Political thread

[Simon Shasha]

10 hours ago, FilmMan said:

Syrian War.......   Interesting Video.  Perhaps watch.....

 

 

 

Thank you for posting this.

As a Syrian, I have been trying to tell this to many for a long time, but they did not listen.

Glad to see this video out there. Thank you.

[MattH]

9 hours ago, Kisaha said:

It's not a shame to admit that you are a KKK/White Power/buy guns everywhere/Wannabe Ultra rich/Trophy girlfriends/Chauvinist sympathizer. This is the government you vote for, you must be proud.

Haven't watched CNN not even 15 minutes for the whole year by the way.. 

P.S Of course you are not, but this is what you vote for. Maybe you are a victim of your system. Only 2 political parties? This is not democratic at all..Check the Swiss democratic system to note the vast differences between them.

Anyway, this is what John Weaver, (Republican) said about Bannon (you know him, right?) “The racist, fascist extreme right is represented footsteps from the Oval Office. Be very vigilant America.”. He is not trying to be poetic.

Umm, I'm not even American so I didn't vote for anyone in this election.  Nor have I actually said anything positive about trump whatsoever.  It seems to be that you have created a bogey man in your head, and seem keen to superimpose this bogey man of your own making on to other people willy nilly.

When I said CNN narrative, I didn't mean CNN specifically. I meant the narrative specifically. CNN was just an example.  The narrative on CNN is the same narrative peddled by the majority of the mainstream media in the US and in the UK.  And no doubt Europe.  Its a 100% biased narrative.  Just as Fox news is biased one way.  Every single other channel was 100% biased the other way.  And you regurgitated the entire over the top and off-base narrative.

[Kisaha]

@MattH i am not even American either, thanks for replying civilized by the way;

I make my own mind and U read multiple sources. I am very well educated, well-read, and kind of old, to judge things and opinions.

Today I have read 4 articles from July to this days about Tony Schwartz, that wrote The Art of the Deal. If you care, read one, is from New Yorker to Guardian.

This man is no mystery, quite the obvious really, as he seems to not stop talking all the time! If you are just being mature enough to follow the news the last few decades you know who Donald Trump is.

People got bored of mainstream politics, and they will explore other options, but real life is not a game (or video game), multiple wrong decisions can lead to war, death, nuclear disaster (since the begining, that was a wrong decision), pollution, extinction of hundreds of animals, e.t.c

Right now, the middle is vanishing. The middle class, the medium incomes, the centre in politics, right now the fars are gaining power, far left and far right, when these two will meet because there is a critical point that these two will clash, then there will be another world war, and I don't know with what guns this is going to be fought, but the next one will be with rocks and sticks (not my line!).

Well, I refuse to play the role of the ignorant beast, I am no left nor right, to be in the middle, right now, is a stance of resistance, not accepting the hate and divide of human nature. 

Basic knowledge of history and the whole situation is loud and clear, I just hope people will not choose the negatives of this world and enjoy all the wonderful opportunities this planet, and this life (the only one we have anyway).

Well, wishful thinking.

[jgharding]

Since I'm not a US resident I feel quite positive about a Trump presidency.

I hope it improves US/Russian relations and the situation in Syria. I'm sure Hilary would have been another four years of war with escaltion, her obsession with a Syrian no-fly zone would have lead to serious escaltion and maybe a new hot war rather than cold one.

Perhaps if I lived in the US I'd feel differently, but I don't. If one ignores the hysteria and rhetoric coming from every direction, then from an international perspective it doesn't seem like a bad outcome. It will proabbly be more peaceful than the alternative.

That's my two pounds.

[fuzzynormal]

I will say this.  For those that may think Trump is incapable of playing politics in the USA simply because he's not an insider, please look at what he did to Chris Christie.  I'm not a supporter of Trump, but anyone that believes that a POTUS needs some finely honed public service experience to navigate the office just hasn't been paying attention to our history.

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, jgharding said:

Since I'm not a US resident I feel quite positive about a Trump presidency.

I hope it improves US/Russian relations and the situation in Syria. I'm sure Hilary would have been another four years of war with escaltion, her obsession with a Syrian no-fly zone would have lead to serious escaltion and maybe a new hot war rather than cold one.

Perhaps if I lived in the US I'd feel differently, but I don't. If one ignores the hysteria and rhetoric coming from every direction, then from an international perspective it doesn't seem like a bad outcome. It will proabbly be more peaceful than the alternative.

That's my two pounds.

