Olympus E-M1 II mini-review - a sign of things to come with the Panasonic GH5?

[liork]

jonpais, its very simple: take your new camera - the X-T2, add to it "half a gimble" 400$ worth (that how I rate the ibis in the Olympus) and you got the math for the E M1 II price...

[jonpais]

no emoji, so I assume you're not being sarcastic... more realistically, how about taking the actual price of my gimbal ($650) and throwing in the camera body for free, and you've got yourself a GX80.

[Kisaha]

IBIS/rolling shutter seem to be best in class.

What are the cons though? I read that mic/headphone jack placement is really bad and I do not understand what the 3200/6400 iso mean. In GH4 the number was 800/1600, is the Olympus really that much better in low light?

Fuji/Olympus are photo orientated cameras with acceptable (to good) 4K video. That is a first. I except much better video performance in the next try (especially from Fuji).

P.s "good built-in audio quality" must be some kind of joke.

[jonpais]

none of it means anything. it's not an actual review or anything, just words on a page.

Viewfinder - check. Shutter speed dial - check. Shutter button - check. Tripod mount - check.

36 minutes ago, liork said:

@jonpais, its very simple: take your new camera - the X-T2, add to it "half a gimble" 400$ worth (that how I rate the ibis in the Olympus) and you got the math for the E M1 II price...

The next firmware update for the VPB should include IBIS.

[liork]

37 minutes ago, jonpais said:

no emoji, so I assume you're not being sarcastic... more realistically, how about taking the actual price of my gimbal ($650) and throwing in the camera body for free, and you've got yourself a GX80.

These are two different things: yes, the gimbel will be better in performance, but you cannot compare the mobility the internal ibis gives you. You just through the camra in the bag, not carrying anything more and still able to get some beautiful movements.

Well, it is quiet early with this camera, first sample show better colours than Sony - especially skin tones. You have everything you need for one man operation - like headphones out, full flipped touch screen, not having to worry about rolling shutter etc. That is a good start point.

[Andrew Reid]

39 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

IBIS/rolling shutter seem to be best in class.

The IBIS is only best in class with 2 lenses.

Specifically, Sync IS on the very expensive Olympus PRO zooms. And they are F4.

F4 looks terrible on a Micro Four Thirds sensor. Flat and clinical.

Whereas the GX85 and G85 performs dual IS with the Leica Nocticron 42.5mm F1.2 and 6 other lenses.

I know which I'd rather have.

As for rolling shutter, it's about 14ms on the G85 in 4K and certainly the E-M1 II is an improvement but it won't usually be noticeable on 95% of shots.

39 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

What are the cons though? I read that mic/headphone jack placement is really bad and I do not understand what the 3200/6400 iso mean. In GH4 the number was 800/1600, is the Olympus really that much better in low light?

The G85 is cleaner at ISO 1600 than the GH4 is at 800.

It does very acceptable 3200 and colour saturation doesn't die. Nice and contrasty.

ISO 6400 is the limit. Not bad.

The E-M1 II is similar, no improvement for your $2000.

39 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Fuji/Olympus are photo orientated cameras with acceptable (to good) 4K video. That is a first. I except much better video performance in the next try (especially from Fuji).

P.s "good built-in audio quality" must be some kind of joke.

It's hardly going to be Rode Videomic X standard but I did notice on the E-M1 II when I tried it, that the stereo mic built in was above average.

45 minutes ago, jonpais said:

no emoji, so I assume you're not being sarcastic... more realistically, how about taking the actual price of my gimbal ($650) and throwing in the camera body for free, and you've got yourself a GX80.

Exactly!

$2000 for the E-M1 II just for the stabilisation is not worth it.

[liork]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

As for rolling shutter, it's about 14ms on the G85 in 4K and certainly the E-M1 II is an improvement but it won't usually be noticeable on 95% of shots.

G85 RS is similar to G7, no way 14ms. And you can see it.

 

[Andrew Reid]

5 hours ago, jonpais said:

Both Cinema 5D and News Shooter are praising the Olympus to the skies (pun intended), but I just don't see anything special about it for video purposes. In fact, Johnnie Behiri's video looks seriously over-sharpened, video-y with no gradation of color, in the subject's skin, for example. The video was shot on an overcast day, which should be flattering to the subject, but instead it looks rather awful. I've seen better work from Johnnie with non-interchangeable lens cameras with 1" sensors. Anyhow, I much prefer the images coming out of the aging GH4 to this camera. Soon, everyone will get over IBIS and start evaluating cameras for their image quality again. It is rather amusing to read the comments about  the upcoming GH5, though, "if it doesn't have this or that, I'm not buying it" and so on. Also, I admire companies like Sigma and Fuji, who obstinately refuse to lay off their workers and move their factories abroad. How, for example, can Olympus ask $2,000 when even Fuji's flagship camera sells for $1,600? Especially when Olympus is manufacturing the EM1 II here in Vietnam, where labor costs are even lower than in China?

Cinema5D seem to be engaged in a huge charm offensive towards every manufacturer at the moment, flying out personally to Japan to lick arses and generally cozy up.

It makes me want to wrench.

If ever there was a self serving portion of the DSLR video community this is what it looks like.

The review is just a means to an end, to get views, get advertisers and get cozy.

Johnnie didn't even know about the manual focus clutch ring design of the Olympus lenses until he tried to engage AF on the shoot and nothing happened... they've been around for years. Several of my Olympus Micro Four Thirds lenses have this basic feature.

We are not looking at enthusiasts or artists here.

Instead we are witnessing the career manoeuvrings of the video-as-a-business trio who fired Jared Abrams from his own blog, and whom closed one of the biggest DSLR video forums after DVXUser, because it became an 'inconvenience' (not before they sold it to Planet5D, mind, before forcefully taking it back and closing it)

[jonpais]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

IBIS/rolling shutter seem to be best in class.

