To Buy, Or Not To Buy: The Canon 1DX mk II

[Oliver Daniel]

Hello all Gear Acquisition Syndrome sufferers, 

I would say that I don't have this disease, but I usually want a piece of gear because I feel there's a need for it. 

Currently I have an FS5 with EF lenses, and a DJI X5R Osmo - the latter of which I'm thinking of selling (for an actual gimbal like the Letus Helix Jr). 

I'm not really getting what I want from the Osmo (limited movement) and I don't have a stills camera, because I sold them. (Sony and Panasonic cameras). 

I'm drawn to the Canon 1DX II because of the DPAF and 4k60p for gimbals and motion slider shots. The autofocus and 4k60p combination would really help me out (better camera movement, better focusing, high quality, increased production value = more profit). 

The stills capability would be bloody great too. 

I have the money to get the 1DX II, but then again I want to upgrade my car. Been having these weird thoughts about buying the Canon 1DX II, making my money back quickly, recouping the funds and then upgrading my car. Sounds perfect, but we all know it isn't as simple as that. 

I'd get the camera in a heartbeat if I knew I could make my money back quickly. So i could get the car upgrade later. 

What do you think? 

(p.s, if you suffer with GAS - please be mindful I believe in money well spent rather than impulsive, expensive mistakes). 

[Tim Sewell]

Will upgrading your car earn you any extra money in the short or mid-term? The camera will, even if it takes a while.

[bigfoot]

Don't, 

in your situation, I would just wait for the sony a9 or a7pro /whatever it's going to be call. Keep the workflow easy with sony and same color gamut - no need for massive files... Or even get the inspire 2 with the x5s 

[gt3rs]

1 hour ago, bigfoot said:

Don't, 

in your situation, I would just wait for the sony a9 or a7pro /whatever it's going to be call. Keep the workflow easy with sony and same color gamut - no need for massive files... Or even get the inspire 2 with the x5s 

Ah ah this is funny, the OP wants a camera on a gimbal with AF presumably for also shallow DOF and you say the file are too massive instead buy a Inspire with x5s !?

Is like "I need a boat" "yes sure you should buy an airplane". In fact both transport people....

Did you check how big are the file from the x5s either RAW or Prores? I can help you, they are bigger than the ones from the 1dx II.  You saw a paid by DJI DP using the drone as a gimbal and you think is something practical to do?

Last but not least the x5s doesn't have a continuous autofocus, a screen, etc.... You cannot use long lens because the gimbal would not support them and the list goes on....

Having a 1dx II and a Phantom 4 pro I wished the P4p would use MJPEG or Prores instead of this (yes tiny) but non editable LGOP h264 or worst h265 that needs transcoding before using it in Resolve.

Don't get me wrong the Inspire 2 with the x5s seems super it is just a great tool for a totally different needs than the 1Dx. Also curious to see the 4k 60p of the x5s because the P4p at 60p is doing line skipping....

 

[DBounce]

It's a no brainer... You've been on the fence with the 1DXMk2 for quite some time. The 1DXMk2 is not a camera you need to second guess. It is 100% professional and will get the job done. DJI cameras are still a work in progress. Granted I do like the potential of the X5S, but I would wait until the smoke settles before committing to that. Also, flagship Canons do not become obsolete evey six months like Sonys do. So you can be assured of decent resale within the next few years. Plus you already own Canon glass. Trust me, having used the A7RMk2 and A7Mk2 with the Metabones, I can tell you with absolute confidence that Canon glass performs best on a native Canon body. 

Take the plunge, you will be happy you did.

[Davey]

4 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Hello all Gear Acquisition Syndrome sufferers, 

I would say that I don't have this disease, but I usually want a piece of gear because I feel there's a need for it. 

Currently I have an FS5 with EF lenses, and a DJI X5R Osmo - the latter of which I'm thinking of selling (for an actual gimbal like the Letus Helix Jr). 

I'm not really getting what I want from the Osmo (limited movement) and I don't have a stills camera, because I sold them. (Sony and Panasonic cameras). 

I'm drawn to the Canon 1DX II because of the DPAF and 4k60p for gimbals and motion slider shots. The autofocus and 4k60p combination would really help me out (better camera movement, better focusing, high quality, increased production value = more profit). 

The stills capability would be bloody great too. 

I have the money to get the 1DX II, but then again I want to upgrade my car. Been having these weird thoughts about buying the Canon 1DX II, making my money back quickly, recouping the funds and then upgrading my car. Sounds perfect, but we all know it isn't as simple as that. 

