Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[kye]

1 hour ago, TurboRat said:

Had lots of write speed errors with Sandisk Extreme cards that I used. Went with Freetail Evoke and Prograde instead and never had that kind of problems.

Damn.. I spoke to the guy in the shop and the critical part is UHS-II, the SanDisk card I have is only UHS-I.

I think that it's probably a case of the card being able to sustain that speed on average but the video probably doesn't get generated at a constant speed and if the camera buffer fills up then it will cause the error.

I've recorded a bunch of test clips at 400Mbps and 150Mbps and the 150 looks pretty amazing actually. I haven't compared them directly but I've heard that they're very similar, so I might just use that mode with the cards I have.

Apparently UHS-II cards are really expensive.

[webrunner5]

3 hours ago, kye said:

Damn.. I spoke to the guy in the shop and the critical part is UHS-II, the SanDisk card I have is only UHS-I.

I think that it's probably a case of the card being able to sustain that speed on average but the video probably doesn't get generated at a constant speed and if the camera buffer fills up then it will cause the error.

I've recorded a bunch of test clips at 400Mbps and 150Mbps and the 150 looks pretty amazing actually. I haven't compared them directly but I've heard that they're very similar, so I might just use that mode with the cards I have.

Apparently UHS-II cards are really expensive.

Yes they are. Ain't cheap to own a PK4 in the short run. And that card is on sale! You can pay more money for the media you Need than you paid for the damn camera. That is why I can't afford to buy it. ?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1090746-REG/lexar_lsd256crbna10002_pro_1000x_uhs_2.html?sts=pi

[kye]

4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yes they are. Ain't cheap to own a PK4 is the short run. And that card is on sale!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1090746-REG/lexar_lsd256crbna10002_pro_1000x_uhs_2.html?sts=pi

Cheaper than the cards for my XC10.  

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1067863-REG/transcend_ts256gcfx650_cfast_2_0_cfx650_flash.html

and that was just to get 305Mbps 4K!

[UncleBobsPhotography]

10 hours ago, kye said:

Yeah, it's the V30 one, with the 95MB/s speed.  

I just finished copying 190Gb of images onto it and then looked at a bunch of images to compare the card copy to the HDD and they all check out.  I'm satisfied it's not a fake.

I'm going into town today so will call past the camera place I bought it from and see if they have another high-speed card to try out.  Unfortunately that's the only fast card I have so I can't narrow down if it's the camera or that card, although the computer says it tests fine so that points to the camera.

I can't find the source, but I have read that the GH5's internal bus has a limit a lot lower than 95MB/s for UHS-l. For UHD-II, the internal bandwidth is doubled. A hypothetical 80MB/s UHS-II might therefore have a higher write speed in the GH5 than a 95MB/s UHS-I card

[kye]

That makes sense @UncleBobsPhotography and would explain why I'm not getting 50MBps in the GH5 on a card that gives 80MBps in the computer

I must say though, I went out again today and took some random test shots and the 150Mbps modes just floor me.  Even the FHD 180fps mode looks great.

The phrase "digital film" keeps coming into my head when I look at a clip, either fullscreen which looks soft and with wonderful colour subtlety or zoomed in hugely where it just looks like film grain.  My vintage lenses will be helping with this, but even the 14mm F2.5 still gives that impression too.  It's a mile away from the brittle and digital look most 4K mirrorless cameras shoot these days.

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, kye said:

Cheaper than the cards for my XC10.  

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1067863-REG/transcend_ts256gcfx650_cfast_2_0_cfx650_flash.html

and that was just to get 305Mbps 4K!

Is your C Fast card Fast enough for Raw in the PK4? All 10 seconds of it.

[kye]

9 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Is your C Fast card Fast enough for Raw in the PK4? All 10 seconds of it.

Ironically, if I bought the BMPCC4K instead of GH5 then I'd already have the expensive media!!

I don't think they're fast enough for 1:1 RAW at 60fps, but they're usable for every sensible mode.  See below - they test about the same as a SSD HDD.

[mirekti]

@jonpais This might have been covered already, but I don’t remember I read it. What color space should I use in Resolve for Input, Timeline and Output when I work with HLG footage?

For Output I should use Rec.709 as that’s the delivery Gamut, but what about Input and Timeline, does it matter?

PS I don’t have HDR monitor.

Thanks

[buggz]

1 hour ago, mirekti said:

@jonpais This might have been covered already, but I don’t remember I read it. What color space should I use in Resolve for Input, Timeline and Output when I work with HLG footage?

