Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[jonpais]

17 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

Jon, no, but I should have explained how I shot this to explain what you're seeing. As I moved to different spots in the mall, I was sitting in areas where there were arrays of 6 or so seats and a couch. My seat would generally be 12'-15' (I'm guessing) from my 'subject'.

These were obviously candid shots (technically you're not supposed to shoot in the mall) and I wanted to be as discreet as possible. So I had the camera on my thigh with my legs crossed and the VF swung out so that I could look down, not appearing to be shooting. I was probably 3/4 zoomed in with the 14-140 lens, while I'd make slight adjustments with my leg and camera for relatively consistent framing...a really lousy monopod. That resulted in those slight movements that would not have occurred with the camera to my eye, as I almost always shoot hand-held. 

So that's the long winded answer to the jitter question. I wasn't even careful in adjusting exposure since it was hard to see the zebras in the LCD (I wear reading glasses). I'll look out for it though in my normal shooting style. 

My impression of the GH5 IBIS is that it's a bit more effective than in the G85. I think that's more a function of the size and weight (bigger cams are generally easier to hold steady) than an actual improvement in the IBIS.

I'm in the middle of watching an excellent program on Al Jazeera about ultra rich Asian girls, these three young women they follow around have got their own tele-reality show in Vancouver, and the two-man film crew just handholds Canon C300s or something, no rig, nothing. Must be nice! I shake so badly sometimes that not even IBIS can save me.

[Ken Ross]

4 hours ago, Inazuma said:

Max's gh5 or lens may have been buggy. I have seen much better AF by other youtubers

That's what I don't get. His are the absolute worst results I've seen. I wonder if he doesn't overthink the AF. I have it on central area focusing, the default area size (the AF has been so good I'm terrified to touch anything!) and the camera has shown minimal hunting and stays locked on the target. Now granted I don't have people running toward or away from the camera since that's not what I typically shoot. 

However in my tests, I have shot subjects/objects close to the lens and then immediately changed my focus point to something 10-20' away. I've walked around the house while shooting at varying distances. Results have been quick and sure-footed. I'll upload a test I did last night for a friend.

i doubt the AF of my 14-140 is so exceptional so as to explain why I've had no issues. BTW, I didn't even watch his 2nd AF video, but I will later today.

[Ken Ross]

Just watched Max's video and to say I'm perplexed is as gross an understatement as I can imagine. I'm going to try that outdoor test he did with focusing on the car and then something in the distance. If you read the comments below the video, you'll see there are other GH5 owners, like myself, who also say theirs are very fast and very reliable and are also confused by his results. I'm almost inclined to go along with a couple of posters who think he has a problem with his body...camera body that is.

In the interim, here's a 4K video I had shot on day one with the GH5 during a stormy day in N.Y. I turned off all the lights in the house and it was actually fairly dark, despite what a few angles show. This was using the relatively slow 14-140 lens (F3.5), so no assist from the lens. As I turn from a closeup of the flowers, to the living room, you'll get a better idea as to what the lighting actually looked like. At the time of this posting, the video was still only in HD on YouTube, so it needs more time to process to 4K.

 

[Fritz Pierre]

47 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

Just watched Max's video and to say I'm perplexed is as gross an understatement as I can imagine. I'm going to try that outdoor test he did with focusing on the car and then something in the distance. If you read the comments below the video, you'll see there are other GH5 owners, like myself, who also say theirs are very fast and very reliable and are also confused by his results. I'm almost inclined to go along with a couple of posters who think he has a problem with his body...camera body that is.

In the interim, here's a 4K video I had shot on day one with the GH5 during a stormy day in N.Y. I turned off all the lights in the house and it was actually fairly dark, despite what a few angles show. This was using the relatively slow 14-140 lens (F3.5), so no assist from the lens. As I turn from a closeup of the flowers, to the living room, you'll get a better idea as to what the lighting actually looked like. At the time of this posting, the video was still only in HD on YouTube, so it needs more time to process to 4K.

 

Hi Ken...that looks really good!...and Max's test actually looks much worse than AF on the GH4...I would say it's probably his camera body...I won't get mine for about 2 months as it has to be brought to me from the US...I specifically bought  from a small dealer though, and they agreed they would unbox the camera and test the basics like LCD screen, IBS,AF etc. to make sure the camera functions properly before shipping...the option of shipping it back does not exist for me...I did have to authorize opening the box in writing though...with the very large volume of GH5's shipping, and it being a technically and feature wise extremely advanced camera, one can certainly expect some glitches in some bodies...lastly...I'm glad Panasonic ignores the fanboy hate threads and whining and nitpicking that always seem to accompany GH cameras and seem to continue to strive for excellence in the GH cameras they release every few years...

