The mainstream media needs to be destroyed, and we need to do it.

[Jonesy Jones]

2 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

FWIW, I'm saying the race/nationality thing is irrelevant.  Humanity can be awful all around.  One race doesn't hold moral superiority over any other in these regards.  So, rather than parse the statement of what was said and/or inferred, for me, the shock is that any sort of that rhetoric would come from a potential (and now actual) POTUS.  A POTUS should know better.

(keep in mind Clinton and Obama have been pilloried for insensitive rhetoric too. "Deplorables" and "clinging to guns or religion")

I don't like it that Trump either 1) doesn't know what he said is a bigoted thing to say or 2) doesn't care and used rhetoric as a cynical ploy for voters.

I'm not sure, but I believe Trump's quote was something like, "Mexico, they're not sending people like you.  They're sending drug dealers and rapist.  Maybe some of them, I assume, are good people."  I see an implication there.  If you don't, I suppose that's your prerogative, but it bothers me.

Of course, my bias of Trump's rhetoric of bigotry was later solidified when he went off on that judge of Mexican heritage too.

BTW, are you aware that legal "Trump School" case is going to shake out here in San Diego?

 

Fuzzy, thanks for that level headed response. I've always considered you a friend and I don't want to make an enemy here. I have/am attempting to be a peacemaker. 

I just read this quote from another thread, and for me it's perfect. If you don't understand this, you'll never get Trump.

Quote

"I think one thing that should be distinguished here is that the media is always taking Trump literally. It never takes him seriously, but it always takes him literally. ... I think a lot of voters who vote for Trump take Trump seriously but not literally, so when they hear things like the Muslim comment or the wall comment, their question is not, 'Are you going to build a wall like the Great Wall of China?' or, you know, 'How exactly are you going to enforce these tests?' What they hear is we're going to have a saner, more sensible immigration policy." - Peter Thiel

The other thing that I think needs to accompany this is that Trump doesn't talk like a Politician, and I find it absolutely refreshing. I can only speak for myself, but I HATE listening to politicians. I would guess most here hate Trump's talk more, but not me. For some reason I kinda get him. He reminds me of my dad, who will say awkward things sometimes, but came from a poverty stricken childhood, worked hard, and is currently a millionaire (but wasn't while I was in the household, darn :)). He means only good and is super generous. But his way of talking can rub people wrong sometimes. 

Also, Trump is not afraid to call the kettle black. Here is another quote.

Quote

Trump reminded him of a doctor with no bedside manner. He tells you that you need to lose 100 pounds and stop smoking. You’re offended, you’re angry, you come up with 10 reasons why he’s crazy…and then you finally realize that he’s the only one telling you the truth.

Lastly, believe it or not, I think there was some method to his madness. In an interview about a year ago, Trump hinted that his way of talking would smooth out if he won. I guess we'll see.

I completely get why you and others don't like what Trump says. I'd prefer he phrase things differently too. But I get him, or at least I think I do. Or at least I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Damphousse]

3 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

I'm not in the US, neither do I vote, but if I could have voted in these elections, I'd voted for trump just to see all these whiny liberal preachers cry. Those kind of people who say that I have to feel guilty because I'm white and have a penis,etc... bla bla, Fuck you preachers, I never listened to the priests, I'm not going to listen to some little liberal kid, after all tora students, protestants, marxists, and these new millenial postmodern garbage are all the same kind of people, cocksuckers.

This is what probably most trump voters thought when they voted for trump, so the fault lies in the new pseudo left who has nothing to offer to the real people.

This new left has alienated people to such degree that they are voting for the most corrupt and reactionary politicians possible, and will not protest against them. 

 

 

Reminds me of one of our new president's very first tweets...

 

 

So just to be clear.  You are allegedly a billionaire.  You have tons of healthy well educated wealthy kids.  You have a much younger submissive trophy wife.  You are of the most favored gender, religion, and ethnicity in the richest country in the world.  You have your own gigantic jet.  Oh, and you were just given the keys to the White House.  And your response... VERY UNFAIR!

