Updated: Zhiyun Crane Jitter Issue Solved (well, sort of)

[jonpais]

I didn't realize until going on a trip to George Town, Penang, Malaysia, that, when shooting static videos of architecture, my gimbal has a shake problem. Prior to that, I'd always shot people, often moving around, and I didn't notice any unsteadiness. When examining the videos I'd shot of some of the colonial buildings in Penang, I realized my gimbal has a bad case of the jitters. Examining footage I'd shot of people before my trip, I realized I've had this issue all along. I thought it was because I'd downloaded the firmware update for Canon cameras, so I installed firmware v1.51. That didn't help either. This afternoon, I saw Zhiyun had already released yet another update, v1.52, but still no improvement. Can anyone please share some static clips of buildings, windows or anything with horizontal and vertical lines and mention which firmware you are using? I would much appreciate it.

 

[benymypony]

A temporary fix would be to apply just only 1% of Warp Stabilizer in Premiere Pro.

[Michael Ma]

I just fired up my Crane with my 12mm and 42.5mm on the GH3 and I my footage looks the same, but I can also confirm that at least for my footage, it's me shaking it.  A 3-axis gimbal is not stabilizing the vertical and lateral movements and as much as I think I'm holding it still, I am not.  It is also a fairly heavy setup which is harder for me to hold so that's why it shakes more.  At least for my case.   If you put the gimbal on a tripod, I'm sure it would be rock steady.  If it's not, then it'd say it's definitely a hardware/firmware issue.

If you want, I can put it on the GX85 which has IBIS.

[jonpais]

15 minutes ago, Michael Ma said:

I just fired up my Crane with my 12mm and 42.5mm on the GH3 and I my footage looks the same, but I can also confirm that at least for my footage, it's me shaking it.  A 3-axis gimbal is not stabilizing the vertical and lateral movements and as much as I think I'm holding it still, I am not.  It is also a fairly heavy setup which is harder for me to hold so that's why it shakes more.  At least for my case.   If you put the gimbal on a tripod, I'm sure it would be rock steady.  If it's not, then it'd say it's definitely a hardware/firmware issue.

If you want, I can put it on the GX85 which has IBIS.

Thanks, Michael. So, you're saying your footage also exhibits some jitter when trying to hold the gimbal absolutely still. If that's the case, best not to use the gimbal for static shots. Actually, I only just started to use sticks again for video work, since I recently purchased an amazing carbon fiber tripod, and believe it or not, I love working with it. I also shake quite a bit, but I did try to hold as steady as possible for the video clip above. Did you send your 42.5mm in for repair, or are you holding off? Also, I'm curious how you ever managed to balance the Nocticron on the Crane - first of all, it is heavy as hell, secondly, the barrel of the lens is so large, I couldn't even mount it on my Crane.

[JazzBox]

I tried the Crane last week with my Panasonic G7 and 2 lenese (12-40 Olympus and CY Zeiss 50): amazing piece of gear with 2 big problems.

The most important: no assistance in Italy, if something goes wrong you have to send it in China.

The less important: some vibrations when going from up to a low angle (in all mode).
It was a little better using a different screw for the camera. 
Another issue was that after some use it was not parallel to the ground anymore, and I had to use the iPhone's app to reset to a flat position.
Nothing really bad if you shoot a short or a music video, a little bad for events etc...
The smoothness for pan is not that smooth, but perfectly acceptable.

The biggest reason I did not buy is for the assistance: I need something I can easily fix in Italy.

But if you don't mind that it is an incredible tool, easy to balance (probably less then 2 minutes), FAR better then DS-1 Beholder I tried last month. 

Jonpais, try to change the screw that you use to attach the camera, maybe it could help.
 

[jonpais]

2 minutes ago, JazzBox said:

Jonpais, try to change the screw that you use to attach the camera, maybe it could help.
 

What do you recommend?

[JazzBox]

1 minute ago, jonpais said:

What do you recommend?

