classic digital

[Liam]

last new topic for the day, I promise.

Sometimes I’m just a sucker for a small sensor and oversharpening... I think Shameless (UK) looks amazing (no idea what it’s filmed on). Same with It’s Always Sunny (dvx100). Any suggestions for cameras with this charm? Just out of curiosity? Possibly some mini-dv... Or are there other flavors of charming digital you want to make me or anyone aware of? Maybe just workflow tips - digital noise overlays, low DR curves, etc? If anyone else even shares the opinion that crappy digital can be sexy

[mercer]

Small sensor camcorders can look great. So can point and shoot cameras. The canon s100 is a sweet little camera with a very generic look. With AF and AE Lock, you really can control your footage more so than you would think. 

[Hans Punk]

Mini DV can look awesome these days - as an aesthetic choice for an appropriate subject.

I was recently digging through some old rushes from my Pd-170 and VX-1000, and it actually dawned on me that the 4x3 footage looked 'fresh' in a strange kind of way.

I'm surprised hipster kids have not used them more for tone-poem video projects. Think the secret would be to use these older cameras on full-auto settings, to get the crappiest image possible - then to completely embrace that.

It's very cheap now to buy an old hi-8 / minidv/ s-vhs camera for a suitable project (and a cheap capture card to ingest into computer). No overlays, post treatment will get higher quality footage degraded in quite the same way...it all looks fake. 

I'd say if you want a good looking low-fi video look...shoot it on low-fi video. 

Some of my favourite music videos and documentaries were shot on DV....back in the day when creativity and originality still existed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[noone]

Not exactly what you are after I think but I think you might have fun playing around with a Pentax Q for video.        Interchangeable lens camera with a tiny sensor so even a legacy 50mm lens is almost a super tele.

I wish I had tried mine for video before it died.

[jonpais]

7 hours ago, mercer said:

Small sensor camcorders can look great. So can point and shoot cameras. The canon s100 is a sweet little camera with a very generic look. With AF and AE Lock, you really can control your footage more so than you would think. 

My very first video was shot on the Canon S100 pocket camera (720p).

[mercer]

8 hours ago, jonpais said:

My very first video was shot on the Canon S100 pocket camera (720p).

The funny thing is... That video looks really good. I've always felt some of the small sensor point and shoots have some kind of unquantifiable soul to their IQ. For your first video, you should be proud of that. 

8 hours ago, noone said:

Not exactly what you are after I think but I think you might have fun playing around with a Pentax Q for video.        Interchangeable lens camera with a tiny sensor so even a legacy 50mm lens is almost a super tele.

I wish I had tried mine for video before it died.

I had a Q7 for a little while last year. It was my first test of using D-mount and c-mount lenses in the digital world. Unfortunately, there are some issues with Pentax video, namely rolling shutter that seems to affect the entire frame and not just vertical straight lines on trees or buildings, but the Q cameras are a bunch of fun.

 

[noone]

I used to love mount the Q onto my Canon 85 1.2, that camera was the most fun (though it is just a small sensor camera).      

[mercer]

On a tripod with small movements it looks okay. That is dialed down neutral profile video sooc, so it could do with a little adjusting, but I shot this before I had FCPX and before I ever thought about correction/grading. 

8 minutes ago, noone said:

I used to love mount the Q onto my Canon 85 1.2, that camera was the most fun (though it is just a small sensor camera).

Thanks @Liam for posting this. 

I was just talking with my friend about shooting with old camcorders and point and shoots and small sensor cameras and how liberating it was because, even though the imagery looked good, it kinda didn't too and that was part of the charm... It became about the story and quickly getting the shots without worrying about the technical element of cinematography so much. 

I used to love using old Kern D-mount lenses on my Q7... Instant vintage look. 

[Liam]

26 minutes ago, mercer said:

On a tripod with small movements it looks okay. That is dialed down neutral profile video sooc, so it could do with a little adjusting, but I shot this before I had FCPX and before I ever thought about correction/grading. 

Thanks @Liam for posting this. 

I was just talking with my friend about shooting with old camcorders and point and shoots and small sensor cameras and how liberating it was because, even though the imagery looked good, it kinda didn't too and that was part of the charm... It became about the story and quickly getting the shots without worrying about the technical element of cinematography so much. 