Seriously?  You are a victim, Trump?  I'll swap with you buddy.

 

[Stanley]

@Ki Rin....You may also find this interesting. I've only been an observer to the elections in the USA as I live on the other side of the world (Same place John Pilger comes from actually) so I have been at the mercy of our media telling us what they want us to see and hear.

Maybe for the first time ever Australia has led the way with regards to the way people are starting vote, and wanting to see the newly elected replaced soon after they have come to power.If this happens in the States, we will see the slow demise of the major parties, and the rise of independents and smaller parties holding the balance of power and blocking legislation if it doesn't suit their agenda.

Anyway, I find Pilger always worth listening to regardless of if people agree with him or not 

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/28/inside-the-invisible-government-war-propaganda-clinton-trump/

[Liam]

1 hour ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Has Trump said "all Mexican immigrants are rapists?"

He didn't have to. It's impossible that you thought he meant "there are rapists of every nationality, which must mean a handful of mexican immagrants have also been rapists, though generally we are all the same, and there are mexican immagrants I would be proud to call my friend"... He said his racist thing, you can't defend it. Wasn't the only instance. And we, as straight white men, don't get to say he's forgiven for all his shit.

[fuzzynormal]

19 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

This is what probably most trump voters thought when they voted for trump

I wouldn't disagree with that.  I have my own views regarding identity politics, and I wish we were all more inclusive of each other, but I'm also not so naive to recognize that's there's a real backlash against the "thought police" thing.  Americans are nothing if not assumptive that we're all individuals. 

[Jonesy Jones]

13 minutes ago, Liam said:

And we, as straight white men, don't get to say he's forgiven for all his shit.

Wow, what kind of racist stereotypical sexually oriented statement is this? And for what it's worth, I'm not white. I'm German American.

[Liam]

2 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Wow, what kind of racist stereotypical sexually oriented statement is this? And for what it's worth, I'm not white. I'm German American.

... we, those not directly insulted time and time again or otherwise abused, by trump. I'm sure it's real tough being German, dude

[fuzzynormal]

19 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I can only speak for myself, but I HATE listening to politicians.

Oh, I think you can speak for at least about half of Americans with that sentiment.  

Make no mistake, POTUS campaigning is a game of rhetoric.  Clinton is not good at it, which is why she was unable to turn out the vote.  She only needed to convince about 1 outta 200 voters in the swing states to win enough electoral votes.  More absurd rhetoric and concerted outreach to uneducated rust-belt whites would have helped her, to be honest.  A little more verve with some "I'll totally create jobs for you, absolutely!" stuff.

On the other hand, that's not who she is.  She knows coal is doomed, for instance, so why promise jobs to the sector?  Things like that.  Pragmatism in a campaign is not a good strategy. It's noble and honest, but not a winning game.

And really, I'm not going to poo-poo Trump in everything.  He gets a chance from me.  A very very skeptical chance, but a legit one.  He's talking about an infrastructure WPA-type program.  Which seems like that would make the GOP's leader's heads explode, so we'll see.

Totally bummed about the SCOTUS thing though.

[Jonesy Jones]

Just now, Liam said:

... we, those not directly insulted time and time again or otherwise abused, by trump. I'm sure it's real tough being German, dude

My internet is so slow that your comment beat my edited in smiley face. 

Look, we get it. You hate Trump. I like him. You think he's a racist. I don't. What should we do now?

7 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Oh, I think you can speak for at least about half of Americans with that sentiment.  

Make no mistake, POTUS campaigning is a game of rhetoric.  Clinton is not good at it, which is why she was unable to turn out the vote.  She only needed to convince about 1 outta 200 voters in the swing states to win enough electoral votes.  More absurd rhetoric and concerted outreach to uneducated rust-belt whites would have helped her, to be honest.  A little more verve with some "I'll totally create jobs for you, absolutely!" stuff.