They changed from a plastic one to a metallic one. The bigger vibrations was going down from a normal angle to a low angle (tilting the wrist) and going from left to right, also while tilting the wrist. 

[jonpais]

Are you talking about inverted mode? Also, the screws that came with my gimbal are all metal...

[Michael Ma]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

Thanks, Michael. So, you're saying your footage also exhibits some jitter when trying to hold the gimbal absolutely still. If that's the case, best not to use the gimbal for static shots. Actually, I only just started to use sticks again for video work, since I recently purchased an amazing carbon fiber tripod, and believe it or not, I love working with it. I also shake quite a bit, but I did try to hold as steady as possible for the video clip above. Did you send your 42.5mm in for repair, or are you holding off? Also, I'm curious how you ever managed to balance the Nocticron on the Crane - first of all, it is heavy as hell, secondly, the barrel of the lens is so large, I couldn't even mount it on my Crane.

Yes, it's me trying to hold the GH3 as still as possible.  The weight is definitely a factor, and the shake is definitely the result of my struggling arms to hold it very still.  I just tried with the GX85 as well.  It was much harder to balance because of an additional base plate as a spacer, but to my surprise the IBIS although it seemed better on the 12mm only improved it slightly.  The 42.5mm....it felt like it did worse as I started seeing very rapid micro tremors at times...might be because it's so front heavy.  Anyway, my tests were relatively short and not thorough but something I'm gonna have to keep in mind if I ever put the GX85 on the gimbal with the Nocticron.

As for the GH3 in my original tests, I had no problems balancing the Nocticron on the Crane.  I'm on the old firmware as well (much before the Canon firmwares were released.  I haven't updated since).  The edge of the barrel does hit the base plate of the gimbal just a little bit, so it might not be completely flush, although, it mostly looks like it is.

Thanks for asking at the lens.  I looked at the first images that I took before the fall from the desk did not change the lens at all.  It was not sharp at the very center from the first day.  The funny thing is the lens is so much sharper at the extreme edges than it is at the very center at 1.2.  I'm actually very pleased just how well this lens performs at the very edges (on all 4 corners) at 1.2, and disappointed at how it is not sharp at the very center.  Off center, it's fine.  I think it could benefit from some adjustment.  I'm still planning to take it in, but not in a rush to do it.

BTW, if you're wondering about the spacer plate, here's what I use:

http://copter-rc.com/en/accessories/69-pilotfly-balance-plate.html

It's not perfect, but gets the job done.  I'm sure you can find better though.

 

[JazzBox]

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

Are you talking about inverted mode? Also, the screws that came with my gimbal are all metal...

No, just going from a normal eye level shot to a low angle, twisting the wrist, in order to simulate a crane shot from face to feet of a talent. (sorry for my english if it is not clear)

The first screw was made of plastic, the second one was like the one on Michael Ma pic.

[pablogrollan]

I recently received my Crane and found a different problem. The tilt motor does not seem to work properly. It fails to stabilize the gimbal and seldom responds to the joystick... What do you think, faulty motor? software problem? I updated to 1.52 and the result is the same.

The wierd thing is that the motor seems to have juice upon startup -balancing the camera at first- but then gets stuck and without any power. You can easily move it without any resistance, as if it were offline.

[Michael Ma]

I think the gyro on the tilt is bad.  It doesn't know that the pitch has changed, so it's just using the power to hold it's current position.  Have you tried knocking the motor gently with your knuckles?  I do that when the gyro on my smartphones get stuck.  I've never seen it on a gimbal.

[pablogrollan]

14 minutes ago, Michael Ma said:

I think the gyro on the tilt is bad.  It doesn't know that the pitch has changed, so it's just using the power to hold it's current position.  Have you tried knocking the motor gently with your knuckles?  I do that when the gyro on my smartphones get stuck.  I've never seen it on a gimbal.

