Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[jonpais]

It's not for nothing that by April, I'll have already purchased something like six Panasonic cameras. And just months after writing in my personal blog about how Panasonic dropped the GM line, they go ahead and release the GX800 or GF9 or whatever - a camera the size of the GM1, but with a flippy screen and 4k, which I would also consider getting. 

[hmcindie]

9 minutes ago, jonpais said:

nothing but bitching and moaning from everyone about jello, waiting for future firmware updates and so on; I just don't get it. This is quite simply the most complete package, with the greatest number of upgrades I've ever seen to an already good system - yet even now, some say they are going to wait for Sony to deliver the holy grail? 

Which is strange because isn't it Sony why people are waiting for firmwares and complaining? Sony always makes those groundbreaking cameras that tend to have issues. Panasonic atleast makes them rocksolid.

[jonpais]

The newer, larger EVF with double the resolution is amazing; the larger rear LCD with greater resolution is also incredible; a vector scope, waveform monitor, H265, high frame rates, 4K 60p - they've really outdone themselves; not to mention the two dozen other features Panasonic saw fit to put into this camera; perhaps more than we even deserve; but is there anyone here, who has seen the little footage already available from the GH5, or who has shot with the GH4, that thinks the GH5 image quality absolutely blows away Panasonic's former flagship model? In other words, if it didn't have all the razzle-dazzle features, who here would be upgrading based on image quality alone? Sorry if it will anger some individuals, but I think it's a valid question.

[liork]

So you rush to judge based on 2-3 samples?

[jonpais]

Just now, liork said:

So you rush to judge based on 2-3 samples?

Liork, I'm not rushing into anything. I'm not passing judgement on anything.

[liork]

Its too early to answer your question.

[jonpais]

Just now, liork said:

Its too early to answer your question.

Fair enough. 

[Bob Goldberg]

9 minutes ago, jonpais said:

The newer, larger EVF with double the resolution is amazing; the larger rear LCD with greater resolution is also incredible; a vector scope, waveform monitor, H265, high frame rates, 4K 60p - they've really outdone themselves; not to mention the two dozen other features Panasonic saw fit to put into this camera; perhaps more than we even deserve; but is there anyone here, who has seen the little footage already available from the GH5, or who has shot with the GH4, that thinks the GH5 image quality absolutely blows away Panasonic's former flagship model?

In other words, if it didn't have all the razzle-dazzle features, who here would be upgrading based on image quality alone? Sorry if it will anger some individuals, but I think it's a valid question.

I don't think the video released yet is an indication of all of the possible IQ advantages this camera will give.

If you need 4k/60p for fast action, you can't really do that with the GH4 or any other camera. Also, the IBIS may be a difference maker to some, and some would say this will make a difference in video quality.

The oversampled 4K (full sensor) will likely yield the sharpest video yet out of MFT. Not to mention the grading advantages of 4:2:2 video. It's tough to argue that wouldn't make a difference in IQ.

Also, as previously mentioned, you can do 5K video (using the 6K photo mode) with 1:1 pixels, which will likely yield sharper video than the GH4 can produce, with minimal moire or other artifacts. And it's also full sensor. This is entirely independent of the 6K anamorphic mode that's coming in the future. So, there are definitely two ways to shoot beyond 4k, and either of those modes would give you an additional capability to add further stabilization in post, and still output 4k video.

 

[Taranis]

1 hour ago, hmcindie said:

The 5d 3 in RAW is a BEAST in low light too. I need more capitalization than my keyboard can give me, that's how much of a BEAST it is  

If that thing does better (not the noise reductioned blurrs the sony fullframes give out) then I will eat my shorts and pants and hat.

You can always go larger: BEAST

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, leeys said:

I love my Micro 4/3s cameras, and in general anyone belly aching about "needing" full-frame to take better photos or videos really needs to look at themselves...

However from a pure technical perspective I can't see that happening, even if you include things like a focal reducer. Ultimately the sensor in the 5D is 4x the size and it's not that terribly outdated.

As for the GH5 itself, I'm in trouble. It looks like I need to find US$2000 by this summer!

The 5D mk3 is fairly outdated, remember the old Nikon D5200 which was APS-C and nearly caught up to the 5D mk3? As Andrew Reid showed. 

Well MFT is not that far behind APS-C performance (and basically more or less no difference at all once you factor in a focal reducer). Thus it wouldn't surprise me to see the GH5 approach the level of many current APS-C cameras. 

[jonpais]

1 minute ago, Taranis said:

You can always go larger: BEAST

But how many here purchase a micro four thirds camera for crazy low light performance and silly dynamic range? Those are the province of APS-C and full frame...

