GX85 and either 12-35 or 15mm instead.

Any reason you're getting the 12-35mm? And which 15mm are you considering? I own the 12-35, and I think its work against bright light is pretty marginal, plus I almost always shoot at the wide end anyway, so something like the modestly faster Samyang or whatever would probably suit my needs better. But I've never handled Samyang/Rokinon, so I have no idea about build quality. Also, Panasonic is sure to issue a firmware update for the G80/85 soon, so I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch.   I bought the 12-35 and 35-100 when I picked up the GH3: the 35-100 has nice image quality, beautiful even, but the OIS is garbage; and the 12-35mm isn't super wonderful either; no way would I pay the premium for an overpriced plastic lens for OIS and garbage AF (for stills it might be okay, but for continuous AF or face detection, forget it). I would still recommend a genuine lens like the Voigtlander, or any other wide. The IBIS in either the GX85 or the G80/85 when firmware update is released should be enough to iron out the wriggles anyhow.

[jonpais]

34 minutes ago, mercer said:

I'm probably selling mine in a week or two, PM me if you're interested. 

And if you're in the US. 

Why are you selling GX85?

 

[Chris Oh]

58 minutes ago, mercer said:

I'm probably selling mine in a week or two, PM me if you're interested. 

And if you're in the US. 

Awesome! waiting for a payment from a sidejob so I will let you know! thank you.

 

43 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Any reason you're getting the 12-35mm? And which 15mm are you considering? I own the 12-35, and I think its work against bright light is pretty marginal, plus I almost always shoot at the wide end anyway, so something like the modestly faster Samyang or whatever would probably suit my needs better. But I've never handled Samyang/Rokinon, so I have no idea about build quality. Also, Panasonic is sure to issue a firmware update for the G80/85 soon, so I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch.   I bought the 12-35 and 35-100 when I picked up the GH3: the 35-100 has nice image quality, beautiful even, but the OIS is garbage; and the 12-35mm isn't super wonderful either; no way would I pay the premium for an overpriced plastic lens for OIS and garbage AF (for stills it might be okay, but for continuous AF or face detection, forget it). I would still recommend a genuine lens like the Voigtlander, or any other wide. The IBIS in either the GX85 or the G80/85 when firmware update is released should be enough to iron out the wriggles anyhow.

I shoot kids a lot and sometimes I need auto setting everything with a zoom/autofocus. (instead of drowning in technicals and missing a shot) I was trying to stay with the same manufacturer, but will look at Oly 12-40 again.

As far as 15mm, pana leica 1.7. I do have manual focus lenses when I have extra time, but sometimes I need that autofocus indoors with kids.

[jonpais]

@Chris Oh How has tracking worked so far with Panasonic? Which camera and lenses are you using? 

[Chris Oh]

18 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@Chris Oh How has tracking worked so far with Panasonic? Which camera and lenses are you using? 

This would be my first panasonic.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

Why are you selling GX85?

 

Well, I think it's an awesome camera, other than its lack of mic input, it's better than the G7, I am just starting over with video altogether.

I have collected and tested a bunch of cameras and lenses over the past year and a half, and I want to simplify everything. I don't do any professional work, so I need less equipment. I do have some modest narrative goals I am working towards, but now that I have tested a lot of these consumer cameras, I am fairly certain what I need equipment wise to help me reach those goals... And it isn't much. 

Also, I have some small projects where I am kinda interested in using a point and shoot camera, so the LX10 is on my radar and even a consumer camcorder for another project I have in mind. 

[jonpais]

1 hour ago, Chris Oh said:

This would be my first panasonic.

@Chris Oh Single AF is fine - continuous AF, face tracking, not so fine. Also, AF with other stuff in the frame, like shiny objects, a bright light or a contrasty subject in the background (or even contrasty clothing or shiny accessories) will fool the camera. I've tried them all when testing the Zhiyun Crane, and none of them worked consistently. I'm not trying to trash Panasonic, I know I've been pretty harsh about their lenses: but I've owned four of their cameras already and even intend to get the GH5 if it lives up to expectations; but I really can't get over the fact that their lenses feel so cheap (incomprehensible how so many reviewers found the build quality of the 12-35 and 35-100 so incredible). To their credit, TCSTV, after trying out the 100-400mm Leica, dismissed it out of hand (if I'm not mistaken), because the zoom felt so horrible. In fact, I hadn't used the 12-35 and 35-100 in ages (I had fallen in love with the S35 look of adapted lenses with Metabones), but after getting the Crane, I had no choice. And I learned the hard way that they perform best when manually focussed. At the very least, I'd check out the excellent reviews over at CameraLabs or Max Yuryev's YouTube channel before spending so much money. 

