EOSHD Pro Color for Sony Cameras

[markr041]

 

[markr041]

 

[HelsinkiZim]

On 02/06/2017 at 4:06 PM, markr041 said:

Rush hour slowed down, in Sony EOSHD Pro color of course.

 

Loved this. Critique:

Explore this idea more. My most enjoyable (among many) moment was the men walking like apes across the pedestrian crossing - when movements and music synced.

That slow mo marching thing can be effective if planned. All in all, the music choice (nice!) lends to a shorter piece - but your music choice to image instinct is spot on.

Play around in your city and deliver a knockout next time!

I might beat you to it....

[markr041]

 

[markr041]

 

 

[Adrian Lim]

Hi guys!

Just pulled the trigger to set my colors straight and I seem to have run into abit of a confused path here.

I followed the settings as per the pdf stated.

However, my white balances 1 (3600K) and 2 (4300K) seems to be more BLUE than anything else.

 

As you can see, the color rendition is clearly on the blueish side. 

Any pointers? 

 

Thank you

 

[Andrew Reid]

The monitor you are pointing the camera at cannot be used to set the white balance, because it sends out a bunch of blue wavelength LED light from the backlight.

You need to set the white balance off real subjects.

Use various situations like direct sunlight, cloudy weather, shade and indoor light at various positions in a room to get the desired white balances.

Or just use the Kelvin preset and dial in the K you need for a particular scene.

If you prefer, just use AWB instead.

[Adrian Lim]

Thanks for getting back to me so soon . 

I preset the K to 3.6k , 4.3k and 5.6k  prior.

i only used the monitor to show the huge difference in colour changes after altering the white balance .

 

where did I go wrong ? 

Was it the Setting of the K ? ????

 

[Andrew Reid]

That's what white balance does. It shifts the colour balance of the camera to compensate for different temperatures of light.

If you don't know how to use white balance, just set it to auto.

Your screen is emitting predominantly only one colour of blue wavelength light from the backlighting, no matter what picture overall you see on the display.

[EthanAlexander]

3 hours ago, Adrian Lim said:

Thanks for getting back to me so soon . 

I preset the K to 3.6k , 4.3k and 5.6k  prior.

i only used the monitor to show the huge difference in colour changes after altering the white balance .

 

where did I go wrong ? 

Was it the Setting of the K ? ????

 

It makes sense that your monitor would look blue on settings with low Kelvin: The lower the number the more blue and the higher the number the more orange the scene will appear. Monitors are commonly white balanced around 6500K, so it makes sense that 3600 and 4300 (and even 5600) would make it appear blue.

A better test would be simply to see if colors look correct outside, during the day at 5600K and at night at 3600.

[Ben J.]

On 7/24/2017 at 7:36 AM, Adrian Lim said:

Thanks for getting back to me so soon . 

I preset the K to 3.6k , 4.3k and 5.6k  prior.

i only used the monitor to show the huge difference in colour changes after altering the white balance .

 

where did I go wrong ? 

Was it the Setting of the K ? ????

 

Your using two different color temperatures in the scene. One is the room light which is just flooding the whole scene in what I assume 4800k or 3900k, the other is the monitor which is suppose to be set around 5600-6500k. All the sources have to be the same color temperature for best results. It's the same reason why if you are lighting a subject in a incandescent/tungsten room, and you set your kelvin to match the tungsten at around 3200k, why sunlight coming in from windows looks very blue. You have to set a custom white balance with both sources hitting the 18% grey card in order to get good mixed lighting results (or as someone said above me ^, dial it in manually till it looks correct to you).

[Dick Sweeney]

Heres one using the profile - super stoked with the colour. No additional grading has been added. 

 

 

[u4ia24]

What do you think about a comment made by Paul Leeming regarding Gamma and Color Modes? Are the Gamma modes interchangeable in EOSHD Pro Color?
 

Quote

 

Cine1 is a 109% IRE profile (higher dynamic highlight range recorded) with a more neutral curve from highlights to shadows (great for shooting ETTR and grading in post).

Cine2 is similar to Cine1 but with only 100% IRE available.

Cine3 has a more contrasty pre-curve applied with unequal highlight and shadow tonality. It is also 109% IRE.

Cine4 is like Cine3, but again with only 100% IRE available.