Yo Bro

I also have sympathies with some elements of the anti-establishment candidates like Sanders and Trump. Some of their supporters even though they are at opposite ends of the political spectrum actually share a lot of the same opinions. Such as, Blair and Bush are war criminals, not liking the US intervention in Syria, not liking the hawkish war machine which Hilary would have continued with Obama did, despite a lot of liberals hoping he wouldn't. In the UK, I don't think Trident should be renewed and the money should be spent on small businesses, the science and the arts instead. All this military spending is a waste and we should be more like Norway and be more passive, we are not a world military power any more. Eat lobster and be happy.

I am though a disaffected liberal. I don't like my side. I don't like the other side. I think both sides of Labour are inept and I don't like Trump's politics or his naive ideas. He's a climate change denying businessman who gets his political news from Facebook and whose government policy was knocked up in 10 minutes from some wikipedia articles.

I don't think we want a US aligned with Russia. Putin's behaviour in Syria has been a problem.

He will bring with him into the white house those who completely fail to recognise the contribution non-white people have made to American society, he will marginalise people and poison the discourse to the point where we are already talking about white supremacy more than climate change.

He is threatening to shut down NASA's climate change research department and focus on sending a man to every planet in the solar system instead so the US can say to the Russians how amazing and powerful they are again. Good luck with that. I will fucking need to be living on Mars myself at this rate, there won't be a planet Earth left that is inhabitable. He says wind energy kills birds FFS.

There are real pressing fact based issues facing humanity and he is just like the Brexiteers, part of a new anti-rationalist movement against the establishment. Much as I dislike the establishment, the alternative of popularism is not what we need. It deals with feelings, not facts. When you fact check what Trump is saying it all falls apart and looks childish. Most of what he was elected on the basis of delivering is actually impossible.

Indeed what popularism does is to give the public the mandate to make decisions based on propaganda and misunderstandings. The referendum on the EU is a prime example because most people voted for an outcome they didn't know what would entail, they didn't have a clear plan, they voted against something they didn't understand, I don't think the public should be making decisions of this scale and complexity without the necessary understanding. We are not EU experts in the civil service. We don't have the knowledge to vote either way. It could be good to leave, it could be bad, we don't know. It is up to the government to research into the facts and then for them to take tough decisions. Throwing it out to an Ask The Audience is ridiculous and shows weak leadership. Democracy is being abused to cement power by the establishment. Deep down our PM knows the decision to leave is wrong which is why she voted to remain herself. A majority in the government under Cameron felt the same way and they know it will be a tough and hard Brexit. Yet the courting of popular opinion is so fundamental to their power and their existence and their careers that they will happily do the wrong thing for the country if the majority tell them to. And remember this majority didn't vote based on their amazing understanding of EU membership pros and cons, rather 'feelings'.

[Simon Shasha]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

I don't think we want a US aligned with Russia. Putin's behaviour in Syria has been a problem..

No, the U.S., and their allies in the Gulf, namely Saudi Arabia and Qatar, along with Turkey, have been the problem in Syria.

I am saying this as a Syrian. Again.

If it wasn't for Russia's intervention in my country, many minorities, such as myself (Christian Orthodox), and others like me, who believe in secularism, would have been wiped out by the U.S. and the Gulf's proxy militias long ago

I do not want to see my country turned into another U.S. failed state - like Iraq, like Libya.

[hijodeibn]

11 minutes ago, Simon Shasha said:

No, the U.S., and their allies in the Gulf, namely Saudi Arabia and Qatar, along with Turkey, have been the problem in Syria.

I am saying this as a Syrian. Again.

If it wasn't for Russia's intervention in my country, many minorities, such as myself (Christian Orthodox), and others like me, who believe in secularism, would have been wiped out by the U.S. and the Gulf's proxy militias long ago

I do not want to see my country turned into another U.S. failed state - like Iraq, like Libya.

So sad about what is going on in Syria, and certainly like in the cold war the demon is always Russia, glad to hear there are REAL Syrians here who are telling the truth about what is really going on there....

[Andrew Reid]

Putin has some interesting things to say about Syria and what he said in this interview in particular strikes very true -

The problem is I don't think his intervention has saved lives. It has only furthered the amount of bombs falling, the amount of people dead and the amount of destruction in general.

[hijodeibn]

13 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Putin has some interesting things to say about Syria and what he said in this interview in particular strikes very true -

The problem is I don't think his intervention has saved lives. It has only furthered the amount of bombs falling, the amount of people dead and the amount of destruction in general.

@Andrew there is a real Syrian here with family actually living in Syria who is telling you that Russia intervention has saved lives there, why do you don`t believe him?

[Richard Bugg]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

He's a climate change denying businessman

You're only saying that because you misunderstood his metaphors. When he said it's a "hoax", he meant...

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/22/13715236/donald-trump-climate-change-statement-ny-times-meeting

 

[Andrew Reid]

No, I am not saying I don't believe him.

