Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[jonpais]

Former Red and BMMCC user, accomplished cinematographer, colorist and RAW zealot, switches over to the GH5.

@Fritz Pierre Thanks for recommending the Easyrig!

[Gregormannschaft]

On 13/11/2017 at 4:54 AM, jonpais said:

Former Red and BMMCC user, accomplished cinematographer, colorist and RAW zealot, switches over to the GH5.

@Fritz Pierre Thanks for recommending the Easyrig!

Old argument, but doesn't building this thing up so big make using such a small camera kind of pointless?

[Cinegain]

Is rigging up a RED or ARRI not a bit pointless either?

To bring up another old argument 'it's not about the size, it's about what you can do with it'. The GH-range lives and breathes production. That's been the whole point since the 5DmkII, T2i/550D, GH2, etc. These are entry level cameras for those who'd love to have some proper cinematography going on, but can't exactly afford to buy/rent a RED/ARRI and/or a whole crew to run it. However, cameras like the GH5 can function like a proper cinema camera, which is also why we see advanced features such as 10-bit, LOG, waveforms/vectorscope overlays, XLR adapter, full HDMI port, etc and lend themselves perfectly to be operated by just a single soul. That it is fairly compact and well-equiped of course allows for this single camera to be used in various ways (e.g. mounting inside of a car, not requiring a steadicam for follow around shots). In the same way you're probably not using ARRI SkyPanels but some Aputure LightStorm lights on your makeshift set and your talents are volunteers/friends etc rather than well-paid actors. But in the end the production value is up there, even on a budget and there's hardly an excuse anymore to not pursue your dreams and scripts because you don't have the budget. Filmmaking is more accessible than ever. It's probably however also harder to set yourself apart or gain traction for the undertakings you're passionate about... then again it also allows you to book well-paid commercial shoots, so atleast you can put some fancy food on the table. And concerning that, of course there's...

 

[jonpais]

+1 It's still ridiculously compact compared to using an actual cinema camera, and of course, it costs a ton less. I would go with an Easyrig rather than a shoulder rig, it takes the weight off of your shoulder and the strain off of your back (my rig must weigh around 12 pounds); an Easyrig also makes it possible to adjust the camera to eye level; Matthew Scott's setup in the video is too high for comfort and is probably going to lead to back problems in the future. Here's my twin enjoying his.  

[Cinegain]

Yeah, personally I'd go for a cage and further set-up in a kind of 'studio' environment, where you use the cage handle for low angles and stuff but also just throw it on a tripod, which is probably the main thing I'd use a full set-up for (talking heads/interviews). Not the hugest fan of any sort of mounting for shots that need mobility especially now that we've got 5-axis in-body stabilization. I'd be more inclined to strip things down to just the camera and perhaps the hot-/coldshoes (on camera/cage (for audio/external monitor/recorder)) and just shoot classic handheld. Depending on the lens you don't really need rails with follow focus and a matte box looks neat, but as long as you're not shooting something critical, something you can do a re-take on, I'd gladly risk some issues with focus and flares perhaps in favor of the light and simple set-up when moving around. Of course, when you need to, a top support with good body load distribution is a very worth while consideration.

[Vesku]

Has anyone tested GH5 internal mic quality?  I cant find any test result for GH5 mic audio quality. In my GH5 it seems to record low frequences much weaker than GH3/4. I must add bass quite much when listening my GH5 recordings. (Wind cut is off). 

GH5 mic quality is otherwise quite OK. The IBIS and handling noises are surprisingly low due to internal counter noise cancelling mic. I also made a foam wind filter which works well outdoors.

[Vesku]

Here is a comparison GH4 vs GH5 mic quality. GH5 internal mic sound clearly lacks low tones (bass). The difference in 20-100Hz is massive. Actually we can say GH5 does not record low tones (bass).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTMKCmB2Pcg

[jonpais]

Try using an external microphone. I recommend you watch some of Curtis Judd's excellent videos.