I'd get the camera in a heartbeat if I knew I could make my money back quickly. So i could get the car upgrade later. 

What do you think? 

(p.s, if you suffer with GAS - please be mindful I believe in money well spent rather than impulsive, expensive mistakes). 

If your work is anything to go by you should get your money back on both a 1DX MK2 and a car in no time. You have a fantastic portfolio.

[gt3rs]

5 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Hello all Gear Acquisition Syndrome sufferers, 

I would say that I don't have this disease, but I usually want a piece of gear because I feel there's a need for it. 

Currently I have an FS5 with EF lenses, and a DJI X5R Osmo - the latter of which I'm thinking of selling (for an actual gimbal like the Letus Helix Jr). 

I'm not really getting what I want from the Osmo (limited movement) and I don't have a stills camera, because I sold them. (Sony and Panasonic cameras). 

I'm drawn to the Canon 1DX II because of the DPAF and 4k60p for gimbals and motion slider shots. The autofocus and 4k60p combination would really help me out (better camera movement, better focusing, high quality, increased production value = more profit). 

The stills capability would be bloody great too. 

I have the money to get the 1DX II, but then again I want to upgrade my car. Been having these weird thoughts about buying the Canon 1DX II, making my money back quickly, recouping the funds and then upgrading my car. Sounds perfect, but we all know it isn't as simple as that. 

I'd get the camera in a heartbeat if I knew I could make my money back quickly. So i could get the car upgrade later. 

What do you think? 

(p.s, if you suffer with GAS - please be mindful I believe in money well spent rather than impulsive, expensive mistakes). 

Considering that you are undecided since a while now why you don't rent it for a day with a CFast card and try it out? You have enough experience to get something out in 1 day and have a peace of mind.

I have owned all the 1d series since the III and I could always sell it quite well usually around 50% loss in 3 years.

[Oliver Daniel]

9 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

Will upgrading your car earn you any extra money in the short or mid-term? The camera will, even if it takes a while.

True. Baby is getting bigger. So when she's got too big I'll be ready  

 

8 hours ago, bigfoot said:

Don't, 

in your situation, I would just wait for the sony a9 or a7pro /whatever it's going to be call. Keep the workflow easy with sony and same color gamut - no need for massive files... Or even get the inspire 2 with the x5s 

You missed the bit where I need autofocus with EF lenses. Don't know how the Inspire 2 is meant to fit in. 

 

6 hours ago, DBounce said:

It's a no brainer... You've been on the fence with the 1DXMk2 for quite some time. The 1DXMk2 is not a camera you need to second guess. It is 100% professional and will get the job done. DJI cameras are still a work in progress. Granted I do like the potential of the X5S, but I would wait until the smoke settles before committing to that. Also, flagship Canons do not become obsolete evey six months like Sonys do. So you can be assured of decent resale within the next few years. Plus you already own Canon glass. Trust me, having used the A7RMk2 and A7Mk2 with the Metabones, I can tell you with absolute confidence that Canon glass performs best on a native Canon body. 

Take the plunge, you will be happy you did.

Haha yeah, I've being going back and forth. I always seem to get drawn to it. 

The reason is because I require top end autofocus on a gimbal (with 4K 60p a must) and also stills. I can't really think of anything  else. What cards are you using? They are pricey. Also, from what I know, you have a Helix Jr? How is it? (Movement, balancing, monitoring). 

5 hours ago, Davey said:

If your work is anything to go by you should get your money back on both a 1DX MK2 and a car in no time. You have a fantastic portfolio.

Thank you. Always looking to do better and find the right type of clients. It's a tough one out there. 

5 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Considering that you are undecided since a while now why you don't rent it for a day with a CFast card and try it out? You have enough experience to get something out in 1 day and have a peace of mind.

I have owned all the 1d series since the III and I could always sell it quite well usually around 50% loss in 3 years.

I always do this actually. I'm going to my local camera shop this weekend to give it a quick whirl. 

[andrgl]

Only worth it if you need 4K60. Otherwise an insane waste of money, need new: cards CFAST, glass STM, batteries.

Not to be a shithead, but we all know the gear doesn't do anything. Production value is all: sets, lighting, camera moves and gimmicks.

Too bad Blackmagic can't fucking ship a solid product yet. I bet the UM4.6K is almost the perfect cam for you.

