Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[anonim]

Am I wrong with great aesthetic admiration for such unpretentious using of GH2 + Voigt 17.5 f0.95 ("cinematic") combination... even at just 720p?

(Need to say that I've found that CV 17.5 is the most usable and produce the most beautiful picture in whole m43 range of lenses, IMHO.)

 

[Dimitris Stasinos]

5 hours ago, Orangenz said:

You mention two different things here. The viewfinder refresh rate and the final output. The final output is not dependent on what the evf refresh is doing. The final output smoothness will be dependent on your shutter angle and the speed at which you are moving the camera. Also the GH5 has better readout speed for reduced rolling shutter at 4k than most other options out there as far as I know. In terms of the final files showing jitter, 9 times out of 10 that will be the computer struggling to play huge 4k files and uncompressing the codec. Viewing 1080 files or off youtube will be smooth for those machines.

The viewfinder or evf refresh seems to be a very reasonable on the GH5 considering this is a huge oled display. The monitor refresh goes up to 60fps, I don't know if the evf does. Some people may prefer a low pixel lcd with 120fps or higher refresh. I know I prefer the amazing evf image quality. Just as with tvs I'm sure future evf's will be faster and faster. The refresh speed, while somewhat average is still ridiculously faster than the one on the rx100v, that's for sure. 

 

As i said i didn't have the chance to see the files on my main system. So i am mainly reporting the EVF issue which has nothing to do with image quality but rather it's usability, as jitter/judder/strobe/whatever causes eye fatique. As for the final output (which indeed is a different thing) have you seen the video below? This is a gh5 on a tripod with IBIS turned off, panning "slowly" to the left and a fair amount of judder is introduced. I just wonder if this is considered as "normal" or it's a case of a faulty unit. 

 

[Thpriest]

10 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

No sign of this on my camera.

I would however recommend as always that you try the camera at a store if possible...or rent it.

In fact...the viewfinder is superb....lol by comparison the viewfinders on S35 film cameras were a nightmare...no seeing what you got beforehand...it was a skill to know what the image was going to look like...the processing lab saw it before anyone else!

thats why I always thought the complaints about the BMPCC LCD was funny considering the incredible image out of that little 900 camera.

Do you think the EVF is good enough for manual focusing in run n gun situations? I use focus peaking with my Voigtlander and SLR Magic lenses on the GX85 but on the LCD screen it's sometimes hard to get it right when shooting outside. I'd rather a good EVF than attach a loupe to the LCD screen.

[Orangenz]

1 hour ago, Dimitris Stasinos said:

As i said i didn't have the chance to see the files on my main system. So i am mainly reporting the EVF issue which has nothing to do with image quality but rather it's usability, as jitter/judder/strobe/whatever causes eye fatique. As for the final output (which indeed is a different thing) have you seen the video below? This is a gh5 on a tripod with IBIS turned off, panning "slowly" to the left and a fair amount of judder is introduced. I just wonder if this is considered as "normal" or it's a case of a faulty unit. 

 

I addressed this pan judder in my answer already.

All these shots of his are going onto a 60p timeline... When he interprets the footage to match the timeline what does he discover? No jitter. You can't go from jitter to no jitter if there is a problem recorded into the footage by the camera so there can't be a problem there. Interpreting the footage also slows the pan down. Most cameras in the USA are at 30fps (or so) and 24 is a different thing.

There are some curious aspects to his tests for sure but it's kinda hard to comment when it's all on a 60p timeline. He certainly picked a good codec torture test on the leaves. My pans are at 25fps and are smooth unless I move too fast. http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/camera-panning-speed If you have a clip on a native timeline you wish to share I'll have a look. 

As for the eye fatigue, I'm not a doctor. Sounds pretty weird. I've heard that a certain percentage of people are susceptible to DLP projector refresh rates and see rainbows from the spinning colour wheel. If it's along those lines then you might need a camera with a much higher refresh rate evf. 