Your response to Joseph Moore (joe12south) over at dvxuser, who tried to be helpful by suggesting you use an external mic:

Actually internal mic can be quite good and I have some decent concert recordings with GH4. The sound with big surround system is very realistic and pleasant with strong deep bass and good atmosphere. A big diesel train passing my GH4 slowly or big waterfall in a hike are impressive with big speakers. It is a pity that GH5 does not record that.
I cant normally carry external mics, tripods or other additional stuff when experimenting the world.

And after @kidzrevil patiently explained to you how rec 709 works, you had this to say:

Lets forget SRD, HDR, rec709 and rec202 for a while. I shoot with my GH5 a 8bit file. I record about 12 stop dynamic range. I watch it and I can see that 12 stops dynamic range in my TV. There is texture in highlights and shadows. Image looks stunning and vivid in highs, mids and shadows. How is that possible?

So now we all know you can shoot 8-bit rec 709 with your GH5 and see an incredible 12 stops of dynamic range on your SDR television, and that you're able to get professional sounding audio with the built-in microphone with your GH4. 

It's a wonder you can shoot at all with your camera, considering all the problems you've been having!

Here's your list from Personal View:

the blinking record dot blinks too slowly and when stopping recording it disappears so quickly that I some times wonder if the recording was even on at all.

when changing iso only the back wheel works. It would be easier for me to use front wheel for iso adjustment. Why not both wheels adjust iso?

Auto iso limiter for video should have more steps. Now iso2000 or 2500 are not possible.

iso100 clips highlights. Maybe FW 2.0 will fix it.

50Mbs fullhd would be useful some times.

Video autofocus menu item on/off is not assignable to FN-button. Even better would be working AFS/AFC lever. Why cant it work

Exposure values (aperture, shutter speed and iso) are not visible in automatic video exposure modes. Why hide them?

iDynamic and wind cut filter has no symbol in screen (GH2 had those).

AFS/AFC lever is not working with 6k photo. It uses always AFC.

And from DPReview:

I was in a long hike with GH5 and figured an issue. The neck strap positioning is wrong in GH5 (and other cameras too). When hanging in neck the camera should set its position so that the lens points down. Now the camera hangs so that the lens points forward. The EVF hits chest and is in danger to get scratches and the lens collects dust and rain drops or moisture. The lens hood also hit in rocks when I was climbing in difficult places.

It would also be better to change lenses outdoors when the lens points down in neck strap. Less danger of getting dust inside.

Factory made EVF cover would also be very helpful in wet or dusty places. I have now a home made EVF cover. Every other optical instrument has an EVF or ocular dust cover. Why not a camera with high resolution multi coated sensitive EVF?

And on and on...

 

[Vesku]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

So now we all know ....that you're able to get professional sounding audio with the built-in microphone with your GH4

Did I say that? I said decent, realistic, pleasant. I also said to Joe that I may buy the mic he recommended. I have been very happy with GH4 internal audio. I think it is worth mentioning that GH5 has much worse frequency response than GH4. I wonder why no tester has figured it out. GH5 has bass filter (wind noise canceller). Why they want to cut bass also without it? Of course if I want professional audio or better hearing of people talking I would use directional ext mic. Actually I have one expensive Senheiser shotgun mic.

What my feature suggestion you think is not not good to have. If I would be a Panasonic engineer I would be very thankful that someone thinks and suggests features and handling improvements in different situations. It is not barking. It is user feedback, maybe not very polite but it is sharing information to make our cameras better. Panasonic has actually made many of my request of improvements to happen in GH4 and GH5.

[Vesku]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

So now we all know you can shoot 8-bit rec 709 with your GH5 and see an incredible 12 stops of dynamic range on your SDR television...

http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/micro-43/panasonic-gh4-dr-and-gamma-timelapse-and-more.html

"Cutting to the chase: 11+ stops in every gamma setting. VIVID and CINE V styles give you 10+ stops free and clear, with the 11th stop separating from black with a stretch of the shadows. All the others show 11 stops and a bit more,..."

GH4 normal profiles 11+ dyn range. I think it is fair to say that GH5 has then almost 12.