 

[DBounce]

7 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

 

Haha yeah, I've being going back and forth. I always seem to get drawn to it. 

The reason is because I require top end autofocus on a gimbal (with 4K 60p a must) and also stills. I can't really think of anything  else. What cards are you using? They are pricey. Also, from what I know, you have a Helix Jr? How is it? (Movement, balancing, monitoring). 

 

Been running the Lexar 256GB 3600 cards. No issues... Here. The Helix Jr is great. Easily handles the weight of the camera and does not need to be fiddled with every time you change zoom on the lenses. Movement is smooth. I mount my smartphone to the camera or handle to monitor, so I can tap to focus. It's a great package.

[bigfoot]

If I had a fs5 laying around; it would be quite odd to add a 1dx just to babysit my g.a.s. syndrome. 

4k60 ?

Slap that lens to hyperfocal at f11 or read the next chapter below...

 

Remote follow focus Or even a 5d could balance out the kit a bit more efficiently - yes even though it's out of your box ticking typa thing. Same goes for my first reply.

It's not like I need to read you guys quoting my personnal vote if you keep asuming that I haven't read yours in the first place and consider the man of the forest to be a dumb numb. 

There's no right or wrong, only mesurebating numbers here.

Also, I don't think i need to explain what a misnegation means. That would be quite odd situation - english is my third langage

 

[gt3rs]

4 hours ago, andrgl said:

Only worth it if you need 4K60. Otherwise an insane waste of money, need new: cards CFAST, glass STM, batteries.

Not to be a shithead, but we all know the gear doesn't do anything. Production value is all: sets, lighting, camera moves and gimmicks.

Too bad Blackmagic can't fucking ship a solid product yet. I bet the UM4.6K is almost the perfect cam for you.

 

STM?!? The DPAF works with almost all EF lenses and I have done commercial work with 24 1.4, 50 1.2, 70-200 2.8 II, 16-35 2.8 II and my last project with the 200-400 F4 using DPAF on professional Ice hockey players for a TV spot.

Waste of money it really depends, how much you loose in value on a Sony A7 in 3 years and on a 1Dx, the difference maybe 300 USD a year so not sure that is a waste.

4K60 with shallow DOF on the gimbal is the unique proposition of this camera. Depending on your style and needs it can be a waste or a real money making.

 

1 hour ago, bigfoot said:

 

Slap that lens to hyperfocal at f11 or read the next chapter below...

 

Remote follow focus Or even a 5d could balance out the kit a bit more efficiently - yes even though it's out of your box ticking typa thing. Same goes for my first reply.

 

So to save money your suggestion is to use a remote follow focus that cost more than the difference between a 5D and a 1Dx and needs an additional guy working on set....

Or simply shoot all at f11, yeah why not use an iPhone then http://www.4kshooters.net/2016/12/05/how-does-the-iphone-7-plus-video-hold-up-against-the-50000-red-weapon-footage/

People should first try the DPAF with a 50 at 1.2 while both subject and camera operator move on a gimbal and then speak. It is really insane how it works. Is it perfect? Sure not and sometime I need to retake the scene but if you learn how the system behave you can pull some amazing moving shallow doff scenes.

[bigfoot]

Come on - the guy obviously doesn't need to save money, stop saying stuff i've never said... You are overanalysing and having a close mind to any other perspective as far as Im concern.

 

There is so many options out there ... Personnaly(again) I would put that remote on the gimbal and operate it myself, get a thumbcontroller or whatever and pratice practice pratice practice practice. Give it a bit of time and you'll nail those F1.2 shots every single time. DPAF is a great auto tool - sure ... But I like to be in control of my own quality of life. Auto is fine for a sunday drive

 

Anyway the next sony with one native lens will most likely kill canon at there own games. Can't always put your eggs in the same basket. A6500 is getting close, and knowing sony for their passive-agressive move ... Well let's see

[DBounce]

35 minutes ago, bigfoot said:

Come on - the guy obviously doesn't need to save money, stop saying stuff i've never said... You are overanalysing and having a close mind to any other perspective as far as Im concern.

 

There is so many options out there ... Personnaly(again) I would put that remote on the gimbal and operate it myself, get a thumbcontroller or whatever and pratice practice pratice practice practice. Give it a bit of time and you'll nail those F1.2 shots every single time. DPAF is a great auto tool - sure ... But I like to be in control of my own quality of life. Auto is fine for a sunday drive

 

Anyway the next sony with one native lens will most likely kill canon at there own games. Can't always put your eggs in the same basket. A6500 is getting close, and knowing sony for their passive-agressive move ... Well let's see

Nail it every time? Yeah, sure. Before dismissing the Canon, you should first give it a try. I know of no one that has used this system that has not been impressed with it. 

