HDR on Youtube - next big thing? Requirements?

[jonpais]

VESA has announced badly needed guidelines for (LCD) HDR monitors - one problem being, they’ve created three tiers, and the lowest one is so lax, your current monitor probably qualifies as HDR already. Another issue, as I see it, is that the top tier specifies 1000 nits, which is probably overdoing things for a monitor you’ll be seated only a couple feet away from. Finally, creating several levels is only going to create confusion. Still no criteria for OLED displays

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[jonpais]

A must read - are production monitors good enough for use as reference monitors for HDR? What are the major differences between the two? Can you grade HDR on an 8-bit display with only 10 stops of dynamic range? 

Mystery Box

[kidzrevil]

@jonpais its a huge mystery. HDR10, HLG , DOLBY VISION...they need to settle on a standard. We are just now getting fully compliant with rec709 standards. I hope it doesn’t take manufacturers as long as it did with rec709 to crossover to hdr and settle on a standard

[jonpais]

@kidzrevil Most sets coming out now should play back all three - the tv recognizes the format, we don’t have to do anything. None of us will be shooting or grading Dolby Vision, firstly, bcs we can’t afford to buy a license. ? So that pretty much leaves two (more or less!): one for live broadcast with sort of backward compatibility (HLG), and one for everything else. Until something new comes along next year. hehe  FCP X 10.4 also handles all three options: PQ for Dolby Vision and HDR10, and HLG. 

I got the Ninja Inferno last week, but I’ve still got to get something sturdy to mount it to the cage. I’m looking into the BMD Decklink at the moment and I’ll probably end up purchasing LUTs from Mystery Box to work with the Inferno. Then we’ll see how it goes. 

[Axel]

5 hours ago, jonpais said:

A must read - are production monitors good enough for use as reference monitors for HDR? What are the major differences between the two? Can you grade HDR on an 8-bit display with only 10 stops of dynamic range? 

Mystery Box

Are these solutions good enough? And isn't good enough merely an euphemism for actually pretty bad? Time will tell. As we will get accustomed to see HDR images, we will later, probably years later, be prepared to compare and judge them. That makes early adopters brave pioneers. The more I learn through articles like these, I realize that my hopes of getting started with the bare minimum are naive fallacy. The point where I land with a smack is usually when someone introduces monitor calibration to the discussion. A long and winded rabbit hole with the conclusion that I can only come incrementally closer. Some colorist (van Hurkman? Hullfish?) said that to be aware of the problem was more valuable than to have access to a (sort of) perfectly calibrated monitor without an inkling of what that meant. In the FCP X thread you showed that it's by far not as easy to know all variables to keep the correct color space conversions (another horrifying term) in the 'pipeline' as it should be. I keep reading and commenting, but right now I feel confused and frustrated. I hope, not entirely unselfishly, that your efforts pay off and that you then can explain how you got there!

[jonpais]

Step-by-step - how to shoot and grade GH5s HDR.

https://www.mysterybox.us/blog/2018/1/8/panasonic-gh5s-hdr10

A couple of random observations: like just about every other tutorial on HDR, Mystery Box neglects to say what the options are for connecting a monitor to the computer. They also point out that correcting improper white balance in post can result in a loss of as many as two stops of dynamic range. And I found this nugget over at film convert’s blog:

5500K is the average colour temperature in Los Angeles and it was this temperature that was chosen for daylight fixtures due to Hollywood being the light manufacturers biggest market. In northern Europe, the average colour temperature of daylight is around 6500K, which is why that was chosen as the white reference point for the colour space that is defined by Rec.709, as the scientists who’s work laid the foundations for broadcast transmission were from northern Europe.

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[jonpais]

Some were saying that you needed to use something like the $2,500 USD AJA Io 4K Plus in order to work with the Ninja Inferno as a grading monitor for HDR. According to Mystery Box, not true! 

Samuel Bilodeau, responding to my comment over at his blog writes:

The Ninja is only a 1080 screen and doesn't read the HDMI metadata so you don't need the premium I/O connectors, just something that handles 1080. Then, add our LUT to grade in HDR10 with proper contrast.

Incidentally, he’s referring to grading Vlog L, not HLG.

