To Buy, Or Not To Buy: The Canon 1DX mk II

[bigfoot]

40 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

It is called progress, when the AF first came on film dslr there was many sports photographer saying the same as you.... I can do it better, I want to have control... Now there is no single sports photographer doing manual AF. While you practice, practice, practice, I do earn money..

To have better movement when the terrain allows it I film while on rollerblades... so try to focus, frame and skate.. but I agree not every body needs this but it seems that the OP is looking for a 4k 60 with AF on gimbal, and this is what I do a lot of times. Before it was f11 16-20mm now is also 50 1.2..

I'm glad that you with your manual focusing with a thumb controller on a gimbal can nail shallow DOF gimbal shots 100% of time (I'm guessing that you don't really do it because is super hard).

I work a lot for advertisement and also with pro athletes that cannot get it right neither and so we retake sometime for heir mistake, sometime to have different angles so when I'm not getting it right for my mistake I retake and my clients never complains. If I know is something that I can get only one try I do your way F11....but is rare.

It's like talking to wall, You only listen to reply not to understand. All I've said is in a theoretical world base only on my personal opinion. I have a vision that we obviously don't share and that's ok - it's fine. Base on the OP responds, he's a smart man, he knows what is doing...

I've been doing sport photography for a long time - I use manual focus 100% of the time... I shoot ski and mtb with 3 offline flashs to freeze the action and autofocus is just damn too stupid to work in those situation. Pre compose and pre focus. Does that mean I'm not a sport photographer? - not every one shoot on the side of a field as I'm sure you are aware...

The right tool for the right job. 

Back on topic...

 

[Oliver Daniel]

46 minutes ago, bigfoot said:

It's like talking to wall, You only listen to reply not to understand. All I've said is in a theoretical world base only on my personal opinion. I have a vision that we obviously don't share and that's ok - it's fine. Base on the OP responds, he's a smart man, he knows what is doing...

I've been doing sport photography for a long time - I use manual focus 100% of the time... I shoot ski and mtb with 3 offline flashs to freeze the action and autofocus is just damn too stupid to work in those situation. Pre compose and pre focus. Does that mean I'm not a sport photographer? - not every one shoot on the side of a field as I'm sure you are aware...

The right tool for the right job. 

Back on topic...

 

No worries, we all have different needs and opinions. 

How many of you have too many cameras when you should focus on one or two? I guess a little stumbling block for me is that I've recently got an FS5, which is doing well, and I'll be upgrading the firmware once Atomos sort the Inferno out. It's a totally different tool to the 1DX II, and as a video guy who likes to keep his kit concise, controlled and well used... it's important to make sure my FS5 goes through the battle test. 

The 1DX II does fill a void for shallow DOF camera movement, with the bonus of monster stills capability. 

I guess Sony are coming with this A9 flagship very soon too. It might make cheeseburgers or something more "groundbreaking". 

[Andrew Reid]

OK if you're doing the sweeping 360 degree rotations and complex shots then I can see why you need the AF to lock on reliably from a gimbal rather than try the E-M1 II. It's good but it has limits. Also if you lack a stills camera the 1D X Mark II is a no brainer then, and the double expense it costs compared to, say, a 5D Mark III, is worth it for the AF. The AF in video mode is the most bullet proof reliable there is. The Sony system can hold a face for a few seconds then dart off to the background for absolutely no reason. Canon's Dual Pixel AF doesn't do that so the investment is worth it if the shoot pays for the extra reliability and production quality.

It is a long term investment and won't be obsolete in 1-2 years. Maybe 5-6 and by then it will have paid for itself many times over.

Sod the car and invest in the source of the original profit!

Much as I love the stabilisation, E-M1 II is a tricky investment at close to £2000 with the GH5 just around the corner and I have decided not to bother, in part because ISO 3200/6400 isn't much improved... still quite a noisy camera compared to the 1D C and 1D X Mark II.

[gt3rs]

2 hours ago, bigfoot said:

It's like talking to wall, You only listen to reply not to understand. All I've said is in a theoretical world base only on my personal opinion. I have a vision that we obviously don't share and that's ok - it's fine. Base on the OP responds, he's a smart man, he knows what is doing...