Edit: I recently saw a several years-old comparison over at Lensrentals.com of top rated 50mm lenses, from esteemed manufacturers like Leica all the way to Zeiss and including Voigtlander and Sigma. And the $950 Sigma (actually around $850 nowadays) compared favorably with the $11,000 Leica lens, and the Voigtlander was no slouch either. Which is another reason why I feel Panasonic made a huge mistake partnering with the legendary German manufacturer. If you haven't done so already, you should go to a camera shop and handle the Sigma and see how it feels compared to the Panasonic. And the Voigtlander is the equal or better of Leica and Zeiss as far as build quality is concerned (I much prefer the feel of the Noktons to the Milvus lenses). Once you've held a Voigtlander in your hands, all these other plastic-y lenses will feel insubstantial. The weather sealing of both Panasonic lenses and bodies is no more than advertising fluff, they are 'splash proof', that's all - and for most of us using external microphones, sliders, adapted lenses, digital audio recorders and focal reducers, this is a moot point.

[Chris Oh]

17 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@Chris Oh Single AF is fine - continuous AF, face tracking, not so fine. Also, AF with other stuff in the frame, like shiny objects, a bright light or a contrasty subject in the background (or even contrasty clothing or shiny accessories) will fool the camera. I've tried them all when testing the Zhiyun Crane, and none of them worked consistently. I'm not trying to trash Panasonic, I know I've been pretty harsh about their lenses: but I've owned 4 of their cameras already and even intend to get the GH5 if it lives up to expectations.; but I really can't get over the fact that they feel so cheap (incomprehensible how so many reviewers found the build quality of the 12-35 and 35-100 so incredible). In fact, I hadn't used them in ages (I had fallen in love with the S35 look of adapted lenses with Metabones), but after getting the Crane, I had no choice. And I learned the hard way that they perform best when manually focussed. At the very least, I'd check out the excellent reviews over at CameraLabs or Max Yuryev's YouTube channel before spending so much money. 

Thank you for your input. It's much appreciated. IBIS is essential to me, and I'm trying not to go over Around $1100 USD total. I will do some more research on autofocus. What I did with my previous cameras(t2i, nex-5n, a6000) were i would lock focus with autofocus first, then switch to manual, if using kit lens instead of manual focus lenses, most of the time. As much as I like stills on Fuji's, X-T2 is way over my price range(and no ibis), and so as the A6500. Plus, I'm starting to dig the size of M43 in general.

Back on topic, I really hope Panasonic fix this issue OP mentioned. I'm in the market for a camera in the next month or so.

[jonpais]

1 hour ago, Chris Oh said:

Thank you for your input. It's much appreciated. IBIS is essential to me, and I'm trying not to go over Around $1100 USD total. I will do some more research on autofocus. What I did with my previous cameras(t2i, nex-5n, a6000) were i would lock focus with autofocus first, then switch to manual, if using kit lens instead of manual focus lenses, most of the time. As much as I like stills on Fuji's, X-T2 is way over my price range(and no ibis), and so as the A6500. Plus, I'm starting to dig the size of M43 in general.

Back on topic, I really hope Panasonic fix this issue OP mentioned. I'm in the market for a camera in the next month or so.

I substantially edited my previous post, if you haven't seen it, take a look. I would bet my life that Panasonic issues a firmware update very soon to address the issue with IBIS, and I think those who are returning their G80/85 cameras are making a big mistake. Several online reviewers who abandoned Panasonic for Sony lost me a long time ago, because not all of us have $3,000 lying around for a body only when Panasonic's flagship can be had for somewhere between $1,000 - $1,500, and not all of us require a camera that shoots one trillion ISO, and even the A6500 still lacks the battery life and articulating screen of the Panasonic. I would love to own the Fuji XT2 as well (beautiful build quality), but it also lacks articulating screen, has weak battery life and no IBIS. For now, I'm eyeing both Olympus and Panasonic. I am however, expecting groans from the online community when they see how much Panasonic is going to charge for the GH5. I'm almost certain it is going to cost as much as Sony's A7 cameras. Brace yourselves for a shock.

Edit (again!): I realize that many readers here are all excited about the 10-bit of the upcoming GH5, but those of us who don't do heavy grading, or who don't own super-duper monitors, or who just publish stuff for the web (YouTube) probably won't see any benefit, but we'll be paying a hefty premium for it nonetheless. If you haven't already done so, you should check out a recent video of Dave Dugdale's, where he invites Matthew Scott to chime in about the value of 10 bit. 

[tugela]

so, basically you are complaining that the camera is too effective at stabilizing the image? Because that is what is causing that jerking motion on panning. If it is reduced, so will the overall effectiveness of stabilization. You can choose a solid image without panning, or a wobbly image that can be panned. Which is more important? The camera does not know the difference between motion you intend and motion you don't intend.

I guess you could always turn the stabilization off.

[Michael Ma]

1 hour ago, tugela said:

so, basically you are complaining that the camera is too effective at stabilizing the image? Because that is what is causing that jerking motion on panning. If it is reduced, so will the overall effectiveness of stabilization. You can choose a solid image without panning, or a wobbly image that can be panned. Which is more important? The camera does not know the difference between motion you intend and motion you don't intend.

I guess you could always turn the stabilization off.

If that's the case, the problem is the GX85 provides far superior stabilization for video.