Advice Needed - Filmmaking Workshop

[Stanley]

Composure, Exposure,Shutter Speed, White balance.  

[Dan Wake]

sound design: let them see some foley artist video on youtube. they can try to rec some sound with theyr smartphone.

how to use a boompole.

some audio edit with protools or adobe audition.

 

[Trek of Joy]

One other thing I forgot, a simple three act story structure lesson. It's pretty easy to break down things like the inciting incident with examples from their favorite movies. 

Again get students to think critically about a story. 

[HelsinkiZim]

oook, so everything went... well, ok. Maybe I am being hard on myself, which I sometimes am, but there are things I would do different and it may be useful for any of you that want to try and package something like this for your own businesses.

Firstly, I took the advice of many of you and focused on storytelling to begin with. We had a generel discussion about the different types of story structures and then watched trailers from their favorite films and discussed what kind of structure(s) the films were trying to follow. I found that some films mix a couple of structures, and it was a very useful excersise for me too. That was fun!

However (secondly), eyes will glaze over if you get to specific about the technical aspects. If I could do it again I would just hand them one piece of paper with a list of maybe 10 golden rules, that they could research in their own time if the wanted to... maybe with some youtube links to related tutorials etc. That list would include my top-tip of doing a 'fast' check before pressing record (focus, aperture, shutter speed, temperature). Maybe even a few Herzog quotes and tips on headroom, law of 3rds, etc.

But I wouldn't talk about it at the table (I even had a doll set up and did excersises)... I would just get outside as soon as possible and let them shoot. (edit: ...again, many of you said this too and I can confirm you were spot on)

I realised this and shifted gear to getting them to write a simple story based on the story structures we discussed, and I was so suprised at how creative everyone was once I gave up my feeling of wanting to control everything.

We went out and I worked camera and they told me what to shoot, and they played different roles. Everyone got into this exercise and it should have been at the forefront of the workshop, not at the end. What I found is that when out and about, you can relay all the tech information with context and its great to see how they see their mistakes during the edit, and it then sinks in. I was super proud when one client actually said 'hmm, I think the iso was too high for that shot' as he pointed to the grain.

So, I would advise - have a storytelling basics workshop and then get everyone out to film something and give extra details to those who want to know more. Keep it simple.

I think I am going to explore this further as I am sensing a lot of interest in this sort of approach, and feel it could be good for corporate team building exercises and schools/ organisations. My plan is to invest in some phones like the Xperia M5 where you can control settings, and make the seminar about how to make your own films with your phone. Thinking, thinking, thinking...

Anyways, thanks for all your advice folks and please ask more questions if you need more info!

Here is a screenshot of my story notes, we didnt get to the rest (tech and lighting) and you all know the stuff anyways...

 

[Cinegain]

That used to be a pretty nice course back in the day. ~ https://www.creativelive.com/courses/vince_laforet including students who end up shooting stuff as well and learn and review what's right and wrong. The concept is there.

And indeed like I mentioned:

Quote

you can shoot something enjoyable on $0 budget and a potato, if that potato was used to tell a interesting and engaging story

[..] Technical information is always at your disposal. Ideas and creativity... they need to be sparked. It's much more the global understanding why one would do certain things a certain way, rather than knowing specific technical details.

 

[Liam]

I don't want to repeat myself too much, but I rarely enjoy people telling me how to tell a story.. they would have to be amazing at storytelling for that advice to matter. And the ones who know how to tell a story often say to figure it out for yourself or they make up advice that they don't even personally follow (and it ends up being a million different, opposing methods). "Story is important" is a fine lesson I suppose, or "This is what I do", but generally for people who want to make films I think the technical basics are actually where you should start. They're already authors, they just don't know how to use their pens. Either that or just flood them with filmmakers they should watch the films of and interviews etc. Or not even that. One of my favorite filmmakers mainly just reads a bunch of non fiction about space apparently. That's why it's so hard to give advice. Everyone is and should be different. Teach them the concrete stuff, and for everything else, just keep them interested/excited/exploring

Also, I forgot to list sound in my original topics. Sound.