I've been doing sport photography for a long time - I use manual focus 100% of the time... I shoot ski and mtb with 3 offline flashs to freeze the action and autofocus is just damn too stupid to work in those situation. Pre compose and pre focus. Does that mean I'm not a sport photographer? - not every one shoot on the side of a field as I'm sure you are aware...

The right tool for the right job. 

Back on topic...

 

You offer a "in theoretical world base only on my personal opinion" without owning a 1Dx or a Gimbal.... I'm offering a real world opinion using the 1Dx II on a gimbal at 4k 60p using AF in a similar way that the OP is intending to use.
You are probably much more skilled and talented than me but the OP did try in real world your "theoretical" approach manual focusing on a gimbal and he was not so happy and I know why, because I'm been there and I don't want to return doing that way.

I'm really not sure why you cannot use AF with strobe, these are all done with the 1Dx, strobe and using AF (including long lenses, night shots, backlight, etc...:

 

 

 

 

[bigfoot]

Well done sir - you prove your point, owning 10 000$ of the lastest gear will make your life easier to get some good images. But i don't think that's what eos hd is all about. 

 

(Still I wouldnt try AF ever again with my current kit for sport ...d70s / 7d / 3 x sb26/28 with cybersync)

 

Maybe try to talk with a friend about that low self esteem - you got some great skills... Never put yourself down and stop assuming i'm trying to make any impression here 

 

 

[Matthew19]

I do a fair amount of music demos and the 1DX II has been amazing on a gimbal. I LOVE the 4K, and the AF isnt just for shallow DOF movement. Big long pushes with deep DOF still benefit from the DPAF. But keep in mind that the sweet touchscreen isn't available on a gimbal, I'm currently testing ways to get it to work with my iphone.

This is a teaser for a Music video, so not synced up or anything :

 

[Andrew Reid]

All cameras should have a seamless 60fps video link to phones on set. It's ridiculous how not smart they are in the year nearly-2017.

[Ty Harper]

Have 1DX MKII users tested their units for the pixel/heating issues that were affecting the 1DC? 

Seems like a serious issue that some thought would carry over to the 1DX MKII...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?333479-Dead-Pixels-random-errors-terrible-support-anyone-else

[gt3rs]

9 hours ago, Matthew19 said:

But keep in mind that the sweet touchscreen isn't available on a gimbal, I'm currently testing ways to get it to work with my iphone.

It works quite well with the Canon WFT (there is no excuse that the camera should have it integrated) and an iphone. I mount the iphone on a cheap manfrotto mini clamp and phone holder on the gimbal so I can control the focus with touch. I still use a 7'' monitor for framing because the latency on the wifi is a bit annoying especially when moving fast. It is a bit stupid to have two screens on the gimbal handle and it is adding more weight on something already heavy but it works.

On the cheap side you can even buy a small battery power router ca. 30 usd and use the camera Ethernet port but for me is one battery more to charge and one cable more on the gimbal that I want to avoid. Before getting the WFT I tested with this one: http://www.dx.com/p/hame-mpr-a1-wifi-802-11b-g-n-wireless-3g-router-w-1800mah-battery-charger-dongle-122121#.WE5kvYWcF2Q that I used to use on my old 1Dx.

I never tested but I believe that an android phone or tablet could do this role connecting directly to the 1Dx II usb and there you will also have a bit less latency. I did test it with a Surface Pro and it works fine but it is not a device that you want to mount on a gimbal:-)

9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

All cameras should have a seamless 60fps video link to phones on set. It's ridiculous how not smart they are in the year nearly-2017.