What are the cons though? I read that mic/headphone jack placement is really bad and I do not understand what the 3200/6400 iso mean. In GH4 the number was 800/1600, is the Olympus really that much better in low light?

Fuji/Olympus are photo orientated cameras with acceptable (to good) 4K video. That is a first. I except much better video performance in the next try (especially from Fuji).

P.s "good built-in audio quality" must be some kind of joke.

No two manufacturers report ISO in the same way. For example, on the Olympus EM1, when set to ISO 6400, the actual measured ISO is 3870. And what one viewer considers acceptable noise levels may be unacceptable for another.

[fuzzynormal]

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

I know you use Olympus, so let me ask you: in what way is this a better investment than say, the GX80/85, which costs $1,300 less? Or, removing iBIS out of the equation altogether, the $600.00 USD Lumix G7?

Also, how can Johnnie Behiri claim the Olympus is usable up to ISO 6400? Although what is acceptable is a purely subjective matter, I still find that assertion absurd for a u43 sensor in the year 2016.

It's finally dawning on me that if there is a link to the product being reviewed, the review absolutely cannot be 100% objective.

I currently own 2 gx85's, a gx7, and a gm1 --and have been shooting video with them for quite awhile.

I posted a doc I did with them in the screening room.

my avatar icon for this website is a GM1 with a little manual Pentax lens on it.

LUMIX are nice cameras.  Kind of great, really.

I still like using my EM5II more. 

Better stabilization, audio input, EVF that's useful, flippy LCD, headphones, easier to hold and shoot with... the sum of the whole is better than the parts. 

The IQ is better with the LUMIX cameras, no question. 

For my needs, the IQ is not so much better that I've stopped using the Oly. 

I just enjoy using Oly that much.

Its nothing that shows up on a spec sheet.

LUMIX cameras are better IQ machines.  They are a huge value for that!  But when I'm out in the field everyday shooting for hours, I like to feel comfortable with the camera I'm using.  Oly does this for me more so than the LUMIX.

It's that simple.

 

[mat33]

Ok, so the E-M1ii is expensive but it is Olympus's flagship and has quite a few nice photo features other than the 4K video (which looks like quite a nice improvement over the prior cameras).  The 2 sec RAW video could be quite fun as well for certain uses.  I don't know if the E-M1ii is as bad an investment as being made out -Olympus does support their flagship camera for quite a few years and the E-M1 received 4 major firmware updates, so I think its fairly certain the E-M1ii will be improved in time (and there won't be an E-M1 mark iii in 6 months).  Panasonic certainly has good bang for the buck, but as pointed out, the Olympus's are very nice to use and a good overall package.  

I see the E-M1ii as a bit like a m4/3 1DX mark ii -no dual pixel AF or 4k60p but can shoot up to 5sec stills handheld and great IBIS for video. If you don't like m4/3 for stills, then yes there might be better value options for you, but the E-M1ii is still a nice camera. 

 

[Don Kotlos]

13 minutes ago, mat33 said:

I see the E-M1ii as a bit like a m4/3 1DX mark ii -no dual pixel AF or 4k60p but can shoot up to 5sec stills handheld and great IBIS for video. If you don't like m4/3 for stills, then yes there might be better value options for you, but the E-M1ii is still a nice camera. 

Exactly. Its truly an amazing camera when used primarily for stills, offering decent video as well.

But just for video? not a great value.  Maybe when a  proper log arrives with a firmware update will make it easier to swallow that price tag. 

[Stanley]

 

[Emanuel]

 

[liork]

Its already published here one page before and not very relevant info...

[sanveer]

On 13/12/2016 at 6:53 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Not blown away by anything out of the camera so far and since my own hands on with it I've been shooting with the Panasonic G85 and realised it is by far the better deal.

The stabilisation doesn't seem much better on the E-M1 II compared to that camera for video.

The price - is it worth double just to shave 0.2x off the crop factor in 4K?

The ergonomics - I feel the Panasonic menus and controls are less convoluted somehow.

E-M1 II doesn't seem to have an advantage for ISO 3200, 6400... unchanged since old E-M1

Don't remember being blown away by the EVF compared to the G85 at half the price either.

Main difference is the higher bitrate codec and less rolling shutter.... but neither are a particular problem on the G85 either.

Both are very good cameras for video but right now I am leaning towards saving $1000.

Not least because the GH5 is around the corner which gives the E-M1 II a useful shelf life of about 2-3 months for your $2000.

Interestingly the G85 is $999 with the 12-60mm lens, which is actually a $495 lens.

So, theoretically the G85 is not 1/2 but rather 1/3rd the price.

Also, such pricing is not only problematic for the Olympus, but it will also, IMHO, eat into the GH5's market, unless the video on that is Insane. 

[Andrew Reid]

12-60 kit zoom is not a $495 lens and if it is then it is overpriced.

Speed Booster with Canon glass or super fast Panasonic primes are the way to go!

[liork]

Even though Panasonic newer kit lenses are sharp, the color is so boring... generaly no lens character at all.

[sanveer]

38 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

12-60 kit zoom is not a $495 lens and if it is then it is overpriced.

Speed Booster with Canon glass or super fast Panasonic primes are the way to go!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1226383-REG/panasonic_h_fs12060_lumix_g_12_60mm_f_3_5_5_6.html

 

[Cinegain]

But it isn't 495 more than body only, so effectively, it's not. Also... performance wise... it's a kit lens, it doesn't particularly shine anywhere. The range is useful though. But it's maybe max a 329 lens. Realistically wouldn't pay more than that to have it. It's not even terrible during daylight though and it does have optical image stabilization; the dual IS 2 proves useful.