Of the four, Cine1 presents the most neutral starting point, with the most dynamic range capture to the 8bit 4:2:0 file format. Sony provides all this information in their documentation, for those who care to dig through it.

Regarding Color profiles, of all of them (and I tested), Pro color gives the closest match to Rec709 (which is ironic given there's an ITU709 profile, but there you go).

S.Gamut (and cine etc) versions are not optimised for 8bit 4:2:0 file formats and have significantly less tonality in that format than Pro color. In a 10bit or 12bit recording format they will provide a more graduated color palette, but for these 8bit 4:2:0 cameras it is a waste of time and actually gives you a worse starting point than Pro color.

The goal at recording time should be to record the best spread of highlight to shadow information in a neutral curve profile, with the color as close to Rec709 as possible, because that gives you the least amount of pushing/pulling in post needed to achieve 1. correct, accurate Rec709 colors, and 2. the most grading latitude possible before the 8bit 4:2:0 image breaks down (simply due to the limits of that format).

Cine4 with S.Gamut3 et al is pretty much the polar opposite of that theory. Why it ever gained widespread traction in the community, I do not know. I can only surmise that none of the early 'influencers' did the requisite testing to figure out what I figured out (and which you can test for yourself), or they didn't understand the fundamental limitations of the system they were recording to.

From there, I suppose most people simply parroted the influencers and it grew from there, with the ever present struggle and complaints about getting good skintones from Sony cameras, murky low saturation greys, etc etc.

 

 

[Gregormannschaft]

1 hour ago, u4ia24 said:

What do you think about a comment made by Paul Leeming regarding Gamma and Color Modes? Are the Gamma modes interchangeable in EOSHD Pro Color?
 

 

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I judge picture profiles by the results and not tests. Don't get me wrong, these can be very useful and it's great to know that we should all be shooting on Cine1, but the best results I have seen have been with SLOG2 and Cine4 – when I film, the best, most natural results that I've achieved, have also been with these two profiles. This, for instance, is one of the strongest A7SII videos I've seen, and it was shot using the Cine 4 and SLOG3.cine gamma combo.
 

It's a real shame this conversation is still happening to be honest. Hopefully Sony's next cameras give us further colour improvement and we move on.

[Shirozina]

There is just as much DR in Cine 2 as Cine 1.All that happens if you use Cine1 is that there is another stop of DR above the Zebra clipping point so if you use cine 2 you can use ETTR more effectivley and maximise your DR.

[u4ia24]

40 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

There is just as much DR in Cine 2 as Cine 1.All that happens if you use Cine1 is that there is another stop of DR above the Zebra clipping point so if you use cine 2 you can use ETTR more effectivley and maximise your DR.

Do you mind going into more details on how to ETTR more effectively using Cine2? Is that by setting the Zebra to a custom value? By the way what value do you set the Zebras when using the default EOSHD Pro Color settings?

A different question, does Cine1 and Cine2 have differences in color or do they just affect gamma and can be switched out if I wish?

[u4ia24]

2 hours ago, Gregormannschaft said:

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I judge picture profiles by the results and not tests. Don't get me wrong, these can be very useful and it's great to know that we should all be shooting on Cine1, but the best results I have seen have been with SLOG2 and Cine4 – when I film, the best, most natural results that I've achieved, have also been with these two profiles. This, for instance, is one of the strongest A7SII videos I've seen, and it was shot using the Cine 4 and SLOG3.cine gamma combo.

Awesome video! So just the built in PP8 with SLOG3.cine and Cine4 gamma? No EOSHD Pro Color settings?

[Gregormannschaft]

On 21/08/2017 at 4:31 PM, u4ia24 said:

Awesome video! So just the built in PP8 with SLOG3.cine and Cine4 gamma? No EOSHD Pro Color settings?

Yes, looks like that combo. And apologies for posting that here, not trying to downplay what Andrew did with his profile, which is provide a natural, punchy image straight out of the camera. The combo I posted is obviously meant for a bit of post work with colour.

[Tanka prem]

hello, first tests with the configuration and wb tips in the a7s and already want my money back. the image is smoky and greens more horrible than pp off. Any help?

[Andrew Reid]

Your white balance is crazy off in that shot.

WAAAY off.

Make the white objects look white... Use auto white balance if you find it easier.