Unfortunately the why that streaming video over wifi  works it always introduce latency. Best case is 100-200ms worst case can be up to 1 second or so... Encoding 60fps signal for wifi streaming is also computationally expensive because you need to encode it for a much smaller bandwidth so higher compression. So if a camera needs to encode and save a 4k 60p stream at 400 mbps h264 it needs to re-encode a second version at 1080p 60fps at 5/10 mbps.... and it introduces latency due to encoder, http/udp streaming, decoder, player...
Just look at the price of sub 100ms latency wireless (non wifi based) video solutions and you get an idea why it is not so easy or cheap. With the drone industry exploding more and more money goes in to solving digital wireless video transmission latency, range and price. Problem is that most, if not all, "zero latency" solution on the market they don't use standard wifi so you will need a external receiver. This is why DJI Lightbridge is a USB based solution because the video receiver it is in the remote controller and it still has latency.
 

[Matthew19]

On 12/10/2016 at 1:06 PM, gt3rs said:

As far as I have looked in to it the X5s it will not have continuous AF but someday they will get it and improve the latency with the tablet/phone and it will be a really compelling system. Also curious to see if the X5s is not doing line skipping at 60fpst because the P4p (basically a X4s) is doing line skipping at 60p so quite a bit of quality drop from 4k 30 than 60.

I'm really happy with the 1Dx II on the Ronin M, if you use the Face AF and the face of the subject is very visible it works very well, for 360 orbits I use continues AF and focus on keeping the AF square on the subject and most of the time I nail it.

If you are used to the Ronin M I really suggest to rent them both for 1 day and test it. You would need extension rods for the Ronin M but for a test you can simply unscrew the rods caps and gain a bit on the tilt axis.

Regarding CFast cards, many BMC users have brought eBay CFast Lexar 3400 discontinued model. I was a bit worried but I took the risk and ordered one 256 GB for 260 USD after some testing I brought a second one for 300 USD. Since end of May and many TB of video and photos never had a problem. But you need to judge the risk here, I read that somebody had a problem and sent it to Lexar and got replaced with a new 3600. It seems now that they want much more money on ebay...

 

In my opinion this is really where it shines 4k with a bit of slow motion with shallow DOF on a gimbal as a one man band.
As far as I know E-M1 II can't do 4k 60p but I have no experience with the AF so I can't comment.

Always waiting because something better will show up is a good money saving approach because at the end you will never buy anything. I'm sure that the Sony A7s IIIIII will do 8k 240fps with super AF, full frame but right now is 6 months that I'm using the 1Dx II....

Of course if you never shoot stills, never need 4k 60p and don't care for shallow DOF with camera in movement then the 1Dx II is a total waste of money.

Which Wft are you using?

 

I'm  trying to find a way to go LAN out straight into the phone to get rid of latency.

 

There are people that do it for internet connection with iPads. 

[Oliver Daniel]

On 10/12/2016 at 9:00 PM, Andrew Reid said:

OK if you're doing the sweeping 360 degree rotations and complex shots then I can see why you need the AF to lock on reliably from a gimbal rather than try the E-M1 II. It's good but it has limits. Also if you lack a stills camera the 1D X Mark II is a no brainer then, and the double expense it costs compared to, say, a 5D Mark III, is worth it for the AF. The AF in video mode is the most bullet proof reliable there is. The Sony system can hold a face for a few seconds then dart off to the background for absolutely no reason. Canon's Dual Pixel AF doesn't do that so the investment is worth it if the shoot pays for the extra reliability and production quality.

It is a long term investment and won't be obsolete in 1-2 years. Maybe 5-6 and by then it will have paid for itself many times over.

Sod the car and invest in the source of the original profit!

Much as I love the stabilisation, E-M1 II is a tricky investment at close to £2000 with the GH5 just around the corner and I have decided not to bother, in part because ISO 3200/6400 isn't much improved... still quite a noisy camera compared to the 1D C and 1D X Mark II.

Yes - this is exactly what I'm getting at.  

I really like my FS5 and it has a great purpose in my work. So versatile. 

With the 1DX II - I've got the stills and a very reliable gimbal camera. So many shots can get ruined on gimbals if the autofocus is crap... or you are stuck with shoot on a mega-wide lens at f8. 

I'm not going to jump on it just yet - still got some homework/sums to do as I don't want to make an expensive mistake. 

[gt3rs]

45 minutes ago, Matthew19 said:

Which Wft are you using?

