Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[jonpais]

2 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

Jon, it was my understanding that regardless of how you set AF-C/AF-S, when shooting video, it defaults to AF-C. However using the AF/AE hold button (assuming you set it to AF), the AF will set itself on the subject once, and remain there. Of course I too could be confused.  

If you go into the movie menu, you can choose between AFS/AFF. In AFF, the camera will decide which mode (continuous or single), if you select AFS, it will only be single point AF. But I actually use back button focusing - with the camera set to manual, I use the AF/AE lock to autofocus.

[Ken Ross]

5 minutes ago, jonpais said:

If you go into the movie menu, you can choose between AFS/AFF. In AFF, the camera will decide which mode (continuous or single), if you select AFS, it will only be single point AF. But I actually use back button focusing - with the camera set to manual, I use the AF/AE lock to autofocus.

Ah, you are right! I totally forgot that, but I guess it's because I've always used the AF/AE lock button for that one shot focusing and left the menu set at AFS.

[webrunner5]

18 hours ago, ntblowz said:

I used clearzoom few times and most of the time it sucks balls, result is too soft/pixelated when mix the footage with another one with proper zoom on another angle in multiple cam setup during event/theater setup, ETC mode while gives you really good result without degrading sharpness except the increase in noise at lower light environment, though both wont offer you the same bokeh as proper zoom.

Wow that has Not been my experience on 3 different A7.. cameras, and even on my VG 20, and VG 30. I think Sony has done a great job developing it. I know that a reasonable amount of people use it even on the FS5. We are talking FF sensors with the A7's they have a lot of pixels to deal with compared to say a m4/3. Heck 100% view in Photoshop, with my A7r, looks damn near as clean as the normal 17% you view.

Heck if you can use it taking Photos, Video well hell that is hardly any strain on it with 1080p.You only need 2mp. Even 4k is only 8.3. Yeah maybe on the A7s 4k might be a bit of a stretch, but 24, 36, 42mp versions, piece of cake.

[Ken Ross]

I've liked clear zoom too on my Sony cameras, but the 1.4 extender function on the GH5 is 100% lossless. It's really like having an optically perfect tele-extender.

[webrunner5]

19 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

I've liked clear zoom too on my Sony cameras, but the 1.4 extender function on the GH5 is 100% lossless. It's really like having an optically perfect tele-extender.

I will give you that for sure. Panasonic did well with that feature. But the Sony can go to 2x which is a pretty big advantage. But the bigger the worse it can be at times, just like 2x physical ones behind lenses are.

[kinvermark]

7 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Paul Leeming posted this example of extreme VLog ghosting at high ISO on the GH5 facebook page:

Another user mentioned that Panasonic has said that if there is a demand to turn off NR completely, they will do it. Perhaps it's time to voice your concerns to Panasonic if ghosting like this is a problem for you.

Personally, I would prefer to control the NR myself, and I'm sure many others would too.

 

This post is incomplete and so a little misleading  ... check here for what Paul Leeming actually said:      http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?353493-GH5-Owner-User-Reports/page4

Short version - he thinks Vlog on Gh5 is great.  Extra stops.  Ghosting issue found in ONE CASE with extreme use conditions. 

 

[webrunner5]

Wow that guy does some magic stuff with his LuTs. And he is claiming 2 stops in Vlog over Cine D, wow that is pretty crazy if true!!  Kind of hard to believe though? But he is seeing the ghosting in low light issue also. So I guess it is a problem Panasonic is going to Have to sort out, and quick.

[zmarty]

The 4K 10 bit files that GH5 records internally cannot be read by some software such as Resolve. Also, the files are in an inter-frame codec so editing crawls to a halt in some software.

The solution is to transcode from H.264 10 bit to an intraframe codec like Prores. Here is an ffmpeg command line that does that:

ffmpeg -i "input.mp4" -c:v prores_ks -profile:v 2 -qscale:v 11 -vendor ap10 -pix_fmt yuv422p10le "output.mov"

But you have to be very careful to use an ffmpeg version that was compiled for 10 bit support.