On the other hand, that's not who she is.  She knows coal is doomed, for instance, so why promise jobs to the sector?  Things like that.  Pragmatism in a campaign is not a good strategy. It's noble and honest, but not a winning game.

And really, I'm not going to poo-poo Trump in everything.  He gets a chance from me.  A very very skeptical chance, but a legit one.  He's talking about an infrastructure WPA-type program.  Which seems like that would make the GOP's leader's heads explode, so we'll see.

Totally bummed about the SCOTUS thing though.

Love you man. 

[Richard Bugg]

There is an old legal principle called 'The Plain Meaning Rule" which is basically that people say what they mean, and they mean what they say. It's interesting to see the contortions some people are going to to say that Trump didn't, in fact, mean what he said, or that what he said was just a code for something much more palatable. While a lot of people are trying to convince themselves that Trump doesn't really mean what he has said, many others are fearful that he does indeed mean what he has said. I recall some similar commentary when Rodrigo Duterte came to power recently in the Phillipines, promising a spate of extrajudicial killings for anyone involved in the drug trade. It turns out that good old Rodrigo did in fact mean what he said. The jury is out with Trump, because nobody actually has any idea of what he is going to do. The American people have unleashed the unknown onto the rest of us. Let the experiment begin.

[Damphousse]

12 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Oh, I think you can speak for at least about half of Americans with that sentiment.  

Make no mistake, POTUS campaigning is a game of rhetoric.  Clinton is not good at it, which is why she was unable to turn out the vote.  She only needed to convince about 1 outta 200 voters in the swing states to win enough electoral votes.  More absurd rhetoric and concerted outreach to uneducated rust-belt whites would have helped her, to be honest.  A little more verve with some "I'll totally create jobs for you, absolutely!" stuff.

On the other hand, that's not who she is.  She knows coal is doomed, for instance, so why promise jobs to the sector?  Things like that.  Pragmatism in a campaign is not a good strategy. It's noble and honest, but not a winning game.

And really, I'm not going to poo-poo Trump in everything.  He gets a chance from me.  A very very skeptical chance, but a legit one.  He's talking about an infrastructure WPA-type program.  Which seems like that would make the GOP's leader's heads explode, so we'll see.

Totally bummed about the SCOTUS thing though.

 

Amazing post.  You hit the nail on the head.  America is in deep trouble.  It is really tough to run for president.  What do you do?  Tell the truth?  You do and you lose.  Lie to the people?  Well when you win now you have to fulfill your promises.

I will tell the truth about Trump and call out all the racist, sexist, xenophobic, and fascist things he says.  But in the end I have no choice but to root for his success.  His success really is our success.

Yeah and the SCOTUS thing is going to be messed up.  Some people in the Senate have already spoken about going to war over nominees.  Sad the Republicans could have given Obama one appointee and possibly gotten three in return.  Now at least one Senator laid out some crazy revenge plan where Trump gets no appointments.

Everything I'm hearing is the Republicans will stop caring about the debt now and we are going to go trillions more into a hole.  Tax cuts, infrastructure spending, military, wall, VA, and who knows what else.  Interest rates are already shooting up.  Ten year is over 2%.

[Liam]

6 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

My internet is so slow that your comment beat my edited in smiley face. 

Look, we get it. You hate Trump. I like him. You think he's a racist. I don't. What should we do now?

Love you man. 

Fair enough! I'll let my black brother and gay sister know that Jonesy and I decided we agree to disagree

[Amook]

I have to say this thread and Ed Davids other thread are ruining eoshd for me. This was my safe space from the political talk. He's now brought his hate and bias into this forum. I'm out....

[Damphousse]

4 minutes ago, Amook said:

I have to say this thread and Ed Davids other thread are ruining eoshd for me. This was my safe space from the political talk. He's now brought his hate and bias into this forum. I'm out....

