Fidel film?

[Jonesy Jones]

Just came across this article. Amazing. And amazing opportunity for a filmmaker. I bet there are a zillion stories just like this. Anyone interested in making a film? There is an audience for sure. I'd pay to see it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/442515/fidel-castro-brutal-dictatorship-armando-valladeres-cuban-dissidents-tortured?utm_source=nr&utm_medium=facebook%3Futm_content%3Dhabeeb%3Futm_campaign%3Dtorture

[Don Kotlos]

I wonder if many people know who that is. His name is Fulgencio Batista, one of the many US-backed dictators of the world. Here is the wiki article for more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista. I urge you to read it, it will not take more than 5 minutes of your time. 

If you don't then I will just include three quotes from your past president JFK:

"At the beginning of 1959 United States companies owned about 40 percent of the Cuban sugar lands—almost all the cattle ranches—90 percent of the mines and mineral concessions—80 percent of the utilities—practically all the oil industry—and supplied two-thirds of Cuba's imports". 

"Fulgencio Batista murdered 20,000 Cubans in seven years ... and he turned Democratic Cuba into a complete police state—destroying every individual liberty. Yet our aid to his regime, and the ineptness of our policies, enabled Batista to invoke the name of the United States in support of his reign of terror. Administration spokesmen publicly praised Batista—hailed him as a staunch ally and a good friend—at a time when Batista was murdering thousands, destroying the last vestiges of freedom, and stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from the Cuban people, and we failed to press for free elections"

"Batista's rule was one of the most bloody and repressive dictatorships in the long history of Latin American repression""

Fidel was an attorney who had run for parliament in 1952 elections that Batista canceled with yet another coup. When Batista felt he had made his fortune he fled Cuba with it, and after years of struggle Fidel and his army took charge.

Guess what happened after that.

The bay of pigs invasion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion). 

I bet this will make a much more interesting story that can educate people and help them elect wiser Presidents. 

P.S. Oliver Stone has two documentaries about Fidel Castro that are worth watching. Also Oliver Stone's "Untold history of US" is a great doc series to watch. 

[fuzzynormal]

Hey, America's excursions into the politics of the caribbean, central america, and south america have been awesome and usually turn out great.  Cuba was an anomaly!  

[kaylee]

39 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Cuba was an anomaly! 

p much the only anomaly in US foreign policy that i can think of tbh

@Don Kotlos thank you for reminding me to watch the untold history of the US!!! totally meant to it fell off my queue 

[squig]

2 hours ago, kaylee said:

p much the only anomaly in US foreign policy that i can think of tbh

@Don Kotlos thank you for reminding me to watch the untold history of the US!!! totally meant to it fell off my queue 

It's very good.

4 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

P.S. Oliver Stone has two documentaries about Fidel Castro that are worth watching. Also Oliver Stone's "Untold history of US" is a great doc series to watch. 

Three.

 

[Jonesy Jones]

This story is so powerful. It helps give me great perspective on some of the things I consider "problems" in my life.

[Damphousse]

On 12/1/2016 at 10:15 PM, Jonesy Jones said:

nationalreview.com

That's where I stopped reading.

Quote

Political views

Victor Davis Hanson, a regular contributor since 2001, sees a broad spectrum of conservative, anti-liberal and pro-western contributors:

In other words, a wide conservative spectrum—paleo-conservatives, neo-conservatives, tea-party enthusiasts, the deeply religious and the agnostic, both libertarians and social conservatives, free-marketeers and the more protectionist—characterizes National Review. The common requisite is that they present their views as a critique of prevailing liberal orthodoxy but do so analytically and with decency and respect.[23]

The magazine has been described as "the bible of American conservatism".[24]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Review

As Fox News illustrated there is a multibillion dollar market for this far right wing propaganda.  You can't argue with the economics of it.  Left wingers are far more cerebral so you can't have that kind of propaganda cottage industry catering to them.  They like facts and open debate.  Look at the fake news epidemic on Facebook.  The overwhelming majority of those stories were aimed at right wingers... because of their propensity to believe BS.