I know and respect Simon as a friend and regular on the EOSHD forums.

But not everybody's experience in Syria is representative of what is happening to the country as a whole.

You have to look at the larger, geopolitical picture and try to save as many people as possible.

If the mistake the US and UK made was to arm the opposition on the ground to the regime in Syria, causing a civil war, and Putin's airstrikes attempted to strengthen the regime, it's still fighting, it's still bombing, it's still an escalation of war and civilian death tolls.

The US and Obama armed the opposition forces and civilians because they didn't want US troops on the ground. That's a strategy I can appreciate because US boots on the ground was a disaster for Iraq and Afghanistan. Really, what choice did Obama have this time?

5 minutes ago, Richard Bugg said:

You're only saying that because you misunderstood his metaphors. When he said it's a "hoax", he meant...

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/22/13715236/donald-trump-climate-change-statement-ny-times-meeting

 

Indeed.

I read the NYTimes interview. Very interesting stuff.

Trump can say one thing one week, say the opposite the next week, and none of his supporters are worried by this.

In fact they're so used to liars in government by now that they're probably completely de-sensitised to it and think it's just plain-speaking.

It isn't even the outright lying that bothers me, it's Trump's inconsistency of beliefs... I think it stems from Trump believing whatever is good for him. He doesn't consider a broader picture. He does what is good for Trump, facts be damned. It's why he repeats sentences so often. If you repeat it, it feels true.

[Richard Bugg]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Trump can say one thing one week, say the opposite the next week, and none of his supporters are worried by this.

In fact they're so used to liars in government by now that they're probably complete desensitised to it and see it as plain-speaking.

Trump has taken this to new levels. But in the normalisation of Trumpism we are expected to overlook the fact that he is acting like a blithering idiot.

[Andrew Reid]

Same problem in Britain with Boris. A blithering idiot who one week says the UK should leave the EU because it's bad for our country, then on a visit to Turkey the next week campaigns for the Turkish to join the EU because it would be good for them to do so. So if it is good for Turkey, why is it not good for the UK? And does he realise that when he campaigned for Brexit and won, most of the advocates for leaving simply ran away from the situation, leaving the remain politicians to step up and deliver on their impossibly complicated campaign promises such as remaining in a customs union with the EU whilst being outside the free market and freedom of movement. It's fucking ridiculous and it's time people learned to recognise a con when they see one, recognise what is a feel-good conspiracy and what is a difficult fact to swallow, get acquainted with reality and vote based on facts not feelings.

[Simon Shasha]

There has never been a good war. Not one. I think everyone can agree on this. There are going to be casualties - as much as we don't like it.

I believe Russia is directly what stopped the advance of the Saudi/Qatari/Turkish militias from over-running our military and over-throwing our government. Of course, this viewpoint is rarely, if ever, reiterated on Western mainstream media.

Regardless, people have the choice to believe me or not, I don't mind - my information comes directly from my family and friends on, nearly, a daily basis (thank God for free WhatsApp WiFi calls!). Everyone is ultimately entitled to their point of view.

And I agree with Andrew that not every other Syrian's experience of the war will be like mine, or my family's. Lines have been drawn, sides have been taken, and all of us have been caught between the crossfire in one way or another.

I believe Obama's choice of not using U.S. ground forces directly was simply because the U.S. cannot afford another ground war - both in terms of causalities, morale, support and financially (15 Trillion in debt last time I checked). Having failed in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, the U.S. has lost its military deterrence - Obama bluffed, Putin called it. Further, post-Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, they have also lost whatever credibility they had left as being morally conscious force in the world...

I'll be honest, guys, I find it very difficult to continue discussing this. I hate to sound weak, but it's rather emotionally draining. All I want is for Syria to go back to how it was when I was a kid. I had friends from all different faiths and creeds. People would celebrate each other's holy days as if it were their own. I didn't matter what part of Syria you were from, or what religion you happened to be born into. There wasn't even a concept of "Christian Syrian, Shi'a Syrian, Sunni Syrian, Alawite Syrian, Druze Syria, Jewish Syrian" - we were all just "Syrian".

And the awful truth is, you can see in my very own statements that even I have become a victim of this segregation - I have said, time and again, how I am "Christian Orthodox Syrian". The truth is, I don't like saying it - I just want to say "Syrian"...

All in good time. I hope.

[FilmMan]

Simon Shasha, if people would research, they'd see the truths in your comments about Syria.  By the way, I used to go to a Syrian barber.  We used to have very good conversations.  I understand the plight of the Syrian people.  People, who I know from the Middle East, have expressed similar stories as to what you have explained too.  

Below is a very interesting video by an expert.  If people are open to understanding they should watch the entire video.  Cheers.