This is a forum for storytellers.  Seems odd not to talk about the biggest story perhaps of our lifetimes.  Honestly if you are making movies about people or for people it is nice to know what they are thinking and feeling.  At a time like this it seems silly to just sit around and talk about specs. The last few days really put a lot into perspective for me.

Honestly some of the Trump supporter arguments remind me of other arguments we've had on here.  For example there is a contingent on this forum that think if Canon came out with a 4k mirrorless camera they would return to their glory days.  To me that is like Trump people saying build a wall and everything will go back to the way it used to be.  For a lot of this election I bought into the narrative that Trump voters are racist.  Well a lot may be racially insensitive but more truly motivated by an irrational belief Trump can bring their jobs back.  I don't think that people who think Canon can return to its glory days with a 4k mirrorless camera are racist.  I just think they are being irrational.

The biggest story of this election is people (pollsters, big media, Democrats) did not listen to the stories of white non college educated people in the upper midwest.  If the pollsters and Democrats don't take a hard look at the people who voted for Obama twice and then voted for Trump they are going to miss one of the biggest lessons from this whole unfortunate episode.  There is a documentary in there somewhere.

 

[mercer]

3 hours ago, mercer said:

 

So saying that some illegal aliens are rapists and murderers is racist? 

[Damphousse]

 

Quote

For six years, Republicans have sought every possible way to kill the landmark health law — bringing failed lawsuits and waging unwinnable legislative fights that a Democratic president could always veto. Now that the stars have aligned to allow them to do it, they can’t agree on how to proceed.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/gop-obamacare-rift-231272

Oh, boy.  Here we go.  I guess running your mouth and wasting millions of tax payer dollars on lawsuits is a lot easier than actually running a country.

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

So saying that some illegal aliens are rapists and murderers is racist? 

When you shoot scenes for movies or commercials do you usually do them with no context?  Is that more effective?

[User]

15 minutes ago, Amook said:

I have to say this thread and Ed Davids other thread are ruining eoshd for me. This was my safe space from the political talk. He's now brought his hate and bias into this forum. I'm out....

Well said.

[Richard Bugg]

1 hour ago, Nikkor said:

I'm not in the US, neither do I vote, but if I could have voted in these elections, I'd voted for trump just to see all these whiny liberal preachers cry. Those kind of people who say that I have to feel guilty because I'm white and have a penis,etc... bla bla, Fuck you preachers, I never listened to the priests, I'm not going to listen to some little liberal kid, after all tora students, protestants, marxists, and these new millenial postmodern garbage are all the same kind of people, cocksuckers.

This is what probably most trump voters thought when they voted for trump, so the fault lies in the new pseudo left who has nothing to offer to the real people.

This new left has alienated people to such degree that they are voting for the most corrupt and reactionary politicians possible, and will not protest against them. 

 

 

Given the tenor of your commentary and the current political zeitgeist, I could easily see you securing a swag of votes at the next election. With a few tweaks here and there to spice it up a bit, this could almost pass for a campaign launch speech. Considering a tilt at high office Nikkor?

[tigerbengal]

5 hours ago, Ed_David said:

No Mercer, read my original post.  I don't mention Bernie.  Hillary Clinton, the person I voted for and supported with videos and get out the vote, got a third of the coverage that Trump did.

Here's what I wrote:

"The media gave him coverage during the primaries. Nonstop coverage. Waited on him to speak. "Did you hear what he said?" "Did you hear what he tweeted?" Put on the screen his rallies even before he got on the stage. While they gave a third of that coverage to Hillary Clinton, the best choice in defeating the monster."

 

Media bias -  there's a lot of good docs about this:

Manufacturing Consent, a doc about Noam Chomsky.  Explains mainstream media bias and censorship.  Or Glenn Greenwald just talked about this on Democracy Now.  

Every piece of storytelling - and that's all the news is - storytelling - has bias.  How an article can write about a candidate.

Hillary Clinton was a serious candidate. So was Jeb Bush, John Kasich, Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, Bernie Sanders.