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Aragonnarun said:

It's really impressive but for me the most important features won't be added until summer, so I'll wait until summer. Maybe by then, Sony will release another monster to fight with the GH5 and we will have another better option, or the GH5 price will drop. 

Exactly!  The way I see it is that the GH5 won't be shipping until another 3 months (and even then, it might be so massively popular we'll see a backlog of orders??). GH5 won't get all the major firmware updates it needs until late 2017

 

Terra 5K might still be a few months away before it can easily be purchased??? Or more.

 

Anything announced at NAB might not ship until late 2017 (or maybe even later....!)

 

So yeah, I think we've got plenty of time to chill and take stock of our options 　

 

Personally I'm pretty happy with my Sony PMW-F3 / BMPCC / Panasonic G6 / Nikon D5200 / Samsung NX300 collection of cameras. I can happily wait until late 2017 to see what comes out of the woodwork, and for the current range of options to settle down. (besides, I'm focusing more into investing in my audio kit at the moment anyway)

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

The other day, I posted about having reasonable expectations (to the effect that we shouldn't expect more than 12 stops dynamic range, not to expect AFC to rival that of Canon, that Panasonic's color science would not change significantly...), which upset a few forum members; then, I watch the truly excellent digidirect presentation and am completely blown away, not only the features, but by the truly good sample videos (slo mo, rack focusing, etc.); then, nothing but bitching and moaning from everyone about jello, waiting for future firmware updates and so on; I just don't get it. This is quite simply the most complete package, with the greatest number of upgrades I've ever seen to an already good system - yet even now, some say they are going to wait for Sony to deliver the holy grail? Am I missing something here? The GH5 is the cat's meow!

Agreed, the GH5 has so many groundbreaking new features in it that it might just with time end up jostling with the famous GH4 (and GH1! Which started all this) as having had the bigger impact historically. 

1 hour ago, liork said:

Jonpais, its nothing to do with cameras, just psychology… some people just waste their lives unsatisfied.  

Sadly true for many people :-( :-( 

1 hour ago, hmcindie said:

The 5d 3 in RAW is a BEAST in low light too. I need more capitalization than my keyboard can give me, that's how much of a BEAST it is  

If that thing does better (not the noise reductioned blurrs the sony fullframes give out) then I will eat my shorts and pants and hat.

I'm referring to a stock Canon 5D mk3, which is what you'll often find the average uninformed internet commentator (of which there are many many many *many* of them!) comparing the GH4 (and now GH5) against, and trying to claim/complaining that Panasonic is somehow coming up short against the well known 5D mk3.

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

It's not for nothing that by April, I'll have already purchased something like six Panasonic cameras. And just months after writing in my personal blog about how Panasonic dropped the GM line, they go ahead and release the GX800 or GF9 or whatever - a camera the size of the GM1, but with a flippy screen and 4k, which I would also consider getting. 

Very sadly Panasonic had to limit the 4K in the GX850 to only 5 minutes!?!?!?! :-( :-( 

I was hoping to look forward to a little mini powerhouse for 4K like the Panasonic GM1 was for FHD. 

[jonpais]

4 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Agreed, the GH5 has so many groundbreaking new features in it that it might just with time end up jostling with the famous GH4 (and GH1! Which started all this) as having had the bigger impact historically. 

The number of upgrades from the GH4 is simply astounding. Like I said before, no need to compare to Sony, Canon, Fuji, Olympus. I know I will be getting mine as soon as it is available.

[IronFilm]

40 minutes ago, jonpais said:

The newer, larger EVF with double the resolution is amazing; the larger rear LCD with greater resolution is also incredible; a vector scope, waveform monitor, H265, high frame rates, 4K 60p - they've really outdone themselves; not to mention the two dozen other features Panasonic saw fit to put into this camera; perhaps more than we even deserve; but is there anyone here, who has seen the little footage already available from the GH5, or who has shot with the GH4, that thinks the GH5 image quality absolutely blows away Panasonic's former flagship model? In other words, if it didn't have all the razzle-dazzle features, who here would be upgrading based on image quality alone? Sorry if it will anger some individuals, but I think it's a valid question.

