Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[kye]

7 hours ago, dbp said:

I'm way late to the party, but just ordered the GH5! 

I have no illusions that it'll be some supremely groundbreaking image, but I do think it'll be the funnest and easiest camera I've ever used to just pick up and shoot stuff with.

Welcome.  Heaps of knowledge here so post questions / comments.  

What projects are you planning on using it for?  What lenses / accessories will you use with it?

[dbp]

11 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

It has a great image btw. Pretty much no moire or aliasing which can't be said for a lot of more expensive cameras. Also internal 10 bit 422 

Oh yes, I definitely don't want to imply that it's bad. Just that I know in the eternal chase for the absolute best IQ, it might not be top of the heap anymore. But still very good.

6 hours ago, kye said:

Welcome.  Heaps of knowledge here so post questions / comments.  

What projects are you planning on using it for?  What lenses / accessories will you use with it?

I'm living in DC now, just trying to get established, so probably lots of corporate / live event work. Maaaaaaaaaybe weddings. Build that stuff up to make money, and then slowly work into some more artsy fun stuff like music videos / short films on the side. 

But I gotta find the money first.

For lenses, I have the Rokinon 12 f2, Panasonic 20 f1.7, Nikon 50 1.8, Sigma 60 f2.8. 

Zhiyun Crane v2 for a gimbal. Some LED lights (2xAputure 672s) and a few others.

Slowly gonna build my kit up. I desperately need a better tripod, but after that it'll probably be lenses. Definitely the 42.5 f1.7 at some point, for talking heads. Then some kinda zoom for live events. I know everyone loves the Sigma 18-35, but I feel like something longer is more valuable in a zoom. The Sigma 50-100 or Panasonic 35-100, something like that.

Oh, and I ordered V-log with it. Excited to play with that.

[kye]

2 hours ago, dbp said:

I'm living in DC now, just trying to get established, so probably lots of corporate / live event work. Maaaaaaaaaybe weddings. Build that stuff up to make money, and then slowly work into some more artsy fun stuff like music videos / short films on the side. 

But I gotta find the money first.

For lenses, I have the Rokinon 12 f2, Panasonic 20 f1.7, Nikon 50 1.8, Sigma 60 f2.8. 

Zhiyun Crane v2 for a gimbal. Some LED lights (2xAputure 672s) and a few others.

Slowly gonna build my kit up. I desperately need a better tripod, but after that it'll probably be lenses. Definitely the 42.5 f1.7 at some point, for talking heads. Then some kinda zoom for live events. I know everyone loves the Sigma 18-35, but I feel like something longer is more valuable in a zoom. The Sigma 50-100 or Panasonic 35-100, something like that.

Oh, and I ordered V-log with it. Excited to play with that.

It's a workhorse, so putting it to work to earn it's keep is the right strategy

I don't really know what lenses are good for corporate, but your existing lineup seems pretty good.  The 42.5/1.7 is pretty close to 50/1.8 so maybe something closer to 35mm might be more useful?  Slightly cropping in-post is normally fine even if you're delivering 4K so you can always go a little tighter than the lens if you need to.

The 18-35 is a beautiful lens, but it's pretty heavy in comparison to primes.  The 12-35/2.8 has a great reputation and a bit more zoom range.  If you can go slower than 2.8 then there are longer zooms than that, although be aware that 12-35/2.8 on MFT is the same as 24-70/5.6 on FF, so it's not the same as a 24-70/2.8, or even the 24-70/4.

I don't have the v-log but shoot HLG instead, but I understand that both do a good job and it's more about your post-production workflow and if you have LUTs already etc.

[dbp]

12 minutes ago, kye said:

It's a workhorse, so putting it to work to earn it's keep is the right strategy

I don't really know what lenses are good for corporate, but your existing lineup seems pretty good.  The 42.5/1.7 is pretty close to 50/1.8 so maybe something closer to 35mm might be more useful?  Slightly cropping in-post is normally fine even if you're delivering 4K so you can always go a little tighter than the lens if you need to.

The 18-35 is a beautiful lens, but it's pretty heavy in comparison to primes.  The 12-35/2.8 has a great reputation and a bit more zoom range.  If you can go slower than 2.8 then there are longer zooms than that, although be aware that 12-35/2.8 on MFT is the same as 24-70/5.6 on FF, so it's not the same as a 24-70/2.8, or even the 24-70/4.