Plus the 1DXMkii2 is built like a tank and weather sealed. It will stand up to environments that will destroy an FS5. Also it is stealthier than a traditional video camera. 

Fyi: I own no STM glass, only L series, and it all works flawlessly. 

Lastly, glorious Canon colors. Nuff said.

[bigfoot]

Ok, what do say to your client for a retake - Sorry the algorithm fuck'd it up? 

 

Of course i'm not dimissing the 1dx tank capacity and abilities - it's a wonderfull tool. Please tell me witch gimbal is weatherproof right now? 

[Andrew Reid]

The 1D X Mark II on a proper gimbal sounds like overkill when you can get an E-M1 II or wait for the GH5 and have 5 axis IBIS.

[andrgl]

5 hours ago, gt3rs said:

and my last project with the 200-400 F4 using DPAF on professional Ice hockey players for a TV spot.

Got a link to share? I'm always curious to see Canon's C-line produce cinematic pictures.

[Oliver Daniel]

11 hours ago, andrgl said:

Only worth it if you need 4K60. Otherwise an insane waste of money, need new: cards CFAST, glass STM, batteries.

Not to be a shithead, but we all know the gear doesn't do anything. Production value is all: sets, lighting, camera moves and gimmicks.

Too bad Blackmagic can't fucking ship a solid product yet. I bet the UM4.6K is almost the perfect cam for you.

 

The Ursa Mini 4.6 was close but it didn't quite tick the boxes where HFR is concerned. 

I'm with you on the gear thing - this is the reason I don't own a gazillion cameras and lenses. And if any tool isn't benefiting the overall production values - I get rid. 

42 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The 1D X Mark II on a proper gimbal sounds like overkill when you can get an E-M1 II or wait for the GH5 and have 5 axis IBIS.

I'm fully aware of these and the very cool 5-axis, however, we are talking about a device which can keep precise focus while pulling off some very smooth, orbiting camera movements. 

The X5R Osmo is great at some stuff, however it falls to bits when trying anything a little adventurous. (running smoothly at f2 around a rock vocalist in 360 motion). Many of my shots are being ruined as the gimbal bounces, jolts and readjusts, harming the movement of the shot. 

Previously I've had a BeSteady (now ACR Systems) and a Ronin-M. Both gimbals offer superior movement to 5-axis systems and the Osmo. However there were issues, and I felt limited as a single operator keeping focus and monitoring my shots. 

My productions require high production values, so if a piece of equipment is limiting me too much, I sell it or don't use it for rental. 

My business requires a great stills camera, with top quality autofocus and 4k60p for adventurous gimbal movement and motion control, that will make use of my EF lenses. I currently can't think of anything better than the 1DX II. 

Other options? 

- Wait for the GH5 and put it on a pistol grip gimbal for fluid movement (yet, I don't know what the camera performance will be like). Get an 80d for stills. 

- Keep the Osmo X5R and see what DJI have in store for their X5S Osmo. Get an 80d for stills. 

- Buy an Atomos Shogun Inferno for the FS5. Sell the Osmo X5R and get a Helix Jr. Change EF lenses to Sony lenses and grab the A6500 for stills. Sacrifice DPAF. 

Open to any suggestions like. I'm in no rush, getting ready for the new year. 

7 hours ago, DBounce said:

Been running the Lexar 256GB 3600 cards. No issues... Here. The Helix Jr is great. Easily handles the weight of the camera and does not need to be fiddled with every time you change zoom on the lenses. Movement is smooth. I mount my smartphone to the camera or handle to monitor, so I can tap to focus. It's a great package.

Do you have any of your own examples online of the 1DX II used with the Helix Jr? 

Thanks for the link and suggestion too. 

[gt3rs]

4 hours ago, bigfoot said:

There is so many options out there ... Personnaly(again) I would put that remote on the gimbal and operate it myself, get a thumbcontroller or whatever and pratice practice pratice practice practice. Give it a bit of time and you'll nail those F1.2 shots every single time. DPAF is a great auto tool - sure ... But I like to be in control of my own quality of life. Auto is fine for a sunday drive

 

It is called progress, when the AF first came on film dslr there was many sports photographer saying the same as you.... I can do it better, I want to have control... Now there is no single sports photographer doing manual AF. While you practice, practice, practice, I do earn money..