[noone]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I will give you that for sure. Panasonic did well with that feature. But the Sony can go to 2x which is a pretty big advantage. But the bigger the worse it can be at times, just like 2x physical ones behind lenses are.

At 1.4x I think that clearzoom is at least as close to lossless as the Pansonic at 1.4x.

It is still very close to lossless at 2x and of course you can go to 1.1x or 1.2x or 1.3x or whatever you want to 2x as well.

You can change the setting from clear image zoom to digital zoom to 4x in which case above 2x you start seeing it though still could have uses in a pinch.

I have it set to clearzoom and the down button set to use to bring it up and then I can use the left and right buttons and use it on the fly. (I sometimes use other things with the down button but mostly it is set to clear zoom).

Those four images I posted above are 2 from the A7s and 2 from the GX7.         Regards the A7s shots, I actually prefer the clearzoom at 25mm with 2x applied over the 50mm image.      those were taken with the cheap little Canon 18-55 IS ii kit lens and I think it might be because being a APSC lens used FF, while it covers the sensor from around 24mm up, there is still vignetting (just not a black edge as there is below about 24mm).     Using the clearzoom has removed the vignetting.     It may also be that the lens is optically better at 25mm than at 50mm.

With the Panasonic shots, the optical image is clearly better than the ETC shot though I would use the ETC one if I had to.       Again, the (same) lens is for a different format, in this case for a larger 1.6x APSC sensor so I don't have the vignetting issue and it may well be now that the lens is also better at 36mm of the optical zoom than it is at 18mm for the ETC shot so this time other factors favour the optical VS other factors favouring the clearzoom for the Sony.

Again, though this was never meant to be a Sony VS Panasonic thing but to suggest that if 1.4x is great with ETC, why on Mars wouldn't you want it variable?

[docmoore]

4K 10bit 150 Mb MOV files read natively in Resolve 12.5 Studio ... a bit slower than CDNG to process when encoding to H.264 or ProRes HQ but 

had no problem with 40 minutes of files ....

I posted this 4K to HD example in another thread on GH5 test footage ...

 

 

Bob

[Fritz Pierre]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Wow that guy does some magic stuff with his LuTs. And he is claiming 2 stops in Vlog over Cine D, wow that is pretty crazy if true!!  Kind of hard to believe though? But he is seeing the ghosting in low light issue also. So I guess it is a problem Panasonic is going to Have to sort out, and quick.

I use his LUTS on the GH4...they're incredible and also work on your G7??...did I remember correctly?...but his luts are just to get you to a color space where you then start grading...he also provides a manual for settings in camera...exposure tips etc....this year Leeming, Andrew and Luke will get my money...

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

I use his LUTS on the GH4...they're incredible and also work on your G7??...did I remember correctly?...but his luts are just to get you to a color space where you then start grading...he also provides a manual for settings in camera...exposure tips etc....this year Leeming, Andrew and Luke will get my money...

Yeah I use his stuff all the time. Leeming on my Gh2, Gh3, and now my G7. I have found he is just about the best guy consistently to use. He has that stuff figured out! It is not worth the effort to bother unless you are shooting something really difficult not to have his LuTs. And he seems like a really nice person on the Forum.

And I follow Barry Green with his book and comments on DVXuser for my AF100A. Guy is scary good.

This forum Andrew has here, and DVXuser to me, are 2 of the best learning Forums on the web for, eh "normal" people. By that I mean people that don't own top end gear, but aspire top end stuff maybe in the long run. You can't start at the top unless you are rich. and You, in this day and age, really don't even Need top end gear. But oh boy, fun to dream about it LoL.

I am not in the market at all for the GH5, but wow this thing seems ALL over the place on good and bad. I can see a few firmware updates Panasonic had not planned on. But I have faith in them to get it right. They have been to a few Rodeo's as they say!

[ntblowz]

4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Wow that has Not been my experience on 3 different A7.. cameras, and even on my VG 20, and VG 30. I think Sony has done a great job developing it. I know that a reasonable amount of people use it even on the FS5. We are talking FF sensors with the A7's they have a lot of pixels to deal with compared to say a m4/3. Heck 100% view in Photoshop, with my A7r, looks damn near as clean as the normal 17% you view.