My TV has contrast ratio about 1:2000 - 1:4000.  1:2048 equals 11 stops and 1:4096 equals 12 stops light intensity difference. 

[jonpais]

@Vesku You waste all your valuable time looking at 400% enlargements, looking for grain, macroblocking and other artifacts. You devote 24 hours a day watching tests and sharing them on half-a-dozen websites and debating about the results. And if you can't find the proof you're looking for,  you curse the Web for not having the video you're looking for. 

You pose the very same questions on those same six websites, knowing full well what the answer will be - then proceed to contradict whatever anyone says. If an expert like Curtis Judd recommends using an external microphone, you say you should be able to capture the sound of waterfalls and diesel trains on a built-in microphone smaller than a fingernail clipping. That's right - have you ever noticed how tiny that mic is? And have you noticed its placement? That's right - it's on the camera! And everyone knows that you've got to get that microphone off the camera for good sound. 

It's a known fact that rec 709 was made to contain five, or at most, six stops of dynamic range, yet you insist that you're able to shoot 8-bit and see twelve stops of dynamic range on your television - six stops more than anyone else on the planet!

People generously offer advice, and without fail, you tell them they're mistaken. You did not immediately tell joe12south that you'd buy the microphone he recommended. You started out by talking about how your GH4 had a better built-in microphone. In other words, a built-in microphone should be capable of professional audio quality. 

Every time a new Panasonic camera is released, you do your best to find fault with it. 

You nitpick everything to death, like the neck strap of the GH5. Or the lens cap. The lens cap, for crying out loud!

But you don't have a single finished project to show for it. Not one. You deleted all the videos on your YouTube channel save one - a 10-second clip of lens jitter with the GH4.

I understand you want people to look up to you. But experienced photographers don't waste all their time and energy on forums pointing out what's wrong with their camera. They go out and shoot. But you're not a shooter. You're a whiner. You're not even being productive. You say you're responsible for so many improvements in Panasonic cameras, you're so filled with self-importance, but you're not helping the online community with your constant complaining. 

 

[Vesku]

35 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@Vesku You waste all your valuable time ....But you're not a shooter. You're a whiner. You're not even being productive..... you're so filled with self-importance, but you're not helping the online community with your constant complaining. 

Odd talking in technical hobby forum. You this, you that, You are ...., you cant, you dont understand....etc, etc. 

Have I never said anything personal to anyone. English is not my mother language so I can not be so sensitive and polite all the time. I want to talk about camera features. If I have different opinions about gear is that rude? If I share my findings about my GH5 or my TV how can it insult you? Is there only one right and proper way to use our gear? Is it insulting to use camera differently than your way. Why it is bad to be exited about hobby? Is it important to share private videos online? Is it wrong to share information of hopes or issues?

We have here in Finland very dark, depressive and wet season. I have now plenty of time to test my cameras and talk about my hobby online. Can you find my posts during last summer? What do you think I was doing? Yes I was shooting videos, thousands and thousands and my GH5 worked brilliantly. There is still always room for improvement. I am waiting new GH5 updates and new features. I hope Panasonic makes GH5 even better.

[PannySVHS]

On 7.11.2017 at 5:14 AM, Neumann Films said:

keep aN eyE on this thread in the coming Weeks.

Luke, I rather watch your science fiction shortfilm instead. Unless you are really talking about a very few more weeks. Full VLOG curve instead of L for the GH5? HD RAW mode- should be piece of cake if DJI Osmo did it? Awesome BTS video on your science fiction film as well! Thanks a lot!

[jonpais]

@Vesku Yes, it is vitally important to share your work. If you don't have a website, a blog, a YouTube channel, a showreel or anything tangible other than a year-old ten-second video of lens jitter, then your comments cannot be taken seriously. Over the years, you've catalogued dozens upon dozens of the supposed failings of Panasonic cameras; and more recently, you've made all kinds of wild claims that defy logic about the dynamic range and sound quality of your videos, but haven't shared a single one of them. So while in your mind, you believe you're making an invaluable contribution to the filmmaking community, in fact, your posts carry no weight whatsoever.  2+2=4, but you continue to insist that your calculations tell you that the answer is 3: that isn't sharing information, it's just plain trolling. So, rather than sitting on your sofa waiting for Panasonic to issue another update, why don't you just go out and shoot? 