[HelsinkiZim]

14 hours ago, Cinegain said:

That used to be a pretty nice course back in the day. ~ https://www.creativelive.com/courses/vince_laforet including students who end up shooting stuff as well and learn and review what's right and wrong. The concept is there.

And indeed like I mentioned:

 

Yeah, its not a new idea - but I was more inspired by Born into Brothels and I cant give the details of the project in genereral but it is a month long project more similar to what Zana did with the homeless children...

 

3 hours ago, Liam said:

I don't want to repeat myself too much, but I rarely enjoy people telling me how to tell a story.. they would have to be amazing at storytelling for that advice to matter. And the ones who know how to tell a story often say to figure it out for yourself or they make up advice that they don't even personally follow (and it ends up being a million different, opposing methods). "Story is important" is a fine lesson I suppose, or "This is what I do", but generally for people who want to make films I think the technical basics are actually where you should start. They're already authors, they just don't know how to use their pens. Either that or just flood them with filmmakers they should watch the films of and interviews etc. Or not even that. One of my favorite filmmakers mainly just reads a bunch of non fiction about space apparently. That's why it's so hard to give advice. Everyone is and should be different. Teach them the concrete stuff, and for everything else, just keep them interested/excited/exploring

Also, I forgot to list sound in my original topics. Sound.

Yep, we covered sound. Genereally what I was summising is that - theory indoors, tech in the field...

[Cinegain]

3 hours ago, Liam said:

I don't want to repeat myself too much, but I rarely enjoy people telling me how to tell a story.. they would have to be amazing at storytelling for that advice to matter. And the ones who know how to tell a story often say to figure it out for yourself or they make up advice that they don't even personally follow (and it ends up being a million different, opposing methods). "Story is important" is a fine lesson I suppose, or "This is what I do", but generally for people who want to make films I think the technical basics are actually where you should start. They're already authors, they just don't know how to use their pens. Either that or just flood them with filmmakers they should watch the films of and interviews etc. Or not even that. One of my favorite filmmakers mainly just reads a bunch of non fiction about space apparently. That's why it's so hard to give advice. Everyone is and should be different. Teach them the concrete stuff, and for everything else, just keep them interested/excited/exploring

Also, I forgot to list sound in my original topics. Sound.

I don't know. Like I said, you can read and learn about technical stuff online and in books. What are the general 'rules' for this and that. It's not not important to know, but it's a bit of a waste to have a (I don't know) 3 hour workshop on filmmaking and have to go through all of that. Just get some quick pointers out and move along. Having perfect gear with perfect set-ups does not a great filmmaker make however. So you can tie your shoe laces? Doesn't make you Usain Bolt; you know what I mean? It's what you do with it. It's the passion behind it.

It's more about showing them techniques and how you can approach things. It's not telling them what to do, it's showing them what they can do. Just give 'em a palette. Everything is optional. It's like a free spirited cooking class. There's a bunch of ingredients in the kitchen and everyone is free to put 'em together. Just, there are some general experiences with what works really really well and what doesn't so much, so you can go and invent the wheel all over again, or you can taste some dishes already made and decide what you like most, gather some inspiration and then perhaps put your own spin on it. But you've got to have some global understanding as to why one could do a thing a certain way. You should always be able to make a good argument for an approach. Even if you're 'just doing something', atleast make it deliberate. You know what videos go viral on YouTube? Usually not the overproduced ones, but the ones that carry a message or show interesting and original content. Sometimes the two meet together, but usually it's still because of the content, the production value is just a bonus.

[Liam]

@Cinegain Sssssssort of. Sounds to me more like someone has a serious passion for running and they may be interested in help.. you did cross country in high school. Would it help them at all for you to tell them how to run? Can you train the next usain bolt on that? Are you also even ignoring that their shoelaces are tied wrong?