1 hour ago, Thpriest said:

Do you think the EVF is good enough for manual focusing in run n gun situations? I use focus peaking with my Voigtlander and SLR Magic lenses on the GX85 but on the LCD screen it's sometimes hard to get it right when shooting outside. I'd rather a good EVF than attach a loupe to the LCD screen.

I'm not sure that running with the camera to your eye is a good idea? But it's a beauty. If you can get to a shop you must try it out. 

[jonpais]

2 hours ago, anonim said:

Am I wrong with great aesthetic admiration for such unpretentious using of GH2 + Voigt 17.5 f0.95 ("cinematic") combination... even at just 720p?

(Need to say that I've found that CV 17.5 is the most usable and produce the most beautiful picture in whole m43 range of lenses, IMHO.)

 

Botany Bay is lovely. Not only the lens, but the photo style, the camera settings (sharpening, contrast, saturation and noise reduction), the subject matter, the location, the lighting, the focus transitions, the choice of aperture, editing and the music all contribute to the overall feel. Makes you think twice before upgrading, doesn't it?

[Thpriest]

55 minutes ago, Orangenz said:

 

I'm not sure that running with the camera to your eye is a good idea? But it's a beauty. If you can get to a shop you must try it out. 

I'm not talking about running with the camera, just being lightweight, moving around a lot to get lot's of different shots quickly. Adding a loupe to the LCD slows things down when you have to take it off to get a low shot with the LCD (swivelling it). If the EVF is good enough for accurate focus at f1.2 on a Voigtlander in the sun then that would be amazing.

[Orangenz]

3 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

I'm not talking about running with the camera, just being lightweight, moving around a lot to get lot's of different shots quickly. Adding a loupe to the LCD slows things down when you have to take it off to get a low shot with the LCD (swivelling it). If the EVF is good enough for accurate focus at f1.2 on a Voigtlander in the sun then that would be amazing.

I try and make everything into a joke. At least once a year it's even funny. Make sure you take an sd card and the Voigt along with you if visiting a shop. You'll need to format the card in camera. 

[jonpais]

@Thpriest How are you shooting with a Nokton at f/1.2 in bright sunshine? Are you using three ND filters?

[Thpriest]

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

@Thpriest How are you shooting with a Nokton at f/1.2 in bright sunshine? Are you using three ND filters?

Variable ND. Works fine. Usually get between f1.2-2.8.

[Fritz Pierre]

5 hours ago, Thpriest said:

Do you think the EVF is good enough for manual focusing in run n gun situations? I use focus peaking with my Voigtlander and SLR Magic lenses on the GX85 but on the LCD screen it's sometimes hard to get it right when shooting outside. I'd rather a good EVF than attach a loupe to the LCD screen.

The EVF is fantastic for focussing manually...actually preferable to me to the LCD screen...for the first time ever, I actually autofocussed on something...on a tripod and then dialed my diopter in on the EVF....it's that precise....as a focussing tool in this price range it's as good as it gets IMO...one of the reasons I mentioned you try the camera in a store though, is if you've owned a GH2 or GH4, this is not it!...it's considerably bigger, the grip deeper, and it's much heavier....and there's no comparison in image quality...I own 2 GH4's and a GH2 still, and this is a far superior camera...but in the same way as many forum members like Canon colors, and don't like Panny colors, I like Panny cameras and would never shoot on a Canon...so my advice is subjective....this is also a very complicated camera....no one will learn it in a week!

[Thpriest]

3 minutes ago, Fritz Pierre said:

The EVF is fantastic for focussing manually...actually preferable to me to the LCD screen...for the first time ever, I actually autofocussed on something...on a tripod and then dialed my diopter in on the EVF....it's that precise....as a focussing tool in this price range it's as good as it gets IMO...one of the reasons I mentioned you try the camera in a store though, is if you've owned a GH2 or GH4, this is not it!...it's considerably bigger, the grip deeper, and it's much heavier....and there's no comparison in image quality...I own 2 GH4's and a GH2 still, and this is a far superior camera...but in the same way as many forum members like Canon colors, and don't like Panny colors, I like Panny cameras and would never shoot on a Canon...so my advice is subjective....this is also a very complicated camera....no one will learn it in a week!