 

[jonpais]

Eureka! I just uploaded my very first HDR video to YouTube. It's actually my 'Shooting Models at Night' clip, but in rec.2020. No color correction. No HDR monitor required. No expensive equipment or i/o stuff. Easy as pie! Of course, if you want to grade your work, you'll probably want to shoot V-Log and get an HDR monitor, but if you expose and white balance carefully, you can edit HLG and deliver to YT no problem. The video should be watched on an HDR capable television or smart phone. Colors aren't perfect by any means, but I'm still pretty excited.

"Hold Me Close" by Ryan Andersen
Creative Commons
 

[apekkpul]

Hi Jon.  I watched your video with my HDR-ready LG television by using the internal Youtube app that typically shows HDR content. I also watched the video by using the previous generation AppleTV (non HDR). I was not able to see difference in these videos. Maybe the metadata doesn’t trigger the HDR.

[jonpais]

30 minutes ago, apekkpul said:

Hi Jon.  I watched your video with my HDR-ready LG television by using the internal Youtube app that typically shows HDR content. I also watched the video by using the previous generation AppleTV (non HDR). I was not able to see difference in these videos. Maybe the metadata doesn’t trigger the HDR.

The HLG HDR flag appears in the upper right corner of my LG C7. I tested it numerous times.

[apekkpul]

@jonpais I have LG 49UH610V, and its Youtube app does not show HDR flag for any content (but other apps like Netflix and iPlayer do show HDR flags). I am not seeing in my TV similar DR  (?) as the above screenshot indicates. 

[Georgios]

LG tv's internal YouTube supports hdr only for 2017 models

[jonpais]

20 minutes ago, apekkpul said:

@jonpais I have LG 49UH610V, and its Youtube app does not show HDR flag for any content (but other apps like Netflix and iPlayer do show HDR flags). I am not seeing in my TV similar DR  (?) as the above screenshot indicates. 

Your television is not HDR, sorry to say. HDR Pro and HDR Effect are not true HDR. Your TV doesn't support HLG, HDR10 or Dolby Vision. 

[apekkpul]

HDR Pro = HDR10, according to

http://www.lg.com/us/experience-tvs/hdr/4k-hdr

[Digitaliant]

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

Eureka! I just uploaded my very first HDR video to YouTube. It's actually my 'Shooting Models at Night' clip, but in rec.2020. No color correction. No HDR monitor required. No expensive equipment or i/o stuff. Easy as pie! Of course, if you want to grade your work, you'll probably want to shoot V-Log and get an HDR monitor, but if you expose and white balance carefully, you can edit HLG and deliver to YT no problem. The video should be watched on an HDR capable television or smart phone. Colors aren't perfect by any means, but I'm still pretty excited.

 

I saw it with a LG 55B6V. No idea if the tv is HLG/HDR when i watch the youtube videos but it looks great.

I will try to download the file and upload it on a USB stick and watch if something changes.

[jonpais]

Workflow, FCP X v.10.4

[Axel]

12 hours ago, jonpais said:

Workflow, FCP X v.10.4

Have no GH5 

Have no HDR TV 

How do you judge things like midtones and saturation? Of course you can't see the DR on an iMac. But does the preview suffice? Just trust the scopes?

[jonpais]

@Axel In Preferences, check Show HDR as raw values, which will allow you to preview the clips. If I were going to do color correction, I would definitely shoot V-Log, and work in HDR10. Of course, you would then need an external monitor and third party hardware to connect it to your Mac. But if you plan on uploading HDR video to YouTube, the steps I posted are basically the same, regardless of whether you’re shooting RAW, Log or HLG. 

[jonpais]

I posted this video in another thread, but just to show that (1) HLG is capable of phenomenal image quality; (2) for us mere mortals not fortunate enough to sell a series to Netflix, YouTube is a great way to share HDR content; and (3) HDR is here to stay, I am re-posting it. Of course, it helps to view it on an HDR television!

 

[webrunner5]

Wow a little of that video goes a LONG ways. They ought to change the name of it to "Your mind on drugs"! Too over the top for me, but I get why they did it.

I am a little more into the BMPCC look than that look. Hmm. Wow some times progression maybe is not the best way to go. Sorry, just not my style I doubt ever. But I guess if you were 22 years old it works.