I learned what I needed to be comfortable with a camera (admittedly more than some people need to know) through google in the course of like 4 years, and there are concrete things I wish I was handed right away. Everything about story is subjective at best

[HelsinkiZim]

3 hours ago, Liam said:

@Cinegain Sssssssort of. Sounds to me more like someone has a serious passion for running and they may be interested in help.. you did cross country in high school. Would it help them at all for you to tell them how to run? Can you train the next usain bolt on that? Are you also even ignoring that their shoelaces are tied wrong?

I learned what I needed to be comfortable with a camera (admittedly more than some people need to know) through google in the course of like 4 years, and there are concrete things I wish I was handed right away. Everything about story is subjective at best

 thanks again for your input. But I have to disagree that storytelling in the film universe is subjective. There are clearly defined rules when writing for the screen. These rules need to be mastered before they are broken.

Finding out that there are actually rules is more important than knowing the rules themselves.

Most people only feel liberated once they feel confined.

Once they know what chains need to be broken then they can get to work.

I feel that unfortunately filmmaking still lends itself to mystification unlike for example painting whereby it was demystified centuries ago. A painter has no illusions that they must master formal technique before they can experiment.

Edit: yes you could point to the British movement led by Damien hirst or similar, but they were all formally trained in theory at the least.

Most filmmakers with great ideas never pick up a camera because they feel that's some divine inspiration is what makes a film connect with an audience.

However it seems this conversation gearing towards who has a right to tell someone what and how. With that argument i refer back to hertzog. If you feel you have something  creative you want to share with someone else and something unique to say, you do not need permission to do so. 

The act of falling on your ass will teach you more about where your knowledge is lacking. Sitting at home and waiting until you feel you are a master of The Craft before you go out and communicate your knowledge will Ensure that you never actually leave your bedroom.

Even Tom antos started somewhere...

[Liam]

59 minutes ago, HelsinkiZim said:

 thanks again for your input. But I have to disagree that storytelling in the film universe is subjective. There are clearly defined rules when writing for the screen. These rules need to be mastered before they are broken.

Finding out that there are actually rules is more important than knowing the rules themselves.

Most people only feel liberated once they feel confined.

Once they know what chains need to be broken then they can get to work.

I feel that unfortunately filmmaking still lends itself to mystification unlike for example painting whereby it was demystified centuries ago. A painter has no illusions that they must master formal technique before they can experiment.

Edit: yes you could point to the British movement led by Damien hirst or similar, but they were all formally trained in theory at the least.

Most filmmakers with great ideas never pick up a camera because they feel that's some divine inspiration is what makes a film connect with an audience.

However it seems this conversation gearing towards who has a right to tell someone what and how. With that argument i refer back to hertzog. If you feel you have something  creative you want to share with someone else and something unique to say, you do not need permission to do so. 

The act of falling on your ass will teach you more about where your knowledge is lacking. Sitting at home and waiting until you feel you are a master of The Craft before you go out and communicate your knowledge will Ensure that you never actually leave your bedroom.

Even Tom antos started somewhere...

I'm shocked this is getting so much disagreement. I can see your side, sort of. I'm baffled you can't see mine

For one thing, story isn't as difficult as the people teaching story structure want to believe. really? it'll start on an image? rising action BEFORE the climax?? brilliant, why didn't I think of that? So a lot of stuff will happen in the film, and then.. people will watch it.

The film they made in Laforet's class was terrible

El Mariachi was made by someone who gives the advice not to know the rules of story structure, and it plays like a film. It almost falls into cliches by accident. Because it's not complicated.

Slacker's structure is very simple, yet compelling. A series of conversations. I would be amazed if that film started as a three act structure and then Richard Linklater altered it until it got to where it is.. There's not one way, and then variations. There are infinite ways.

So maybe these guys aren't the best filmmakers ever, and maybe you can say they still knew the actual rules before they arrived at the style they wanted. I mean it's not like the best filmmaker ever has actually CREDITED their success to ignorance (except for Orson Welles, who made the best film ever and then credited his success to his ignorance)

 

but like I said, I'm a broken record and don't want to die on this hill. Yeah, some great filmmakers know the rules. I'll be very comfortable letting my scripts speak for themselves