For Output I should use Rec.709 as that’s the delivery Gamut, but what about Input and Timeline, does it matter?

PS I don’t have HDR monitor.

Thanks

I use the following:

- In Project Settings, under Color Management, Change to Davinci Color Managed
- Under Color Management select:
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Input Color Space
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Timeline Color Space
-- Rec 709 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Output Color Space

[mirekti]

13 minutes ago, buggz said:

I use the following:

Thanks. Once this is set I simply apply Lemmings LUT i.e. there is no some kind of collision between the these two actions (ColorSpace setting and Lemming LUT)?

[buggz]

No idea, though I keep purchasing the Lemming LUT, and some others, I have actually not used any of them.

The Alexa stuff from Sage looks good too, BTW...

Perhaps one day, I will have the time to play and learn some more about these.

As it is, my demanding, high pressure full time+, job keeps me down, sigh...

[kye]

11 hours ago, mirekti said:

Thanks. Once this is set I simply apply Lemmings LUT i.e. there is no some kind of collision between the these two actions (ColorSpace setting and Lemming LUT)?

The best way to think about these things is in terms of colour spaces.

If you film in HLG then apply a LUT that is expecting HLG then the LUT will work as designed.  If you film in HLG and apply a LUT that is expecting VLog then it will not work as designed and the picture will go all strange.

You can use the Colour Space Transform or Input settings to change colour spaces if you like.

For example, you could film in HLG, transform to VLog using the GHa Pre LUT from @Sage, then apply a Colour Space Transform to go from VLog to LogC, then apply a film emulation LUT that is expecting LogC footage and the results will be fine (I've done exactly that).

I highly recommend Juan Melaras YT channel to understand how pros use Resolve - it's completely different to all the other YT colourists.  He's the only YouTuber that I've watched the videos over and over again, studying them to understand what he's doing and how it all works.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqi6295cdFJI9VUPzIN4NXQ

[Sage]

@kye That'll certainly do it; swap the VLog to LogC transform for GHa LogC in Mirekti's case. Big HLG to VLog update incoming.

[mirekti]

21 minutes ago, Sage said:

swap the VLog to LogC

This could sound silly, but why is this done? Is there something out there that I should prefer to go to LogC? 

[Sage]

1 hour ago, mirekti said:

This could sound silly, but why is this done? Is there something out there that I should prefer to go to LogC? 

You've got GHa, which includes the 'LogC' variation. This is different from color management in that it is a measured conversion that specifically matches the end result of GH5 color sci to the end result of Alexa color sci, capturing sensor and WB+light source results (just like the HLG to VLog). This is a lot more accurate in terms of color and rolloff. The subsequent film conversion, which would have been made to an Alexa end result, will be a lot more accurate as a result.

LogC, in itself, is ideal for film conversions, because they have kept it rigorously defined since the camera's initial release, and companies tend to put their best efforts into supporting Arri, while other cameras are unsupported or roughly so. For example, Panasonic's VLog implementation shifts with each camera.

[mirekti]

19 minutes ago, Sage said:

You've got GHa, which includes the 'LogC

Sorry, but still a bit confused here. When I capture in vLog then I simply apply GHa Daylight for example, but I could also go from vLog to LogC (without applying Daylight), and then find LUTs for LogC and apply them on top of it, is that the point?

[Sage]

19 minutes ago, mirekti said:

Sorry, but still a bit confused here. When I capture in vLog then I simply apply GHa Daylight for example, but I could also go from vLog to LogC (without applying Daylight), and then find LUTs for LogC and apply them on top of it, is that the point?

That's exactly right, that's what @Wild Ranger does often. That said, Main/Soft are almost always the best way to go, in my opinion (for Arri color), over the LogC route

[BrunoLandMedia]

Hey Everyone,

I hate to keep posting in this topic, but I don't want to start anything new as it seems this is where everything GH5 is. I've been asking and researching around for months trying to figure out what is best for me and I still had a few questions and wanted to get everyones take. 

1. I really need a camera with no recording limits and clean HDMI out for streaming to replace my old Canon XA10 camcorder. So after tons of research, it came down to c100 (I or II) or GH5.

2. I also currently use my canon 6d2 for my run and gun video and have lots of Canon Glass. (was planning on replacing with EOS R, but that's another story at the moment)

3. My initial thought was to get a c100 as the A cam for all event stuff and continue to use my 6d2/EOS R as run and gun.

4. Then I did 100 hours of research on GH5 thinking maybe it could replace BOTH cameras with the speedbooster (Metabones or other) for my canon glass to do events, interviews, etc, and get a native Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8 for the dual IS for run and gun. compact and easy package. 