Direct quote from an interview with a fake news poster...

Quote

You mentioned Trump, and you’ve probably heard the argument, or the concern, that fake news somehow helped him get elected. What do you make of that?

My sites were picked up by Trump supporters all the time. I think Trump is in the White House because of me. His followers don’t fact-check anything — they’ll post everything, believe anything. His campaign manager posted my story about a protester getting paid $3,500 as fact. Like, I made that up. I posted a fake ad on Craigslist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2016/11/17/facebook-fake-news-writer-i-think-donald-trump-is-in-the-white-house-because-of-me/?utm_term=.db5ec2dbecc1

Honestly with Castro's health issues I'm surprised people didn't have a movie ready to go, just in case.   You could have shot 80% of it and then just added contemporary interviews after he died.  As the National Review propaganda piece illustrates we already know all the recycled talking points:

1) Cuba was a paradise before Castro came to power

2)  Castro did nothing but bad things

3) Every Cuban hates Castro

4) Any Cuban that says they like or support Castro is just saying that because they fear for their life.

I don't know.  Maybe that fiction has been repeated so many times it lacks shock value or "newness" so it might not be a big financial success.  Hard to say.  Just looking at the New York Times best seller list, cable news ratings, and the volume of wing nut right wing tripe on the internet I still think there has to be a profitable project in there somewhere.  If you bought a couple of G7 and some cheap lights and sound equipment you could do something pretty good looking on a budget.

[Jonesy Jones]

1 minute ago, Damphousse said:

That's where I stopped reading.

Are you saying his story is fabricated?

2 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

Left wingers are far more cerebral so you can't have that kind of propaganda cottage industry catering to them.  They like facts and open debate.  

Wow!!! Just wow!!! Is this the same cerebral bunch that completely bought the narrative that Clinton had the election in the bag, that Trump would NEVER be in the White House, and that the Republican Party as we know it had imploded and would NEVER hold any power again? Is it fair to say cerebral, but extremely gullible? Do those things even go together? I don't know.

[Damphousse]

1 minute ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Wow!!! Just wow!!! Is this the same cerebral bunch that completely bought the narrative that Clinton had the election in the bag, that Trump would NEVER be in the White House, and that the Republican Party as we know it had imploded and would NEVER hold any power again? Is it fair to say cerebral, but extremely gullible? Do those things even go together? I don't know.

And Clinton did exactly what the most high quality polls predicted.  She won the popular vote by millions of votes.  Even Trump thought he was going to lose.  Let's not get into revisionist history here.  No one predicted Trump would win Michigan nor that he would win the electoral college while losing by millions of votes.

Being cerebral doesn't mean infallible.  In fact recognizing that fallibility is part of being cerebral.  Besides you were just offered three independently verified data points (Fox News, NY Times bestseller list, fake news on facebook) that clearly indicated right wing minds are much more fertile and profitable places to plant propaganda.  I mean what is your explanation for why election after election millions more people vote for Democrats but yet there is no burgeoning cottage industry in nutty left wing books, radio, TV, etc?

 

3 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Are you saying his story is fabricated?

No idea who he is and I don't have time to fact check him.  I also know full well people are imprisoned and tortured right here in the United States every day.  I don't need to go to some other country to find a poor soul to make me realize how blessed I am.  I can just walk out my front door and see the suffering all around me.

Honestly as a content creator on a budget if you want to do a political project and increase the odds of success my suggestion is to aim it at right wing drones.  Sure you can do a moonshot and hope to become the next Michael Moore but if you exclude the outliers there are far more people on the right who you have never heard of who are making millions off of right win zombies... or at least hundreds of thousands.

I've watched a couple of Michael Moore movies but the way he plays fast and loose with some of the facts and shades things really turned me off.  Who knows?  Michael Moore and I probably have 90-95% similar voting records but I'm not going to go on the internet and ram his material down someone else's throat.  That's the difference.  See a right winger will gladly go and ram the National Review down everyone's throat and lambast you for even questioning it.  That's the point I was making.  I would much rather sell a movie to that market than to someone like me.  So much easier.