I used to love using old Kern D-mount lenses on my Q7... Instant vintage look. 

yeah, it's really interesting to me. I was watching this latest season of american horror story and really bummed that the 2/3 inch sensor, servo zooms that would usually be a given for some of that was all replaced by alexas. partially it's that you need to rely on your skills more, but I also just really like bad digital. Puffy Chair is another great example. suuper cheap cameras. beautiful

[mercer]

2 minutes ago, Liam said:

yeah, it's really interesting to me. I was watching this latest season of american horror story and really bummed that the 2/3 inch sensor, servo zooms that would usually be a given for some of that was all replaced by alexas. partially it's that you need to rely on your skills more, but I also just really like bad digital. Puffy Chair is another great example. suuper cheap cameras. beautiful

Yeah, but at the time, the Brothers Duplass were using the best Mini DV they could get. And I think that's the lesson, use the best you can get, but use it to its strengths. Hell, you could probably go get a DVX100 for less than 500 bucks and shoot an awesome movie with it... You may even be revered for doing so. Look how much street cred Ed gets for doing his hipster video tests.

To add, I personally wouldn't mess with mini DV tape now because it literally takes forever to ingest into the computer, but there are definitely some other options that would give a similar look, using SD cards. Just look for a cam with 3 CCDs instead of a CMOS sensor, I'm contemplating buying a point and shoot and making a short with one just to take all of the technical headaches away... I will probably call it Point & Shoot as well. Lol. But I'm serious. I may look to one of the old Panasonic P&S cameras like the LX7... That little camera made some cool ass video in the mjpeg codec.  

[fuzzynormal]

You can get all sorts of cool old cameras on eBay for not a lot.  Those early Panasonic cameras with their proprietary SS drives? P2 was it?  Maybe look those up.  Probably only a few hundred bucks or so.

24 minutes ago, Liam said:

really bummed that the 2/3 inch sensor, servo zooms that would usually be a given for some of that was all replaced by alexas.

Man, I shot an unashamedly horrible joke-horror movie on a XH-A1 years ago.  Such a bad movie.  I love it.  Not only for how truly Corman-esque it was, but the fact that it was shot on a small sensor camera.  Looked good, in a bad way.  Or is it bad in a good way?

[Tim Sewell]

Quote

But I'm serious. I may look to one of the old Panasonic P&S cameras like the LX7... That little camera made some cool ass video in the mjpeg codec.

LX7 was the first video-capable camera I ever bought and is ultimately responsible for the GH4/FS700/XC10-sized holes in my bank account. I was (and still am) blown away by the quality of the video you can get from it - although a fair bit of the credit for that has to go to the 1.4 lens. You can still get them - I bought one for my daughter last Christmas as her first 'proper' camera - but they're fewer and further between. Mine, which has been our family camera of choice for outings etc for several years now, has a stuck lens at present that I'm hoping to get repaired.

 

Edit to add - and it has a 3 step ND built in!

[mercer]

5 minutes ago, Tim Sewell said:

LX7 was the first video-capable camera I ever bought and is ultimately responsible for the GH4/FS700/XC10-sized holes in my bank account. I was (and still am) blown away by the quality of the video you can get from it - although a fair bit of the credit for that has to go to the 1.4 lens. You can still get them - I bought one for my daughter last Christmas as her first 'proper' camera - but they're fewer and further between. Mine, which has been our family camera of choice for outings etc for several years now, has a stuck lens at present that I'm hoping to get repaired.

 

Edit to add - and it has a 3 step ND built in!

I'm out of "Likes" for the day, so consider this reply as me liking your comment. 

Honestly, I used to have fun shooting video. I just got the shot the scene required and I moved on. Now I am so worried about this technical element and that technical element that every creative element I used to prioritize I am now, instead, resting on my laurels.

I only recently started enjoying it again when I got my D5500. I think I went into it not expecting much and I was pleasantly surprised with what I ended up with. 

To address your comment though, I had the FS or FX something... It was the model under the LX5 and I loved the video out of it. The b&w footage was beautiful, that step zoom function was great and you could take it anywhere and shoot a scene or get b-roll. Does the LX7 have 24p? 