Heck if you can use it taking Photos, Video well hell that is hardly any strain on it with 1080p.You only need 2mp. Even 4k is only 8.3. Yeah maybe on the A7s 4k might be a bit of a stretch, but 24, 36, 42mp versions, piece of cake.

FS5 have both center scan and clearzoom mode.  ETC on Panasonic works the same as center scan mode, just the center crop of the sensor, unlike clearzoom which have software interpolation when you zoom in, so for me center scan/ETC > clearzoom all the time, especially with moving target.

I got FS5 myself and I always use center scan for extra zoom reach. On a7s I use APS-C mode instead.

here is the video done by other FS5 user on this subject

 

 

[wonderboy]

Hi everyone, today i got luck and catched a helicopter take off. Tried to film it in Slowmotion, what do you think? It was really sunny outside so i turned the F-Stops way up to 16 but it ended up a bit to dark... 

https://youtu.be/fqNC9jKcgLU 

FHD 8 Bit VariableFameRate 180
ISO 200, F16, 180d Shutter, ManualFocus, HandHeld
PictureProfile is Like709 with Knee adjustment, Graded in AE

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, ntblowz said:

FS5 have both center scan and clearzoom mode.  ETC on Panasonic works the same as center scan mode, just the center crop of the sensor, unlike clearzoom which have software interpolation when you zoom in, so for me center scan/ETC > clearzoom all the time, especially with moving target.

I got FS5 myself and I always use center scan for extra zoom reach. On a7s I use APS-C mode instead.

here is the video done by other FS5 user on this subject

 

 

 Glad to see someones opinion as a end user. GAS on that part. I found it pretty hard to tell much difference myself on the video. But i am sure you are seeing it differently than are.

How well does center scan work at wide angles?? I would think it would not work as well as clearzoom mode? I was sort of waiting for the 70mm part to happen to be honest also.

 Yeah APS-C mode appears to  works better on the A7rII also. Not surprisingly across all of them.

[hyalinejim]

2 hours ago, wonderboy said:

Hi everyone, today i got luck and catched a helicopter take off. Tried to film it in Slowmotion, what do you think? It was really sunny outside so i turned the F-Stops way up to 16 but it ended up a bit to dark... 

https://youtu.be/fqNC9jKcgLU 

FHD 8 Bit VariableFameRate 180
ISO 200, F16, 180d Shutter, ManualFocus, HandHeld
PictureProfile is Like709 with Knee adjustment, Graded in AE

My man! First video I've seen where somebody has actually adjusted the knee in the Like709 profile. Some people are very excited about this @Fritz Pierre as the colours seem to look very nice.

What can you tell us about the knee adjustments - does it give better dynamic range?

Also, that vid shows the incredible rolling shutter performance @ 180fps. On another camera the blades would be warped.

[noone]

3 hours ago, ntblowz said:

FS5 have both center scan and clearzoom mode.  ETC on Panasonic works the same as center scan mode, just the center crop of the sensor, unlike clearzoom which have software interpolation when you zoom in, so for me center scan/ETC > clearzoom all the time, especially with moving target.

I got FS5 myself and I always use center scan for extra zoom reach. On a7s I use APS-C mode instead.

here is the video done by other FS5 user on this subject

 

 

I don't see any real difference in your test but if that is what you get I am fine with that.

Having said that, BOTH ways are digital enlargement and can not be completely lossless though both ways are very close to it and especially at smaller magnifications.  

   I do prefer the clearzoom way rather than crop and enlarge (if that is what ETC is doing).

 

Sony is very coy about clearzoom though and never says much though it has improved in more recent cameras (it didn't work for video at all in earlier cameras).

 

 

Why I think there seems to be some doubt about clearzoom against ETC is that ETC has mostly been 2x with previous cameras and 2x (no matter if clearzoom or ETC) is more lossy than 1.4 so having a 1.4x "teleconverter" is a great option but then I find clearzoom at 1.4x to be equally a great option.   