I will admit people on the left totally missed the market for Fox News.  I despise the network but you can't deny that stuff sells.  And it is why despite poll after poll showing the popularity of Democratic ideas I will never be involved in a left wing project such as a cable news TV show, radio show or book.  They are doomed to failure or certainly much lower levels of return.  That's just my humble advice to forum members.  Do your own research.    It is clear where the money is.

[Jonesy Jones]

17 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

And Clinton did exactly what the most high quality polls predicted.  She won the popular vote by millions of votes.  Even Trump thought he was going to lose.  Let's not get into revisionist history here.  No one predicted Trump would win Michigan nor that he would win the electoral college while losing by millions of votes.

Being cerebral doesn't mean infallible.  In fact recognizing that fallibility is part of being cerebral.  Besides you were just offered three independently verified data points (Fox News, NY Times bestseller list, fake news on facebook) that clearly indicated right wing minds are much more fertile and profitable places to plant propaganda.  I mean what is your explanation for why election after election millions more people vote for Democrats but yet there is no burgeoning cottage industry in nutty left wing books, radio, TV, etc?

 

No idea who he is and I don't have time to fact check him.  I also know full well people are imprisoned and tortured right here in the United States every day.  I don't need to go to some other country to find a poor soul to make me realize how blessed I am.  I can just walk out my front door and see the suffering all around me.

Honestly as a content creator on a budget if you want to do a political project and increase the odds of success my suggestion is to aim it at right wing drones.  Sure you can do a moonshot and hope to become the next Michael Moore but if you exclude the outliers there are far more people on the right who you have never heard of who are making millions off of right win zombies... or at least hundreds of thousands.

I've watched a couple of Michael Moore movies but the way he plays fast and loose with some of the facts and shades things really turned me off.  Who knows?  Michael Moore and I probably have 90-95% similar voting records but I'm not going to go on the internet and ram his material down someone else's throat.  That's the difference.  See a right winger will gladly go and ram the National Review down everyone's throat and lambast you for even questioning it.  That's the point I was making.  I would much rather sell a movie to that market than to someone like me.  So much easier.

I will admit people on the left totally missed the market for Fox News.  I despise the network but you can't deny that stuff sells.  And it is why despite poll after poll showing the popularity of Democratic ideas I will never be involved in a left wing project such as a cable news TV show, radio show or book.  They are doomed to failure or certainly much lower levels of return.  That's just my humble advice to forum members.  Do your own research.    It is clear where the money is.

Sorry to rub you wrong. I don't have time either. Have a blessed day.

[Damphousse]

2 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Sorry to rub you wrong.

You didn't rub anything.  Just having an honest discussion about the economics of the media industry.

I mean when you look at TV, radio, books, etc you know I'm right.  Michael Moore's highest grossing film pulled in $120 million.  Glenn Beck made $80 million in one year after he was booted off cable television.  And Michael Moore is a bizarre aberration.  Look at the top grossing political movies and he is responsible for the majority of them.  Yet someone like Glenn Beck who most of the planet has never heard of can make in one year 67% of Michael Moore's top grossing movie AFTER he is kicked off TV.  And Glenn Beck's one year haul trounces the gross receipts from every other Michael Moore movie.  Michael Moore's second highest grossing movie made a comparatively pathetic $25 million.  Granted that is only theater revenue not DVD and bluray.

I don't know.  If I were working in that industry I would think those type of financial numbers would be something someone would be interested in.  At my day job they don't care about my politics and frankly prefer if I keep them to myself.  They want me to produce and go where the money is.  If the voracious appetite for this stuff amongst right wingers embarrasses you I don't know what to say.