A lot of serious candidates who deserved more airtime than a man who said Mexico was sending to America their rapists.

 

Do you think we should give David Duke, the head of the KKK, more airtime? 

Ed I understand what you said and I am with you but there is more to this that only the media......This was the perfect storm I can say

First we can blame President Obama for this, he was a good president yes I like him, but he was too man to deal with THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THIS GUYS ARE EVIL, THEY OPPOSED everthing Obama tried to do for the American People, at the end it worked for them, Obama failed to connect with white working class, Why Obama decided to talk with the Castros bros? he had good intentions, I get it, but he made mad some old cubans and that is why Hillary lost Florida...and last Obama did a BIG MISTAKE appointing Comey for FBI head, this guy Comey showed he is a republican, he put his party over the nation and play the game he was told by republicans to damage Hillary.

Then Hillary mistakes....the over rated email server...now is worst the email server thing that so far haven't killed anybody than all the bad things Trump has done over the years...trump only cares about trump and his family, he is 70 he is not gonna change....then Huma Abedin's husband....Hillary should had replaced her after the first sex scandal...now is too late.

Then the white people who live in central , south us they live in a different reality, they watch 24/7 Fox News, they heard hate radio programs like Rush Limbaugh etc, and now they have a lot of White supremacist websites like Breitbart who spread lies and hate all over the place , this website and others have a real ARMY OF TROLLS who spread all their lies in social media sites like facebook, newspapers , attack people too etc..

The crude reality is THAT SCANDAL IS WHAT makes money now...see Kardashians, the apprentice etc, that is why trump was on the news all day, for him there is no bad or good media coverage....everything was media coverage for trump...his supporters sees him like a Messiah..someone who will remove all the political corruption in Washington, but what about his transition team? the same old people from the Republican party, no change...

We need a new leader to rise at the Democratic party, Bernie Sanders could be, my only concern with him is his age, but he is good, who knows....

Hard times are coming, we have to stay together and fight hard...THAT IS OUR ONLY HOPE

 

 

[mercer]

2 minutes ago, tigerbengal said:

Ed I understand what you said and I am with you but there is more to this that only the media......This was the perfect storm I can say

First we can blame President Obama for this, he was a good president yes I like him, but he was too man to deal with THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THIS GUYS ARE EVIL, THEY OPPOSED everthing Obama tried to do for the American People, at the end it worked for them, Obama failed to connect with white working class, Why Obama decided to talk with the Castros bros? he had good intentions, I get it, but he made mad some old cubans and that is why Hillary lost Florida...and last Obama did a BIG MISTAKE appointing Comey for FBI head, this guy Comey showed he is a republican, he put his party over the nation and play the game he was told by republicans to damage Hillary.

Then Hillary mistakes....the over rated email server...now is worst the email server thing that so far haven't killed anybody than all the bad things Trump has done over the years...trump only cares about trump and his family, he is 70 he is not gonna change....then Huma Abedin's husband....Hillary should had replaced her after the first sex scandal...now is too late.

Then the white people who live in central , south us they live in a different reality, they watch 24/7 Fox News, they heard hate radio programs like Rush Limbaugh etc, and now they have a lot of White supremacist websites like Breitbart who spread lies and hate all over the place , this website and others have a real ARMY OF TROLLS who spread all their lies in social media sites like facebook, newspapers , attack people too etc..

The crude reality is THAT SCANDAL IS WHAT makes money now...see Kardashians, the apprentice etc, that is why trump was on the news all day, for him there is no bad or good media coverage....everything was media coverage for trump...his supporters sees him like a Messiah..someone who will remove all the political corruption in Washington, but what about his transition team? the same old people from the Republican party, no change...

We need a new leader to rise at the Democratic party, Bernie Sanders could be, my only concern with him is his age, but he is good, who knows....

Hard times are coming, we have to stay together and fight hard...THAT IS OUR ONLY HOPE

 

 

This is more ridiculous than ed's original post.