I think all the top of the line mirrorless/video cameras (of which the GH4 was surely one of those!) can now produce very fine images, as Tom Antos made that point recently in his 4K camera test for end of 2016:
 

 

Thus while moving image quality forward is indeed important, what matters even more is improving the existing functionality of the current camera and not having any stupid problems with them (hello Sony a6300... or hello Canon 5D mk4!!!). Which adding: 4K slow motion, 4K 30p 10bit 422, waveforms, vectorscopes, better EVF, full size HDMI, better XLR accessory, and much much more.... is what the GH5 does *right*!! :-) 

[jonpais]

If only the GH5 could levitate...  

[IronFilm]

10 minutes ago, jonpais said:

The number of upgrades from the GH4 is simply astounding. Like I said before, no need to compare to Sony, Canon, Fuji, Olympus. I know I will be getting mine as soon as it is available.

Agreed, except in very niche cases/tastes, then Panasonic is way way *waaaaaay* ahead of the Sony/Canon/FujiFilm/Olympus/Nikon mirrorless/DSLR options!

However, I might go most of (or even all of) 2017 without buying a Panasonic GH5. Because:

a) I'm happy enough with my Sony PMW-F3 / BMPCC / Panasonic G6 / Nikon D5200 / Samsung NX300 collection of cameras. They're "good enough" for me for now. 

b) I'm focus on audio at the moment for the short/medium term, so I'll like scrimp up every penny and put thousands and thousands of dollars into expanding my audio gear (and maybe my lighting kit a little bit) during 2017.

If I buy any camera during 2017 (as while I'll try hard to resist... it might/probably will happen! oops), it will likely be under one of these circumstances:

a) maybe maybe maybe a self contained 360VR camera, maybe the Nikon KeyMission 360 if it gets a slash in price as I like how it is waterproof!

b) if I am doing well and then "somehow" feel that my audio kit has grown to the point it is "complete" (ha! Could that really ever happen??), then I could switch focus back to the camera department and splash out on Panasonic GH5! 

c) if I split up with my long term GF who I live with, so I lose access to her D90 :-/ :-( As my D5200 can't do AF for photography for many of my older lenses! Thus I might pick up a Nikon D7000 for cheap secondhand to replace the "missing" D90.

d) if I spot a Micro Four Thirds camera (specifically: G7/G80/BMMCC) going for a *very* sharp price! As maybe I might want to join the 4K world a little earlier than 2018 after all, and pick up one of these fine 4K cameras on the very cheap such as during the 2017 Black Friday Sales. (or the BMMCC which is not a 4K camera, but I've got my fingers crossed it might go on half price sale like the BMPCC did!! As it would make such a sweet sweet companion to my BMPCC)

e) if I spot a non-MFT camera (specifically one of these 4K cameras: a6500/NX1/D500) at a very very *very* sharp price! (as my preference would lean towards MFT, as I've got a bit more MFT gear, plus all the MFT cameras are much better value for money! Thus non-MFT cameras need to get a bigger price drop to make themselves as attractive as a MFT camera on sale)

f) if for some reason I find myself rolling in money.... I'll get a Kinefinity Terra 5K, or Sony FS7, or even a Panasonic Varicam LT! haha

[jonpais]

7 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

b) I'm focus on audio at the moment for the short/medium term, so I'll like scrimp up every penny and put thousands and thousands of dollars into expanding my audio gear (and maybe my lighting kit a little bit) during 2017.

off-topic I know, but I'd like to get a lav mic. any suggestions?

[IronFilm]

35 minutes ago, jonpais said:

off-topic I know, but I'd like to get a lav mic. any suggestions?

Budget? Purpose?

Some fairly stock answers I could give straight off the bat, to give you a starting point for research (as I'm about to go to sleep, could be a while until I reply again!): 

Ultra low budget: Aspen lavs
Low budget: Oscar Sound Tech
Low Mid budget: Tram TR50 & Countryman B6 (but given the fragility of the B6.... it more fits into the mid budget or even an "upper mid budget" bracket! As the B6 will have a shorter lifespan! The B6 is more of a specialist microphone, to be "hidden away in plain sight")
Mid Budget: Sanken COS-11D
High Budget: DPA 4060

[Don Kotlos]

Anyone interested for the new lenses? I cannot decide between the 12-35 2.8 ii and the 12-60 2.8-4. 

The advantages for 12-35 would be constant aperture (for <f/4 so not a big deal) and compact size, whereas the 12-60 gives you a very useful range. 

It would be great if we had information on the AF speed between the two during video and how nice the fly-by-wire MF works.  

Also there should be a kit with the 12-60 for $2600 ($400 discount) but I cannot find it anywhere. 

[Jimmy]

I've bit the bullet and pre-ordered.... I've been saying for a while that I will never again by an 8bit/4:2:0 camera... glad to finally put my money where my mouth is!