Premiere CC 2017 proxy workflow is amaaaazing

[mojo43]

3 hours ago, Axel said:

@MountneerMan 

I must apologize. It was me who didn't get it. So you first interpret the original footage (say 120 or 60 to 24p). After you did this you transcode to proxy to match those. You are right.

So that would work then? I'll have to try this out.

[jgharding]

On 02/12/2016 at 9:59 PM, Axel said:

I don't want to sound like a wisenheimer, but I predicted the success of an easy proxy workflow in Premiere since the first rumors of it's implementation. Good for all Premiere users. Allow me to remind you of the days when Premiere supported the proprietary Nvidia Mercury Engine. I could (but I won't) dig out some lengthy threads in which proud Premiere owners (you used to buy it) poured scorn on us FCP people. The mark of a professional NLE, they said, is the ability to edit the native codec. Now it's the other way around. "X" lets you skip intermediates because it's so streamlined, you use proxies mainly for multicam. The mark of a smart editor is that he uses everything that let's him work with less problems.

Grandma Adobe abandons one of her last fortresses. What's next? Tracks?

Here's a screenshot taken today in CC2017.

Mercury is alive and kicking if you have a PC with an Nvidia card. Of course it's not gonna work on a new MacBook "Pro" because they are toys for people who like to sit in Starbucks pretending to work...

*LOLLES TO SELF AND DIVES UNDER TROLL BRIDGE*

FCPX is very streamlined though, that's the benefit of coding to limited hardware, but I think they're really pushin it with the sort of "toy" specs in their new so-called Pro line. I was actually considering switching to FCPX and Mac before they announced the new line...

[jgharding]

The main reason for thinking of switching was the persistant bugs in Premiere. There are now some horrible bugs that I've been using workarounds for since years and years ago. They've been reported endlessly. Fixing these bugs is always ignored in favour of new flashy features. It makes me sad that they take in hundreds of millions a year and yet don't focus on solidifying core products, but instead spend fortunes on creating frivolous mobile apps and so on, which no one really uses outside of ukelele-soundtracked Instagram adverts.

[pablogrollan]

2 hours ago, jgharding said:

Mercury is alive and kicking if you have a PC with an Nvidia card.

For quite a while it has also worked with Open CL -not just CUDA-, so ATI card owners -most Mac owners- enjoy the Mercury Playback Engine just as much.

And yes, you are right that MPE is alive and kicking, in fact Adobe hasn't "abandoned the fortress" but the other way around. Premiere is STILL betting on the idea that it is much better to work on the native codec without any transcoding, that's why they have been the first ones to support h.265 and the new RED Helium formats. Of couse this requires a beefy computer and an updated GPU.

Proxy workflow is just an answer to the increasing number of people editing from laptops combined with the extra requirements of 4K footage. I can edit FS7's and C300MKII 4K footage natively and without lag or any other problem on my desktop suite because it is properly configured to do so and has no significant bottlenecks. Trying to do the same on a laptop with limited GPU, CPU and RAM and a single HDD/SDD is a different story. The same applies to outdated desktops who are "collateral benefit" in this case.

I don't mind spending a bit every year to keep the edit suites updated -my livelihood depends on them- and I suppose Adobe expects you to since the whole CC is aimed at professionals. At first, only the Quadro cards were "MPE approved" which meant thousands of $ on the GPU alone! As an added benefit proxy workflow might bring a couple "decommisioned" computers back online.

[Axel]

2 hours ago, jgharding said:

*LOLLES TO SELF AND DIVES UNDER TROLL BRIDGE*

The troll would be me, fanning resentments in a Premiere jubilation thread, but anyway.

2 hours ago, jgharding said:

... new MacBook "Pro" (...)  are toys for people who like to sit in Starbucks pretending to work...

Yes, and they always look exactly how everybody thinks creatives look like. Very funny. Reminds me of Matrix, the roughly crocheted woolen shirts and the designer sunglasses at night. Someone really should analyze the target groups. 

2 hours ago, jgharding said:

The main reason for thinking of switching was the persistant bugs in Premiere. There are now some horrible bugs that I've been using workarounds for since years and years ago.

FCP X is buggy too. Visit the fcp.co forum. There was an update already to 10.3, fixing four or five of the worst bugs. 

2 hours ago, jgharding said:

It makes me sad that they take in hundreds of millions a year and yet don't focus on solidifying core products, but instead spend fortunes on creating frivolous mobile apps and so on, which no one really uses outside of ukelele-soundtracked Instagram adverts.

The shareholders dictate that. I like Adobe, but find them very conservative. They care about their pro clients, that's true. They are afraid to make too radical changes. Therefore, they just keep adding features and overhauling the old routines. Okay for Photoshop and After Effects, I use both. When I watch my buddy edit in Premiere (I knew it well up to CS5.5), I can't help thinking, why is this whole process such a mess? Why can't they kill all this redundancy?

[MountneerMan]

11 hours ago, Axel said:

@MountneerMan 

I must apologize. It was me who didn't get it. So you first interpret the original footage (say 120 or 60 to 24p). After you did this you transcode to proxy to match those. You are right.

No no I apologize lol I did not know that you could interpret footage before inserting it on your timeline. I always just changed the speed of the clips after I put them on the timeline. lol.

I see now what you are talking about where adobe messed up and this is somthing they do need to fix but as I have never used this feature its it not a big deal for me.

7 hours ago, mojo43 said:

So that would work then? I'll have to try this out.

I dont know if AME would respect the interpretation set in PP for creating the proxies. Let us know if this works cause this would be an easier workaround then the one mentioned in the video above.