I get people wanting to be artists and following their heart.  Money isn't everything.  I believe certain things but I know there just isn't a large built in market for it.  ALL the political movies I've watched were unimpressive to me.  They cater to the diehards or spice things up to compete with Hollywood blockbusters.  I guess reality is just too boring or too complex.  Like your Castro example.  I mean pretending history in Cuba started when Castro came to power makes for a nice simplistic movie that really appeals to a certain kind of audience.  But let's be honest no country is that simple.  From the time Christopher Columbus stepped foot on that island there has been suffering and oppression.  Let's talk about Columbus and Batista and Castro and all the other people the wonderful US education system never bothered to teach us about.  I would watch that movie.  But I know I am not in a very big market.  The market that wants to believe Columbus and Batista are saints and Castro is the devil is much bigger.

I'm not telling you not to make this movie.  I'm not telling you to tone the antiCastro propaganda down.  Quite the opposite actually.  I think if done correctly on a strict budget the project would sell enough to be profitable.  My problem is timing.  Due to Castro's protracted illness and stepping out of the public eye so long ago his death is a bit anticlimactic.  And with the Trump circus in town six months from now people are going to be like, Castro who?  As I said the thing to have done is to have a movie 80% ready and then when Castro died have one person in Miami and one person in Havana filming like crazy and then finish and release the movie in record time.  Starting cold now to me seems like you would hurt your chances of profitability.  Just my opinion.

[fuzzynormal]

5 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Sorry to rub you wrong. I don't have time either. Have a blessed day.

FWIW, I do agree that right wing niche content creation is a more viable market.  I think it's a psychological thing.  Affirmations appeal to that sensibility more.  This is neither good nor bad, just my impression.

Then again, films like "Forks Over Knives" that tend to cater to certain left wing notions have done well too.

As it happens, my wife and I are angling to create a niche film for a very specific market.  

Seems to me with so much digital content flying around, unless you're a creative savant on the genius level --and you can create a mass appeal film that's head and shoulders above all the other stuff out there, ( I know I can't do that ) you're not going to make successfully commercial products in today's market without catering to specific niches.

[Jonesy Jones]

6 hours ago, Damphousse said:

As I said the thing to have done is to have a movie 80% ready and then when Castro died have one person in Miami and one person in Havana filming like crazy and then finish and release the movie in record time.  Starting cold now to me seems like you would hurt your chances of profitability.  Just my opinion.

Not trying to resurrect the discussion, but you were clear that I wasn't suggesting a Fidel Film right? I mean, I did title the thread that way, but no one would have recognized whatever the name of the guy the article is about. But yah, that's the film I was talking about, not Fidel. But obviously Fidel and his legacy would be a part of the story, and since the protagonist would be the torture victims, it would definitely not be a pro-Fidel piece. After thinking about it, you probably inferred all of that.

2 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

FWIW, I do agree that right wing niche content creation is a more viable market.  I think it's a psychological thing.  Affirmations appeal to that sensibility more.  This is neither good nor bad, just my impression.

I don't know. On one hand I agree with you, but on the other... I feel like if I made a pro LGBT film it would get shared and liked and probably be accepted to a plethora of festivals just by default. I know I can't use Vimeo Staff Picks as evidence of viability, but....

Then again, I know what you mean about the conservative crowd. But I'd say it holds true for any community that you understand. 

For instance, there is a faith based film about Fire Fighters called Fire Proof (it's cheesier than a quesadilla). But the filmmakers new that fire fighters watch films about fire fighters. There are millions of fire fighters. The filmmakers did well.

I guess that's what you're trying to say.

[fuzzynormal]

1 hour ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I feel like if I made a pro LGBT film it would get shared and liked and probably be accepted to a plethora of festivals just by default

Oh no doubt about it.  You're spot on with that.  A lot of young LGBT filmmakers have a sense of entitlement about their struggles, and it seems they feel that inherent conflict about LGBT life is good drama.  And it is in a way.  But the problem is, bad filmmakers lean on that crutch way too much.

And (as a guy on the inside of a local film festival with a bunch of regular-joes) I can tell you that many festival selection committee members do go into a mode wherein they champion films that support their ideals rather than honestly evaluating a film.  I've watched numerous creative and crafty films get ignored simply because they don't tickle a selector's self-important interests.  That's just the way it is.  

Don't even get me started about the pretentiousness of "serious" films on the indy circuit.  Docs are the worst.  So dour and stern most of the time.  Blah.  