I might use APSC mode much more often if Sony didn't have clearzoom as being variable.      With APSC though you are not getting the same size (5mp with the A7s while still getting 12mp with clearzoom and FF mode).      You can always use clearzoom in APSC mode too if you want.

I also think the lens used is MUCH more important too as in I would prefer a very good lens with clearzoom at 2x (and even more so at smaller magnifications) than a poorer optical lens.

 In any event, I have satisfied myself that.

A) ETC with the GX7 is not as good as clearzoom with the A7s though both are pretty good (and both cameras are around the same age).

B) The lens can matter more than anything. (Start with a good lens and it works with little loss for either ETC or Clearzoom).

C) I would MUCH prefer it was variable (please Panasonic make it so).

D) I like using a fast prime as a zoom in some instances (which isn't really possible with optical or ETC currently). 

E) Sometimes if used with a zoom lens, variable clearzoom may well be better than zooming optically because the lens may be better optically at some focal lengths (and sometimes the other way around) and also due to vignetting if adapting lenses for different sensors.

F) Choice is STILL good.

If I have the time later, I might see about putting a really good lens with clearzoom up against a poor one of the same focal length and ask people to pick which is which.

 

[webrunner5]

3 hours ago, wonderboy said:

Hi everyone, today i got luck and catched a helicopter take off. Tried to film it in Slowmotion, what do you think? It was really sunny outside so i turned the F-Stops way up to 16 but it ended up a bit to dark... 

https://youtu.be/fqNC9jKcgLU 

FHD 8 Bit VariableFameRate 180
ISO 200, F16, 180d Shutter, ManualFocus, HandHeld
PictureProfile is Like709 with Knee adjustment, Graded in AE

This newbie has been around the block before! 

[jonpais]

26 minutes ago, noone said:

I don't see any real difference in your test but if that is what you get I am fine with that.

Having said that, BOTH ways are digital enlargement and can not be completely lossless though both ways are very close to it and especially at smaller magnifications.  

   I do prefer the clearzoom way rather than crop and enlarge (if that is what ETC is doing).

 

Sony is very coy about clearzoom though and never says much though it has improved in more recent cameras (it didn't work for video at all in earlier cameras).

 

 

Why I think there seems to be some doubt about clearzoom against ETC is that ETC has mostly been 2x with previous cameras and 2x (no matter if clearzoom or ETC is more lossy than 1.4 so having a 1.4x "teleconverter" is a great option but then I find clearzoom at 1.4x to be equally a great option.   

I might use APSC mode much more often if Sony didn't have clearzoom as being variable.      With APSC though you are not getting the same size (5mp with the A7s while still getting 12mp with clearzoom and FF mode).      You can always use clearzoom in APSC mode too if you want.

I also think the lens used is MUCH more important too as in I would prefer a very good lens with clearzoom at 2x (and even more so at smaller magnifications) than a poorer optical lens.

 In any event, I have satisfied myself that.

A) ETC with the GX7 is not as good as clearzoom with the A7s though both are pretty good (and both cameras are around the same age).

B) The lens can matter more than anything. (Start with a good lens and it works with little loss for either ETC or Clearzoom).

C) I would MUCH prefer it was variable (please Panasonic make it so).

D) I like using a fast prime as a zoom in some instances (which isn't really possible with optical or ETC currently). 

E) Sometimes if used with a zoom lens, variable clearzoom may well be better than zooming optically because the lens may be better optically at some focal lengths (and sometimes the other way around) and also due to vignetting if adapting lenses for different sensors.

F) Choice is STILL good.

If I have the time later, I might see about putting a really good lens with clearzoom up against a poor one of the same focal length and ask people to pick which is which.

 

So many options now with 4 K - zooms, simulated slider shots, and in post, the Ken Burns effect and even dolly zooms. 

[jonpais]

10 hours ago, Stanley said:

Ask driftwood he'll explain. 

Nick has no idea what you're talking about either.