[Cas1]

Max appears to only use "Sensitivity", but has he used the AF speed slider too? As I've understood AF speed slider determines how fast the focus pull is. The Sensitivity is about how much time the subject is out of focus before the refocus starts. If Max has not seen / tested the AF speed setting in combination with the sensitivity, then I'm starting to think his 10h + test was not that conclusive.

It's interesting to learn that 60p works better then 24p.

Although even is the AF is good and responsive, fact remains that the focus confirmation wiggle is HIGHY distracting. I wish Panasonic's DFD could know how far to focus from the blur and simply and smoothly focus to that estimated distance, without the dreadful distracting focus wiggle. In my mind DFD could measure the change in blur while refocussing, to affirm or correct the auto focus pull. Make the focus pull take 10 frames, at 5 frames measure a second time (while auto pulling focus) and land on the estimated focus distance. Currently the AF seems to simply move one direction, notice a changing blur, change focus direction and start pulling until the AF pull overshoots a certain amount of blur, then change the focus pull again to focus back a (standard?) bit. It's programming behaves very simplistic in my eyes. I wonder how the more expensive, dedicated video cameras do.

[Ken Ross]

2 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

Hi Ken...that looks really good!...and Max's test actually looks much worse than AF on the GH4...I would say it's probably his camera body...I won't get mine for about 2 months as it has to be brought to me from the US...I specifically bought  from a small dealer though, and they agreed they would unbox the camera and test the basics like LCD screen, IBS,AF etc. to make sure the camera functions properly before shipping...the option of shipping it back does not exist for me...I did have to authorize opening the box in writing though...with the very large volume of GH5's shipping, and it being a technically and feature wise extremely advanced camera, one can certainly expect some glitches in some bodies...lastly...I'm glad Panasonic ignores the fanboy hate threads and whining and nitpicking that always seem to accompany GH cameras and seem to continue to strive for excellence in the GH cameras they release every few years...

Thanks Fritz. This is the first day we've had some sun in a while and after watching Max's video, I decided I'd go out and shoot some clips that duplicated one of his failed tests. I will put this video together and you'll see how totally different our cameras behave. No comparison whatsoever.

It's such a pity this camera is getting such a bad rap for, what I think, is an obviously defective unit.

[Ken Ross]

So here's the video I promised. I tried to duplicate Max's AF scenario as best I could. None of these clips have been edited and none that I shot were left out. Everything you see is everything I shot. Very different results. What can I say? As I've said before, these results are extremely typical for everything I've shot thus far. I've never shot a single clip that even remotely resembles what Max got.

 

[AaronChicago]

Almost as bad as the Alexa's autofocus.

[SuperSet]

Wonder if it's lens related as I also read Lee Macreaths post about his lackluster autofocus performance, also using the 12-35 lens. 

[Ken Ross]

7 minutes ago, AaronChicago said:

Almost as bad as the Alexa's autofocus.

What is? The video I just posted shows quick & largely accurate AF.

5 minutes ago, SuperSet said:

Wonder if it's lens related as I also read Lee Macreaths post about his lackluster autofocus performance, also using the 12-35 lens. 

I've wondered that too. I've only been using the 14-140 lens and have never gotten his results. However I wouldn't rule out a bad body either as other GH5 owners on his website have suggested.

[ozmorphasis]

8 hours ago, Stab said:

There is slight vignetting going on at 18mm, but since I always add black bars in post they aren't a problem for me.

I understand that IBIS is no gimbal replacement, but I have seen better results in other people's shots which were also shot with non-supported lenses. Also, the fact that it's better at 35mm than at 18mm surprises me.

It's also a bit of misunderstanding that the edges will be easier to tame on a wider lens while moving.   It's the opposite.  It's true that a wider lens will tame microvibrations and shake better than a longer lens when looking at the overall frame and especially the center of the frame, but wide lenses are stretching a lot more information into the sides, so they exaggerate any movement and certainly any anomalies at the edges.  Even with a totally steady setup, try walking with an ultra wide lens or a fisheye.  The edges will look awful.  Now add to that a bit of shake.

Of course, what everyone else is saying about telling the camera the correct focal length is also important for the IBIS.

[webrunner5]

4 hours ago, Ken Ross said:

Just watched Max's video and to say I'm perplexed is as gross an understatement as I can imagine. I'm going to try that outdoor test he did with focusing on the car and then something in the distance. If you read the comments below the video, you'll see there are other GH5 owners, like myself, who also say theirs are very fast and very reliable and are also confused by his results. I'm almost inclined to go along with a couple of posters who think he has a problem with his body...camera body that is.