To have better movement when the terrain allows it I film while on rollerblades... so try to focus, frame and skate.. but I agree not every body needs this but it seems that the OP is looking for a 4k 60 with AF on gimbal, and this is what I do a lot of times. Before it was f11 16-20mm now is also 50 1.2..

3 hours ago, bigfoot said:

Ok, what do say to your client for a retake - Sorry the algorithm fuck'd it up? 

I'm glad that you with your manual focusing with a thumb controller on a gimbal can nail shallow DOF gimbal shots 100% of time (I'm guessing that you don't really do it because is super hard).

I work a lot for advertisement and also with pro athletes that cannot get it right neither and so we retake sometime for heir mistake, sometime to have different angles so when I'm not getting it right for my mistake I retake and my clients never complains. If I know is something that I can get only one try I do your way F11....but is rare.

[gt3rs]

2 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I'm fully aware of these and the very cool 5-axis, however, we are talking about a device which can keep precise focus while pulling off some very smooth, orbiting camera movements. 

The X5R Osmo is great at some stuff, however it falls to bits when trying anything a little adventurous. (running smoothly at f2 around a rock vocalist in 360 motion). Many of my shots are being ruined as the gimbal bounces, jolts and readjusts, harming the movement of the shot. 

Previously I've had a BeSteady (now ACR Systems) and a Ronin-M. Both gimbals offer superior movement to 5-axis systems and the Osmo. However there were issues, and I felt limited as a single operator keeping focus and monitoring my shots. 

My productions require high production values, so if a piece of equipment is limiting me too much, I sell it or don't use it for rental. 

My business requires a great stills camera, with top quality autofocus and 4k60p for adventurous gimbal movement and motion control, that will make use of my EF lenses. I currently can't think of anything better than the 1DX II. 

Other options? 

- Wait for the GH5 and put it on a pistol grip gimbal for fluid movement (yet, I don't know what the camera performance will be like). Get an 80d for stills. 

- Keep the Osmo X5R and see what DJI have in store for their X5S Osmo. Get an 80d for stills. 

- Buy an Atomos Shogun Inferno for the FS5. Sell the Osmo X5R and get a Helix Jr. Change EF lenses to Sony lenses and grab the A6500 for stills. Sacrifice DPAF. 

Open to any suggestions like. I'm in no rush, getting ready for the new year. 

Do you have any of your own examples online of the 1DX II used with the Helix Jr? 

Thanks for the link and suggestion too. 

As far as I have looked in to it the X5s it will not have continuous AF but someday they will get it and improve the latency with the tablet/phone and it will be a really compelling system. Also curious to see if the X5s is not doing line skipping at 60fpst because the P4p (basically a X4s) is doing line skipping at 60p so quite a bit of quality drop from 4k 30 than 60.

I'm really happy with the 1Dx II on the Ronin M, if you use the Face AF and the face of the subject is very visible it works very well, for 360 orbits I use continues AF and focus on keeping the AF square on the subject and most of the time I nail it.

If you are used to the Ronin M I really suggest to rent them both for 1 day and test it. You would need extension rods for the Ronin M but for a test you can simply unscrew the rods caps and gain a bit on the tilt axis.

Regarding CFast cards, many BMC users have brought eBay CFast Lexar 3400 discontinued model. I was a bit worried but I took the risk and ordered one 256 GB for 260 USD after some testing I brought a second one for 300 USD. Since end of May and many TB of video and photos never had a problem. But you need to judge the risk here, I read that somebody had a problem and sent it to Lexar and got replaced with a new 3600. It seems now that they want much more money on ebay...

 

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The 1D X Mark II on a proper gimbal sounds like overkill when you can get an E-M1 II or wait for the GH5 and have 5 axis IBIS.

In my opinion this is really where it shines 4k with a bit of slow motion with shallow DOF on a gimbal as a one man band.
As far as I know E-M1 II can't do 4k 60p but I have no experience with the AF so I can't comment.

Always waiting because something better will show up is a good money saving approach because at the end you will never buy anything. I'm sure that the Sony A7s IIIIII will do 8k 240fps with super AF, full frame but right now is 6 months that I'm using the 1Dx II....

Of course if you never shoot stills, never need 4k 60p and don't care for shallow DOF with camera in movement then the 1Dx II is a total waste of money.