Coming from a C100, a great camera but I want something lighter and IBIS. Mainly for weddings and certain smaller projects.

[anonim]

3 hours ago, jonpais said:

Botany Bay is lovely. Not only the lens, but the photo style, the camera settings (sharpening, contrast, saturation and noise reduction), the subject matter, the location, the lighting, the focus transitions, the choice of aperture, editing and the music all contribute to the overall feel. Makes you think twice before upgrading, doesn't it?

Really, twice as minimum with Gh2 (<180$), only desperately missing focus peaking, even shaky footage could be full of charming... it seems that some qualities of GH2 sensor give something special? I've posted it regarding earlier discussion about lenses in this thread, thinking how mighty strange are these Voigts in hands of masters. So, once more...

 

[Thpriest]

Another thing, are the SANDISK EXTREME PRO SDXC 128Gb V30 95MB/s ok for shooting 4k 10 bit and 4k 50p at present ( not upgraded 400mbs)?

[kidzrevil]

8 hours ago, jonpais said:

Kidzrevil takes my words out of context, then says they confirm his suspicion that [...]. This is not even logical. First of all, I say that the digitally corrected lenses I use produce beautiful images, then this somehow proves the opposite is the case with the fine Panasonic 20mm f/1.7? And to shout 'eureka!', as if this were the first time he definitively learned that m43 lenses are corrected in firmware? This is common knowledge, not something hidden away in the cellar of an inn in Turin.

Im pretty sure you took my words out of context as well. You said something about maybe the camera firmware adding sharpness to the lens with digital correction and I agreed that may be the case.I never said beautiful images can't be produced with a lumix lens nor did I say your point proved that these lenses can't produce amazing images but you immediately took that as a personal attack and responded accordingly. These firmware corrections may have been common knowledge to you but it was unbeknownst to me. Im still searching high and low for what the problem is here but okay man you win ??

[Fritz Pierre]

7 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

Coming from a C100, a great camera but I want something lighter and IBIS. Mainly for weddings and certain smaller projects.

Even all the more reason to try before you buy!...however....the combination of IBIS and the EVF pushed up against your eye will give you solid focus and extremely detailed footage...and the Voightlanders like the SlRMagics kill on this camera...forget all the mumbling about oversharpened and on and on...I repeat....this camera is extremely DETAILED!...the "negative" is very "thick" at 10bit...you are going to use the camera professionally...this camera is ridiculous at $2000!...I would also probably recommend a Tiffen pro mist 1/8 or 1/4 depending on your needs....you need to play with the picture profiles to see whether you can match to the C100 to your satisfaction...not sure I would recommend Vlog for you, but then again, you sound like you already know what you need!

[kidzrevil]

Has anyone used the GH5 with the metabones speedbooster XL yet ? 

[Thpriest]

10 minutes ago, Fritz Pierre said:

Even all the more reason to try before you buy!...however....the combination of IBIS and the EVF pushed up against your eye will give you solid focus and extremely detailed footage...and the Voightlanders like the SlRMagics kill on this camera...forget all the mumbling about oversharpened and on and on...I repeat....this camera is extremely DETAILED!...the "negative" is very "thick" at 10bit...you are going to use the camera professionally...this camera is ridiculous at $2000!...I would also probably recommend a Tiffen pro mist 1/8 or 1/4 depending on your needs....you need to play with the picture profiles to see whether you can match to the C100 to your satisfaction...not sure I would recommend Vlog for you, but then again, you sound like you already know what you need!