20 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

You can get all sorts of cool old cameras on eBay for not a lot.  Those early Panasonic cameras with their proprietary SS drives? P2 was it?  Maybe look those up.  Probably only a few hundred bucks or so.

Man, I shot an unashamedly horrible joke-horror movie on a XH-A1 years ago.  Such a bad movie.  I love it.  Not only for how truly Corman-esque it was, but the fact that it was shot on a small sensor camera.  Looked good, in a bad way.  Or is it bad in a good way?

Would love to see that... I love old Corman movies. Is it online anywhere?

[Tim Sewell]

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

Does the LX7 have 24p? 

I'm about to go out trick-or-treating (groan!) with my 2 youngest, but I'll have a look this evening and get back to you.

[mercer]

29 minutes ago, Tim Sewell said:

I'm about to go out trick-or-treating (groan!) with my 2 youngest, but I'll have a look this evening and get back to you.

Thanks Tim, I appreciate it. 

[BenEricson]

18 hours ago, Hans Punk said:

I was recently digging through some old rushes from my Pd-170 and VX-1000, and it actually dawned on me that the 4x3 footage looked 'fresh' in a strange kind of way.

The Sony Vx1000 is still extremely popular in the skate community. The 4:3 aspect fisheye is wider and the model built for that is a better than any other camera ever. Really nice audio and the color has a filmy kind of highlight roll. Nice looking warm colors. Here's a piece I did, mixed with S8 and 16mm.

 

 

[tweak]

Vx1000 is pretty timeless, also has a nice mic for skating.

Liam, you like the shitty aspect? or just the deep depth of field aspect? As I was shooting ML Raw a bit lately with a very low res (small amount of sensor) and you can get some pretty cool deep DOF shots with that.

[Liam]

9 minutes ago, tweak said:

Vx1000 is pretty timeless, also has a nice mic for skating.

Liam, you like the shitty aspect? or just the deep depth of field aspect? As I was shooting ML Raw a bit lately with a very low res (small amount of sensor) and you can get some pretty cool deep DOF shots with that.

Some of each. I like the idea of embracing some weird camera that you enjoy. Like embracing the reeally weird sensor size of the bmcc or allowing for some rolling shutter on the kinemax, but in all other way.. it's a freakin kinemax! But also, yeah , I love 2/3 inch sensor or just anything that could give it style in a non-traditional or often laughed at way. Noticeably automatic controls, interlacing, anything. Partially thinking for a specific film, but just curious what people have to say, or looking to see this be more of a trend. Film is preferred by many because it made some nice film in the past, has some charm, but really should be the same with classic video. Also might be overthinking it though. Any cheap camera can be this style of fun. Did some messing with my old cheap generic gopro type thing.. the weird weeeird grain it has is kind of awesome

[tweak]

This was the first try I had messing around with trying to simulate 8mm.

Here's a video I edited a few years back now from footage I got my friends to shoot of me (who don't really know how to shoot) on a shitty handycam. I also like the crappy aspect of it, I think it's kind of a sentimental thing (it was my first camera).
 

 

[IronFilm]

On 10/30/2016 at 0:18 PM, Hans Punk said:

Mini DV can look awesome these days - as an aesthetic choice for an appropriate subject.

I was recently digging through some old rushes from my Pd-170 and VX-1000, and it actually dawned on me that the 4x3 footage looked 'fresh' in a strange kind of way.

I'm surprised hipster kids have not used them more for tone-poem video projects. Think the secret would be to use these older cameras on full-auto settings, to get the crappiest image possible - then to completely embrace that.

It's very cheap now to buy an old hi-8 / minidv/ s-vhs camera for a suitable project (and a cheap capture card to ingest into computer). No overlays, post treatment will get higher quality footage degraded in quite the same way...it all looks fake. 

I'd say if you want a good looking low-fi video look...shoot it on low-fi video. 

Some of my favourite music videos and documentaries were shot on DV....back in the day when creativity and originality still existed.

 

 

Love this "The Hardest Button to Button" music video! I'm guessing there was no compositing done? As that would be the way you'd do it today. 

As I imagined you needed a **LOT** of extra gear for props!! And compositing that nowadays would massively reduce down how much you'd need.