[Neumann Films]

24 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Luke, I rather watch your science fiction shortfilm instead. Unless you are really talking about a very few more weeks. Full VLOG curve instead of L for the GH5? HD RAW mode- should be piece of cake if DJI Osmo did it? Awesome BTS video on your science fiction film as well! Thanks a lot!

Soon as in Friday/Saturday/Sunday for production.  This will be a sci-fi as well!

[PannySVHS]

Oh wow, I always get dizzy, when discussions heat up.

Dear Jon, I understand your point of view regarding some forum posts, which can come across as repetetive to some and with contradictions within their own argumentation. We should take the challenge and still be able to understand eachothers different communicational behaviours and needs.

Dear Vesku, I think your posts about the GH5 are starting to repeat its points. I enjoyed reading the first, second and third time but then I would start to miss some additional knowledge instead of the same and sometimes subjective information over and over again. For instance, I have shown a screenshot that there are obvious advantages of ALL I. Still, the disucussion about it has been keeping on going on over a few pages. One click on the thumbnail would have helped ending the doubts. ALL I shows much less IPB pixel clusters than IPB, to repeat my point on that issue this one time.:)

As for showing footage, indeed, there are not many if hardly any shorts on the web, which were shot with a G7, G85 nor GX85. Three of the most discussed DSLMs on this forum and so very few real shortfilms on the net.

6 minutes ago, Neumann Films said:

Soon as in Friday/Saturday/Sunday for production.  This will be a sci-fi as well!

Super cool! You guys have done so much awesome and motivating and inspiring stuff over the years!

So you are avoiding to give us penny pinchers promises on GH5 HD RAW mode or full VLOG curve. Is that a sign you are giving, which we can misinterpret?

[Vesku]

31 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Dear Vesku, I think your posts about the GH5 are starting to repeat its points. I enjoyed reading the first, second and third time but then I would start to miss some additional knowledge instead of the same and sometimes subjective information over and over again. For instance, I have shown a screenshot that there are obvious advantages of ALL I. Still, the disucussion about it has been keeping on going on over a few pages. One click on the thumbnail would have helped ending the doubts. ALL I shows much less IPB pixel clusters than IPB, to repeat my point on that issue this one time.:)

Thanks for your polite opinions. Can you share a link in this all-i test you have? I have not seen it. In fact there are very few real tests about all-i vs ipb. That was the reason I had to make my own tests and post it in some forums. There was surprisingly little interest of this 400Mbs talk. Many camera testers just repeat marketing specs but dont actually test anything.

[PannySVHS]

Hey Vesku, thank you for your reply. I just sent you a PM, so I don´t bloat this thread and keep my message slim and elegant:) Btw, I think the 400Mbps talk, which you started, has met plenty of interest! It was an interesting thread until it started repeating itself without evaluating the findings of advantages ALL I has to offer. But let me not start this all over again!:) cheers

[PannySVHS]

Okay, my finding. Already REC709, 8bit HD mode is astonishing. GH5 is a beast. I´ve been saying that a few times now. So, here is my quick trailer of the short I shot. Shot in 8bit glory. Editing a film is a total different beast though. So I hope the mood of my trailer will transfer well into the final shortfilm. It´s low bitrate uplaod, grade is still a bit rough on the edges.. Still hope it can give an impression about my findings with this camera. I might put a PW to this. It will be boxcar then.

 

[Neumann Films]

4 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Super cool! You guys have done so much awesome and motivating and inspiring stuff over the years!

So you are avoiding to give us penny pinchers promises on GH5 HD RAW mode or full VLOG curve. Is that a sign you are giving, which we can misinterpret?

Thanks man, I appreciate that a lot!

I really can't say much other tha...you know, this might require a new thread. Take from that what you will ?