5. My biggest issues and questions.

- Will I be disappointed in GH5 color vs Canon, regardless of functions. 
- Will the speedbooster work well enough with my glass, and which brand and multiplier?
- are the native Panasonic Lenses worth buying at all. is the 12-35 good and with Dual IS, or should I just use a canon 24-105 f/4
- Will the autofocus be as good as Canon for the run and gun. Not needed as much for events as I usually man focus for the stage. 

Notes. regardless. I will be keeping my Canon 80d at least for home photo/video use plan to keep most of my Canon glass. I won't shoot 4k 99% of the time due to fast and easy delivery of content.

My budget can handle a GH5, Speed booster and the 12-35, but that is about it without selling some other gear. 

Thanks so much. Just so nervous about using another system

 

[kye]

4 hours ago, Sage said:

That's exactly right, that's what @Wild Ranger does often. That said, Main/Soft are almost always the best way to go, in my opinion (for Arri color), over the LogC route

Now I have a question!

Would these two workflows provide the same colour and gamut?

1. ARRI Alexa recording in LogC -> standard LogC to Rec709 conversion
2. GH5 in HLG -> HLG (Pre) LUT -> Main LUT

If so, then in theory these two would also be the same:

1. ARRI Alexa recording in LogC -> LogC to Rec709 conversion via a film conversion LUT in Resolve
2. GH5 in HLG -> HLG (Pre) LUT -> Main LUT -> Rec709 to LogC conversion -> LogC to Rec709 conversion via a film conversion LUT in Resolve

Or have a missed something?

There are a bunch of LUTs that expect a LogC input and this seems like the best way to get a LogC output while still maintaining the Alexa 'look'.

3 hours ago, BrunoLandMedia said:

Hey Everyone,

I hate to keep posting in this topic, but I don't want to start anything new as it seems this is where everything GH5 is. I've been asking and researching around for months trying to figure out what is best for me and I still had a few questions and wanted to get everyones take. 

1. I really need a camera with no recording limits and clean HDMI out for streaming to replace my old Canon XA10 camcorder. So after tons of research, it came down to c100 (I or II) or GH5.

2. I also currently use my canon 6d2 for my run and gun video and have lots of Canon Glass. (was planning on replacing with EOS R, but that's another story at the moment)

3. My initial thought was to get a c100 as the A cam for all event stuff and continue to use my 6d2/EOS R as run and gun.

4. Then I did 100 hours of research on GH5 thinking maybe it could replace BOTH cameras with the speedbooster (Metabones or other) for my canon glass to do events, interviews, etc, and get a native Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8 for the dual IS for run and gun. compact and easy package. 

5. My biggest issues and questions.

- Will I be disappointed in GH5 color vs Canon, regardless of functions. 
- Will the speedbooster work well enough with my glass, and which brand and multiplier?
- are the native Panasonic Lenses worth buying at all. is the 12-35 good and with Dual IS, or should I just use a canon 24-105 f/4
- Will the autofocus be as good as Canon for the run and gun. Not needed as much for events as I usually man focus for the stage. 

Notes. regardless. I will be keeping my Canon 80d at least for home photo/video use plan to keep most of my Canon glass. I won't shoot 4k 99% of the time due to fast and easy delivery of content.

My budget can handle a GH5, Speed booster and the 12-35, but that is about it without selling some other gear. 

Thanks so much. Just so nervous about using another system

I am not an expert, but the AF is the weak point of the GH5.  It depends on how you use it (Single AF is fine, it's the continuous AF that's not always reliable).

My understanding is that the colour science is fine, but this is something that is very subjective and you might be looking for something specific.  I'd look for yourself and make sure you're happy with it.

Having said that, I have both an XC10 (which shoots 8-bit 305Mbps C-Log) and a GH5, so if you want me to film something with both then I can send you a frame SOOC for you to grade and compare if you really want to examine the colour science yourself.

[webrunner5]

Easy for anyone to suggest something. . But I would go C100 with the DPAF option, as the A cam, and keep the 80D for the B cam and use it for daily, personal use. On average you can use the same lenses on both and the Color Science will match. And Both will have DPAF. Win Win. Now if you Need 4K isn't going to work. But do you Really need 4k? 1080p on the C100 is as good as 4K on most cameras. The 80D, ehh not so much.

No way the non native lenses you have will work good on the GH5 or the AF as good., not counting you will never match the CS to each. Not easy to go with two different manufacturers and have it work out well.