Anyway, identity politics is powerful.  It truly bugs me how mediocre films are elevated because they decide to carry water for some sort of cause, social justice or otherwise.  That's across the board... and nothing new, really.  I suppose that's been true throughout human history.  Some write prose, others write poetry.

The films that endure are the ones that transcend that sort of nonsense and actually have something compelling to say, something that we as viewers have to reckon with in a truthful way.

Bowl me over with a feather, don't hit me with a hammer, you know?  Then again, some folks like to get pounded.

[fuzzynormal]

1 hour ago, Jonesy Jones said:

a pro LGBT film it would get shared and liked and probably be accepted to a plethora of festivals

I also try to keep in mind that those that strive to be creative and curious probably want to be mused by the limits of society and culture.  If one accepts that, then it's not too difficult to understand why LGBT would appeal to those that fancy themselves as libertines...but that puts us back to the identity politics side of things... at any rate, it's easy to see why queer films have currency among the "arts."

Maybe it's just like paintings.  You know, in the end, some people are just going to like a Mark Rothko and some people can only stand to look at a Thomas Kinkaid.

[Damphousse]

1 hour ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Not trying to resurrect the discussion, but you were clear that I wasn't suggesting a Fidel Film right? I mean, I did title the thread that way, but no one would have recognized whatever the name of the guy the article is about. But yah, that's the film I was talking about, not Fidel. But obviously Fidel and his legacy would be a part of the story, and since the protagonist would be the torture victims, it would definitely not be a pro-Fidel piece. After thinking about it, you probably inferred all of that.

 

Yes.  It was very obvious you were talking about an antiCastro film.  I don't agree with Fox News, right wing radio, nor the right wing book complex but I can recognize a money making opportunity.  I can not like something and acknowledge it has a market.  My personal likes and dislikes do not dictate whether something can make money.

 

 

[Damphousse]

On 12/1/2016 at 10:15 PM, Jonesy Jones said:

Just came across this article. Amazing. And amazing opportunity for a filmmaker. I bet there are a zillion stories just like this. Anyone interested in making a film? There is an audience for sure. I'd pay to see it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/442515/fidel-castro-brutal-dictatorship-armando-valladeres-cuban-dissidents-tortured?utm_source=nr&utm_medium=facebook%3Futm_content%3Dhabeeb%3Futm_campaign%3Dtorture

 One of the reasons I had a visceral reaction to your post is this...

Quote

The United States has a higher tolerance for torture than any other country on the U.N. Security Council, and Americans are more comfortable with torture than citizens of war-ravaged countries such as Afghanistan, Iraq and Ukraine.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/12/05/more-americans-support-torture-than-afghans-iraqis-and-south-sudanese-why/?utm_term=.91516a706903

That news story came out literally five days after you started this thread.  Going on about something that happened over half a century ago is a distraction from the fact that 33% of my fellow Americans think that kind of behavior is acceptable and one of them just got elected president.  That's a lot more shocking and pertinent than what happened half a century ago on an impoverished island that isn't going to invade anyone or drop any nukes.

And as far as fake news...

Quote

Incoming national security adviser's son spreads fake news about D.C. pizza shop

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/incoming-national-security-advisers-son-spreads-fake-news-about-dc-pizza-shop-232181

They were working on getting this guy a security clearance while he was spreading fake news.

 

Quote

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Latest on the arrest of a man who police say fired shots in a pizzeria while investigating a fake news story (all times local):

6 p.m.

A man who police say fired an assault rifle inside a pizzeria in the nation's capital while investigating a fake news story about Hillary Clinton running a child sex ring has been ordered held until at least Thursday.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/north-carolina/the-latest-police-pizzeria-gunman-had-ar15-rifle-handgun/473210241

Again within days of you starting this thread.  I didn't post my comments to bash you or troll.  It's just at this time in our nation's history there are much more important stories than what one guy alleges someone did to him on a foreign island half a century ago.

That's just three stories from the last week.  That's what keeps me up at night.