8 hours ago, Grimor said:

Any online tutorial or How to video, about this new proxy workflow in 2017 CC?

Actually Video Revealed has a good one that covers everything you need to know and not too much of what you don't need to know. In general I like his tutorials for this reason.

 

[Grimor]

Thanks!

[dbp]

2 hours ago, MountneerMan said:

 

I dont know if AME would respect the interpretation set in PP for creating the proxies. Let us know if this works cause this would be an easier workaround then the one mentioned in the video above.

 

It doesn't. That's the first thing I tried. Annoying, and I hope they fix it.  Just wrapped my first wedding/project with the proxy workflow. No weird issues on the render. Only thing was the interpret footage workaround. 

[joema]

6 hours ago, jgharding said:

The main reason for thinking of switching was the persistant bugs in Premiere. There are now some horrible bugs that I've been using workarounds for since years and years ago. They've been reported endlessly.

I use both Premiere CC and FCPX, although most of my work is on FCPX. There are plenty of bugs in both. I think the general consensus among unbiased people who have considerable production experience with both is that FCPX is somewhat more reliable but I have had FCPX crash and exhibit odd behavior *many* times. 

FCPX is generally faster than Premiere on the same Mac hardware but with Premiere on Windows you can more easily compensate by just getting a faster machine. FCPX has superb data organization features but IMO it's much harder for an experienced editor to change from Premiere to FCPX than from Premiere to some other track-oriented editor.

With any software you can wonder into an "island of instability", where some obtuse set characteristics keep triggering slowdowns or crashes. Yet many other users of that same software still get production work done, because their environment somehow isn't triggering the problem. The trick is identifying the problem parameters and trying to avoid them. This can unfortunately be a time-consuming treasure hunt and require a lot of trial and error. However it can be faster to do that than switching to another editor.

 

[dbp]

I used to be a huge champion of Premiere, but have since soured on it a bit over the years. Having to rely on it for work has made the bugs and instability increasingly intolerable. Certainly not all the time, but enough to be annoying. I have little experience with anything else, so I of course assume the grass is greener on the other side. I'm guessing they all have their issues though. 

[mojo43]

16 hours ago, dbp said:

I used to be a huge champion of Premiere, but have since soured on it a bit over the years. Having to rely on it for work has made the bugs and instability increasingly intolerable. Certainly not all the time, but enough to be annoying. I have little experience with anything else, so I of course assume the grass is greener on the other side. I'm guessing they all have their issues though. 

Coming from Edius, an NLE where you can drop 4k on the timeline and start editing, it is very disappointing. In terms of controls, Premiere has a lot of bells and whistles. though and I love that you can dynamic link to an AE comp. Really that is the reason why I have been using Premiere. That and my client wants me to work in Premiere.

[jgharding]

My relationship with Premiere feels more "disappointed father" than "angry kid".

Premiere is what I use for most of my living, but it does grate me.

It's like: there's all this potential to totally integrate Pp, Ae, Audition and so on, to genuinely leverage CUDA and Open CL through the whole of the pipeline instead of doing it at select stages for select processes and pretending the whole thing is accelerated. There's room to take a fresh look at layout and streamlining.

It's like they could build an amazing Russian wedding cake out of all these layers, but instead what happens year on year is a few more sweets are stuck onto each stale old victoria sponge.

Even when it comes to tiny feature requests like one we've been bombariding them with for four years they never come. It still likes to ignore audio levels in the mixer on export, that's been in it for 5 version across four different computers and OSes for me... never fixed despite nagging. It still likes to reset your audio plugins completely with no warning, to output huge 0dBFS spikes when you enable or diasable, has laggy feedback when adjusting audio plugins... never fixed. The LUT import of even their built in LUTs on Lumetri has a habit of crashing... it goes on...

But I'm of course supposed to be satisfied with an app for my phone that can look at colours and save them to the cloud.

It's a bit like being a tax payer, you just sit there open mouthed at what they spend your moeny on and think "how is this a good deal?"

Apologies for analogy overload.

Proxy workflow looks good! Lolle.

 

[dbp]

Anyone ever try use Resolve 12.5 for serious editing tasks? I was playing around with it last night, and it seems like they are getting closer and closer to making it a viable editor. Having all of their amazing color grading tools right there is a huge plus. I noticed you can create proxies in it as well.

Think for some smaller projects, I might experiment. So much of what's keeping me tied to Adobe is time, habit and nostalgia. 

[dafreaking]

I wish Adobe would start a Video only package like they have for Photographers with Photoshop + Lightroom at $10. Give us Premiere + Media Encoder for $10. 

Reconnected some 4k stuff to proxies I had made earlier. BEST. MOVE. EVER.

[mojo43]

So I was playing around with workarounds for the proxy problem with interpreting footage. Here are steps to resolving the issue.

1) import your footage into the project

2) create proxies

3) In bin, sort clips by frame rate

4) Select similar frame rates and change speed

Voila! Hope this helps someone.

[HelsinkiZim]

On 07/12/2016 at 3:22 PM, jgharding said:

The main reason for thinking of switching was the persistant bugs in Premiere. There are now some horrible bugs that I've been using workarounds for since years and years ago. They've been reported endlessly. Fixing these bugs is always ignored in favour of new flashy features. It makes me sad that they take in hundreds of millions a year and yet don't focus on solidifying core products, but instead spend fortunes on creating frivolous mobile apps and so on, which no one really uses outside of ukelele-soundtracked Instagram adverts.

I  never had a problem with Premiere, what are the biggest bugs?