 

I'm  trying to find a way to go LAN out straight into the phone to get rid of latency.

 

There are people that do it for internet connection with iPads. 

canon wft-e8b (in ch was on sale for 370 usd)

In theory with an iPad Ethernet lighting adapter you will be able to go directly to the camera but you will not reduce the latency that much (<3-5 ms at best). The latency problem is more due to video streaming over ip than wifi vs. cable. But you can try with a PC or a Mac and EOS utility through the Ethernet port of the camera to see how it works, although EOS Utility is different than the iOS app so is not apple to apple although is apple:-). I'm sure that over Ethernet would be slower than over usb (that has also some latency from my test).

Also if I'm not wrong there is no official iPad Ethernet adapter and the iOS has some issue with the custom solution that goes from lighting to usb to Add to dictionary adapter.

[Matthew19]

3 hours ago, gt3rs said:

canon wft-e8b (in ch was on sale for 370 usd)

 

Wait, where did this go on sale? I can't even find a used one!

[tomekk]

14 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

Have 1DX MKII users tested their units for the pixel/heating issues that were affecting the 1DC? 

Seems like a serious issue that some thought would carry over to the 1DX MKII...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?333479-Dead-Pixels-random-errors-terrible-support-anyone-else

Wow, this seems like a serious issue if true. 

[photographer-at-large]

15 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

Have 1DX MKII users tested their units for the pixel/heating issues that were affecting the 1DC? 

Seems like a serious issue that some thought would carry over to the 1DX MKII...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?333479-Dead-Pixels-random-errors-terrible-support-anyone-else

Except, sensor in 1DxII is completely different dual pixel design.

[Ty Harper]

30 minutes ago, tomekk said:

Wow, this seems like a serious issue if true. 

Reading through the actual thread, I'm hard pressed to not believe it. There are several 1DC owners that report the same issue. I only saw one thread covering the issue over here. But I'm more interested in hearing from 1DX MK II users. 

[Matthew19]

58 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

Reading through the actual thread, I'm hard pressed to not believe it. There are several 1DC owners that report the same issue. I only saw one thread covering the issue over here. But I'm more interested in hearing from 1DX MK II users. 

 

This issue was a real problem for some 1DC owners. From what I understand, it was caused because there was no way to re-map pixels. It didn't apply to the 1DX and doesn't to the 1dxII either. I have no idea why it was exclusive to the 1DC other than it was a hot - rodded camera and had some design changes.

[Matthew19]

I was thinking the other night, the 1DXII is unique right now. Nothing can do what it can at the moment : 1.3x sensor with Canon color, 4k with no overheating and autofocus (and that excludes the 4k 60fps and 120fps 1080p)
C300 II - crop sensor, large size
c100 II - 1080p
5div - 1.7x crop
1DC - no autofocus, no slow mo
A7sII - FF but sony colors, 4k overheating
a6300 - sony colors, 4k overheating
nx1 - crop, funny colors
gh4 - crop, autofocus 

Now there are lots of things to like about every one of those cameras. They are all fantastic really, but the 1DXII has an edge in several areas along with some downsides, but aside from the massive file sizes I'm happy with this thing. 
 

[bigfoot]

2 hours ago, Matthew19 said:

This issue was a real problem for some 1DC owners. From what I understand, it was caused because there was no way to re-map pixels. It didn't apply to the 1DX and doesn't to the 1dxII either. I have no idea why it was exclusive to the 1DC other than it was a hot - rodded camera and had some design changes.

I'm not sure if that tricks works but in most canon dslr the easy way to re-map hot pixel is to take a 30sec. or longer exposure with the body caps on 

[sam]

Ive had the hot pixel issue on the 1dc and unfortunately, none of the regular tricks work. The only way to fix it is to send it to Canon.  I havent had any further hot pixels since it was serviced, but, after comparing image quality to my F35, I only use it when the F35 wont fit!   Test the 1dxii by recording for around 20 minutes in a warmish room with the lens cap on and then with a minute to go, record through multiple iso settings. Upscale footage slightly and check for discolored pixels.