Thanks. My idea is not to match the C100 with the GH5 but rather to have a lightweight kit for weddings and certain corporate jobs. I have a GX85 and the idea is to match it with that. The GX85 is too small a fiddly but the image is nice enough (not C100 standard but good enough). I have actually shot 5 weddings with the GX85! Going lightweight was great but as I said, it's too small and the EVF is no good for me (I where glasses and it is just too small). So GX85 static widest and GH5 everything else!

My other doubt is whether I can use the SANDISK EXTREME PRO SDXC 128Gb V30 95MB/s  for shooting 4k 10 bit and 4k 50p on the GH5. I use them with the GX85 and they are fine. I don't need 400mbs for weddings.

[Fritz Pierre]

17 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

Thanks. My idea is not to match the C100 with the GH5 but rather to have a lightweight kit for weddings and certain corporate jobs. I have a GX85 and the idea is to match it with that. The GX85 is too small a fiddly but the image is nice enough (not C100 standard but good enough). I have actually shot 5 weddings with the GX85! Going lightweight was great but as I said, it's too small and the EVF is no good for me (I where glasses and it is just too small). So GX85 static widest and GH5 everything else!

My other doubt is whether I can use the SANDISK EXTREME PRO SDXC 128Gb V30 95MB/s  for shooting 4k 10 bit and 4k 50p on the GH5. I use them with the GX85 and they are fine. I don't need 400mbs for weddings.

I would use 4 of these instead :https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-UHS-I-Flash-Memory/dp/B005LFT3UW

the 2 card slots are hot swappable and having 4 smaller cards are more foolproof...I've used these for years, and they are the only cards I have never dropped a single frame with....to me this is another huge feature to this camera....and for extra security you can write to both cards at the same time...in that case buy 8....the media is cheap...I doubt that you'll ever need the 400mb Intra update...I would give that time for the card requirements to sort themselves out anyway...you need reliability!...you will need extra at least one extra battery too...that would give you around 4 hours of recording time...the camera boots up instantly, so you can turn it off too, but if in doubt buy 2 spare batteries, as they take a while to charge...I would buy Panasonic batteries...and lastly...I have never had a Panasonic camera fail on any project....period!...and as you know, "hell knows no fury as that of a Bride who does not get her wedding footage!!"

[Thpriest]

5 minutes ago, Fritz Pierre said:

I would use 4 of these instead :https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-UHS-I-Flash-Memory/dp/B005LFT3UW

the 2 card slots are hot swappable and having 4 smaller cards are more foolproof...I've used these for years, and they are the only cards I have never dropped a single frame with....to me this is another huge feature to this camera....and for extra security you can write to both cards at the same time...in that case buy 8....the media is cheap...I doubt that you'll ever need the 400mb Intra update...I would give that time for the card requirements to sort themselves out anyway...you need reliability!...you will need extra at least one extra battery too...that would give you around 4 hours of recording time...the camera boots up instantly, so you can turn it off too, but if in doubt buy 2 spare batteries, as they take a while to charge...I would buy Panasonic batteries...and lastly...I have never had a Panasonic camera fail on any project....period!...and as you know, "hell knows no fury as that of a Bride who does not get her wedding footage!!"

Thanks! So that is why I like the idea of a GH%. Dual recording! I always use it on my C100. 

The 64gb are the same, just less capacity? I can see the benefit to that approach.

[Fritz Pierre]

8 hours ago, anonim said:

Am I wrong with great aesthetic admiration for such unpretentious using of GH2 + Voigt 17.5 f0.95 ("cinematic") combination... even at just 720p?

(Need to say that I've found that CV 17.5 is the most usable and produce the most beautiful picture in whole m43 range of lenses, IMHO.)

 

This is why I'll never sell mine lol...this camera will always be unparalleled in so many ways...primitive by today's standards,but a rare image....as is the case with the BMPCC...these are and always will be jewels, if you speak purely in terms of image!