In the interim, here's a 4K video I had shot on day one with the GH5 during a stormy day in N.Y. I turned off all the lights in the house and it was actually fairly dark, despite what a few angles show. This was using the relatively slow 14-140 lens (F3.5), so no assist from the lens. As I turn from a closeup of the flowers, to the living room, you'll get a better idea as to what the lighting actually looked like. At the time of this posting, the video was still only in HD on YouTube, so it needs more time to process to 4K.

 

I thought I saw one little spec of dust around the Bananas, but I was wrong LoL. The heck with the camera, I want your House! Nice video. Shows it's strengths for sure. Looks like yours works.

[Ken Ross]

Thanks webrunner5. Hey, I'm getting new bananas! 

It's just unfortunate the camera is getting such a bad rap when Max's issues are obviously not universal as other GH5 owners have said what I have. Max should have at least acknowledged there may have been something wrong with his camera.

[webrunner5]

48 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

So here's the video I promised. I tried to duplicate Max's AF scenario as best I could. None of these clips have been edited and none that I shot were left out. Everything you see is everything I shot. Very different results. What can I say? As I've said before, these results are extremely typical for everything I've shot thus far. I've never shot a single clip that even remotely resembles what Max got.

This is a 4K video, but it hasn't yet rendered at this point to a full 4K.

 

Holly crap, that is just awesome. No one could even begin to focus that fast in manual mode. Camera envy on my part. What lens, 12-35mm, 12-60mm?? The 14-140mm, no way? If so what version?

[Ken Ross]

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

Holly crap, that is just awesome. No one could even begin to focus that fast in manual mode. Camera envy on my part. What lens, 12-35mm, 12-60mm??

Thanks webrunner, I agree. It was actually the GH5 and I was trying to duplicate, as close as I could, the terrible failures Max had doing the same shots. I really find it hard to believe the 14-140 lens has that much better AF, if any. 

[zmarty]

8 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

Thanks webrunner, I agree. It was actually the GH5 and I was trying to duplicate, as close as I could, the terrible failures Max had doing the same shots. I really find it hard to believe the 14-140 lens has that much better AF, if any. 

Can you please try to replicate his shots where he was showing a lens to the camera? I think those examples are the worst.

[SuperSet]

11 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

Thanks webrunner, I agree. It was actually the GH5 and I was trying to duplicate, as close as I could, the terrible failures Max had doing the same shots. I really find it hard to believe the 14-140 lens has that much better AF, if any. 

FWIW, the autofocus performed better on my GH4 with the 14-140mm than my 12-35mm.

[Ken Ross]

22 minutes ago, zmarty said:

Can you please try to replicate his shots where he was showing a lens to the camera? I think those examples are the worst.

No problem marty, will do.

Uploading to Youtube now.

17 minutes ago, SuperSet said:

FWIW, the autofocus performed better on my GH4 with the 14-140mm than my 12-35mm.

It's hard to believe that the lens could make all the difference I'm seeing between Max's video and mine.

Zmarty, here ya go. Give it a bit of time to upgrade to 4K. It's now a low rez, but you should still see the focus.

 

[Fritz Pierre]

1 hour ago, Ken Ross said:

So here's the video I promised. I tried to duplicate Max's AF scenario as best I could. None of these clips have been edited and none that I shot were left out. Everything you see is everything I shot. Very different results. What can I say? As I've said before, these results are extremely typical for everything I've shot thus far. I've never shot a single clip that even remotely resembles what Max got.

 

Thanks much for the test Ken!...never use AF but clearly with the GH5 I'll be able to chase my 5 year old around with it!...absolutely respectable result on AF and the examples you used would certainly challenge a system...comes in smoothly and at a respectable pace...even better performance than in your house...though in your house you don't see it finding focus as clearly as in daylight

[Ken Ross]

4 minutes ago, Fritz Pierre said:

Thanks much for the test Ken!...never use AF but clearly with the GH5 I'll be able to chase my 5 year old around with it!...absolutely respectable result on AF and the examples you used would certainly challenge a system...comes in smoothly and at a respectable pace...even better performance than in your house...though in your house you don't see it finding focus as clearly as in daylight

Thanks Fritz. The indoor video I shot was taken during heavy rain with no lights on. It was pretty dark in the house. As is the case with almost any video camera, indoors shots under those conditions won't have quite the resolution of brighter, outdoor shots. What I'm also seeing, for the most part, is that the AF doesn't tend to overshoot.