HDR on Youtube - next big thing? Requirements?

[jonpais]

@Axel I studied German for two years in college, but have forgotten almost everything. I had to use Google translate to read the thread. I’m guessing none of the commentors have ever watched a film on an OLED television? Lots of misunderstandings, like the one person who says something to the effect that he doesn’t want to watch a ‘bright’ movie at the theater, if I recall correctly. Some still don’t understand that when Dolby talks about 10,000 nit displays that those values would only affect the very brightest and tiniest areas of the screen, not the entire picture. As you mentioned earlier, laws regarding power consumption already force manufacturers to limit extremely bright areas to a small portion of the display and reduce overall brightness.

[Matthew Hartman]

3 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@Axel I studied German for two years in college, but have forgotten almost everything. I had to use Google translate to read the thread. I’m guessing none of the commentors have ever watched a film on an OLED television?

Not me. Just a phone and computer monitor. I should be investing in an 60" OLED HDR 10bit 4k TV though, I mean if I'm serious about this filmmaking stuff and being relevant in the future. ?

[jonpais]

7 minutes ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Not me. Just a phone and computer monitor. I should be investing in an 60" OLED HDR 10bit 4k TV though, I mean if I'm serious about this filmmaking stuff and being relevant in the future. ?

Yeah, I was referring to the forum members over at slashcam - but I think it makes sense as filmmakers to invest in a decent display. I also expect ppl in these forums to descend on me like hawks any time I make a reasonable statement.

[Matthew Hartman]

8 minutes ago, jonpais said:

 I also expect ppl in these forums to descend on me like hawks any time I make a reasonable statement.

I've seen you make several good points in this community and if others don't, or can't or are unwilling see that it doesn't diminish your wisdom one bit. Some people just haven't worked it out for themselves.

You've challenged one of my misconceptions about how the industry treated the NX1, and I thank you for helping me to become a more rational and less reactive being. 

There are some others here who are good people, but could use a little humility too.

[kidzrevil]

17 hours ago, Axel said:

Meanwhile on Germany's huge slashCAM forum. Started a controversial HDR thread there - the first one, apart from one guy who asked how best to achieve a working Youtube upload. Very few fans there as well. The usual suspects, like here. Said HDR would change the way films were lit and framed (finally understanding the vanHurkman thoughts). Was baracked. HDR was for nature docs and candy ads, not suitable for serious storytelling. Wrote, what about *light*? There is no light in SDR, only it's faint reflection. Answer (by a pro DoP): that's enough, brightness is relative. HDR is a gimmick like 3D was, and it will disappear just the same, get over it ...

Another article in the news section: UHD TVs bigger than 50" came to 40% of all houses in Germany in 2017, AUO announces 8k TVs for 2018 and projects 10% market share within two years ...

the first dp to use HDR as a storytelling device will generate some serious interest in the format by filmmakers. I myself have been eyeing how to use the hdr specular highlight feature but you have to map your whites specifically to a certain range. If I map my specular detail to 2000 nits but monitors only show 1000 its going to look weird. If I set it at 1000 and your monitor is at 2000 the image will look dim ! Its a big headache because of my lack of knowledge on how to implement it into my work but soon enough there is going to be that one DP that likes to experiment that will do great things with it. For now im still wrestling with viewers of my work that cant tell the difference between 1080 and 4k lmao

[Axel]

7 hours ago, jonpais said:

I’m guessing none of the commentors have ever watched a film on an OLED television? 

Exactly.

2 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

the first dp to use HDR as a storytelling device will generate some serious interest in the format by filmmakers. I myself have been eyeing how to use the hdr specular highlight feature but you have to map your whites specifically to a certain range. If I map my specular detail to 2000 nits but monitors only show 1000 its going to look weird. If I set it at 1000 and your monitor is at 2000 the image will look dim ! Its a big headache because of my lack of knowledge on how to implement it into my work but soon enough there is going to be that one DP that likes to experiment that will do great things with it. 

Yes. Let me cite myself from the german thread, translation by Google :

Quote

For the small, miserable wedding filmmaker like me, the advent of HDR-enabled devices means I have to take full advantage of the 0-100 dynamic, so the video layperson's score is not spontaneously rated poor quality ... 

An ambitious short film project I've been preparing for almost a year now wouldn't profit much of HDR, thankfully. But I have another one, a comic short on the agony of the dying, and this one would. Will then probably borrow an Ursa Mini to shoot the (few) scenes in raw. And I hope by then HDR monitoring for grading will have become more easy and affordable.

I wonder why Andrew Reid doesn't seem to be very interested in HDR. His videos are so 'impressionistic' and 'poetic' ...

[kidzrevil]

Im very interested in seeing what you come with  !! A short on the agony of dying sounds kinda cool im already seeing some high contrast shots in my head ! You ever try using ACES ? I’ve been playing with it with my Canon 5D raw footage. It seems to be a sure fire way to make sure your content is good to go for hdr and rec2020 spec @Axel

[Axel]

14 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

You ever try using ACES ? I’ve been playing with it with my Canon 5D raw footage. It seems to be a sure fire way to make sure your content is good to go for hdr and rec2020 spec @Axel

No, I have only a vague idea how to use ACES. Seems I have to learn this. Everything regarding 'color space conversion' and the like is black magic to me. Such as:

Quote

The aces and davinci resolve color management allow you to convert slog2 to HLG in floating point. SLOG already has the Dynamic Range for HDR it just has to be luminance mapped on output. You can youtube plenty of documentation on luminance mapping to HDR and nits 

I have no HDR monitor now, and I don't know how to connect my iMac (thunderbolt, no direct AV out through this port) to the TV. The officially supported interfaces are too expensive (starting at 2500 €). Easier with PCs? Could I buy a Windows laptop? 

[jonpais]

The Shogun Inferno works with the Blackmagic Ultrastudio Mini Monitor and 2016 MacBook Pro, Final Cut Pro. (SDI connector)

 

[Axel]

@jonpais

Are you satisfied with the solution so far? Can you judge the Image? Is there any benefit in using FCP without the "nits-scopes" (known bug, I asked)?

[jonpais]

3 minutes ago, Axel said:

@jonpais

Are you satisfied with the solution so far? Can you judge the Image? Is there any benefit in using FCP without the "nits-scopes" (known bug, I asked)?

I only tested it for a few seconds, and I haven’t tried out the ‘HDR’ function on the monitor yet; but while I believe I’ll be able to use the Shogun for grading, I’ve got a feeling I’ll have to use the scopes in Resolve. I don’t know whether there’s any way to convert IRE to nits - probably not.

[Axel]

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

I only tested it for a few seconds, and I haven’t tried out the ‘HDR’ function on the monitor yet; but while I believe I’ll be able to use the Shogun for grading, I’ve got a feeling I’ll have to use the scopes in Resolve. I don’t know whether there’s any way to convert IRE to nits - probably not.

Then you'd either have to buy the Studio version

or

convert your files to ProRes AND make do with 3840 (I'd do that if I were you)

or

wait a while and see if the sleepyheads at Apple get into gear and provide a bugfix.

[jonpais]

@Axel I’ll go with option 2. ? I wouldn’t count on Apple fixing the bug anytime soon, but who knows..