Hi Michael. I tried knocking it gently but it doesn't react. Do you know those demo videos in which the user taps and knocks on the lens in every direction to show how strong the motors are? In my gimbal that works in every motor but the tilt. If I tap the lens, it points down loosely and there is no drag at all, as if the motor where offline... Thanks for your help!

[jonpais]

32 minutes ago, pablogrollan said:

I recently received my Crane and found a different problem. The tilt motor does not seem to work properly. It fails to stabilize the gimbal and seldom responds to the joystick... What do you think, faulty motor? software problem? I updated to 1.52 and the result is the same.

The wierd thing is that the motor seems to have juice upon startup -balancing the camera at first- but then gets stuck and without any power. You can easily move it without any resistance, as if it were offline.

I'd return it for a replacement right away. That's definitely not normal.

[jonpais]

Rose over at Zhiyun Tech sent me an email this afternoon, telling me about a new feature in firmware update v1.52 I wasn't aware of.

[pablogrollan]

51 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Rose over at Zhiyun Tech sent me an email this afternoon, telling me about a new feature in firmware update v1.52 I wasn't aware of.

Lucky you! I wrote to service@zhiyun-tech.com about my problem including the video and I'm still waiting to hear from them...

[jonpais]

On 12/6/2016 at 10:47 PM, Michael Ma said:

Yes, it's me trying to hold the GH3 as still as possible.  The weight is definitely a factor, and the shake is definitely the result of my struggling arms to hold it very still.  I just tried with the GX85 as well.  It was much harder to balance because of an additional base plate as a spacer, but to my surprise the IBIS although it seemed better on the 12mm only improved it slightly.  The 42.5mm....it felt like it did worse as I started seeing very rapid micro tremors at times...might be because it's so front heavy.  Anyway, my tests were relatively short and not thorough but something I'm gonna have to keep in mind if I ever put the GX85 on the gimbal with the Nocticron.

As for the GH3 in my original tests, I had no problems balancing the Nocticron on the Crane.  I'm on the old firmware as well (much before the Canon firmwares were released.  I haven't updated since).  The edge of the barrel does hit the base plate of the gimbal just a little bit, so it might not be completely flush, although, it mostly looks like it is.

Thanks for asking at the lens.  I looked at the first images that I took before the fall from the desk did not change the lens at all.  It was not sharp at the very center from the first day.  The funny thing is the lens is so much sharper at the extreme edges than it is at the very center at 1.2.  I'm actually very pleased just how well this lens performs at the very edges (on all 4 corners) at 1.2, and disappointed at how it is not sharp at the very center.  Off center, it's fine.  I think it could benefit from some adjustment.  I'm still planning to take it in, but not in a rush to do it.

BTW, if you're wondering about the spacer plate, here's what I use:

http://copter-rc.com/en/accessories/69-pilotfly-balance-plate.html

It's not perfect, but gets the job done.  I'm sure you can find better though.

 

 

Michael, Did you try using the little gizmo that comes with the Crane that screws into the baseplate and fits under the lens to hold it steady? 

[pablogrollan]

Literally five minutes after my comment I received an email from Rose Tan followed by an email from Greg at CVP, both showing interest in solving my problem. Unfortunately, it seems I received a defective unit and will need to be replaced. Thank you jonpais and Michael for your help and insights on this gimbal!

[jonpais]

Glad to hear, Pablo! I've been corresponding with Rose since forever, and she's always replied the same day, sometimes even when she's no longer at work. I see she even subscribed to my YouTube channel, which shows that Zhiyun is really interested in customer feedback. Great company!

[Michael Ma]

5 hours ago, jonpais said:

Michael, Did you try using the little gizmo that comes with the Crane that screws into the baseplate and fits under the lens to hold it steady? 

Ah, that gizmo.  Thanks for the tip!  I've never tried it but with some tweaking, I think it has some potential of pushing the weight back on a front heavy camera.  I'll try it when I need to mount the Nocticron + GX85 on the Crane.