I don't have the v-log but shoot HLG instead, but I understand that both do a good job and it's more about your post-production workflow and if you have LUTs already etc.

The 50 1.8 is beautiful in a lot of ways, but it has.....character, I guess you could say, when it's wide open. Noticeably soft. Has a weird blooming effect in the highlights. I honestly like it quite a bit for wedding B-roll, but I've avoided it for talking heads. So it's effectively a 50 f2.8 for interviews. That's why I have my eye on the 42.5 f1.7. I know that will look good wide open.

I love M43 in general, but the zooms are the only downfall. I reaaaaaaaaaally wish there some in the 1.7 or even 2.0 range.  2.8 is rough in most indoors venues with the GH series (excluding GH5s). The Sigma's are big and clunky.  Trade-offs one way or another! Just depends on what kind of work I do. I only have interest in the zooms if I end up doing lots of live-event stuff.

 

[kye]

8 hours ago, dbp said:

The 50 1.8 is beautiful in a lot of ways, but it has.....character, I guess you could say, when it's wide open. Noticeably soft. Has a weird blooming effect in the highlights. I honestly like it quite a bit for wedding B-roll, but I've avoided it for talking heads. So it's effectively a 50 f2.8 for interviews. That's why I have my eye on the 42.5 f1.7. I know that will look good wide open.

I love M43 in general, but the zooms are the only downfall. I reaaaaaaaaaally wish there some in the 1.7 or even 2.0 range.  2.8 is rough in most indoors venues with the GH series (excluding GH5s). The Sigma's are big and clunky.  Trade-offs one way or another! Just depends on what kind of work I do. I only have interest in the zooms if I end up doing lots of live-event stuff.

Ah, yes, vintage lenses are a different aesthetic.  It's common for pros to have two sets of lenses, one vintage and one modern, although if you're shooting higher budget cine stuff then you often hire the modern ones (CP.2 etc) and keep the vintage set for yourself for low budget or personal projects (and maybe to hire out).  It's about choosing which aesthetic suits the project.

There's a new panasonic 10-25mm f1.7 in the works if that helps.  But I fully agree with you, FF has the 2.8 holy trinity, APSC has the Sigma 1.8 pair, and MFT has ......  nothing.  The holy trinity for MFT would be 8-12/1.4 + 12-35/1.4 + 35-100/1.4 and theres nothing even close.  In live event stuff you may be torn between having a zoom with a wider range vs faster aperture.

[thebrothersthre3]

9 minutes ago, kye said:

Ah, yes, vintage lenses are a different aesthetic.  It's common for pros to have two sets of lenses, one vintage and one modern, although if you're shooting higher budget cine stuff then you often hire the modern ones (CP.2 etc) and keep the vintage set for yourself for low budget or personal projects (and maybe to hire out).  It's about choosing which aesthetic suits the project.

There's a new panasonic 10-25mm f1.7 in the works if that helps.  But I fully agree with you, FF has the 2.8 holy trinity, APSC has the Sigma 1.8 pair, and MFT has ......  nothing.  The holy trinity for MFT would be 8-12/1.4 + 12-35/1.4 + 35-100/1.4 and theres nothing even close.  In live event stuff you may be torn between having a zoom with a wider range vs faster aperture.

Some vintage glass is really nice wide open but most when stopped down a notch perform really well. For me the law of diminishing returns comes into play when comparing with higher end glass. Depends on the specific lens in question of course. 

[dbp]

1 hour ago, kye said:

Ah, yes, vintage lenses are a different aesthetic.  It's common for pros to have two sets of lenses, one vintage and one modern, although if you're shooting higher budget cine stuff then you often hire the modern ones (CP.2 etc) and keep the vintage set for yourself for low budget or personal projects (and maybe to hire out).  It's about choosing which aesthetic suits the project.

There's a new panasonic 10-25mm f1.7 in the works if that helps.  But I fully agree with you, FF has the 2.8 holy trinity, APSC has the Sigma 1.8 pair, and MFT has ......  nothing.  The holy trinity for MFT would be 8-12/1.4 + 12-35/1.4 + 35-100/1.4 and theres nothing even close.  In live event stuff you may be torn between having a zoom with a wider range vs faster aperture.

Totally. I suppose it's not a matter of better, but just different. I'll probably pick up a few more cheap Nikon AI primes, as I like the aesthetic alot, and they'll work well with the IBIS.

I did look at the 10-25. Figured it would cost an arm and a leg, and.........yep! $2500. Yikes, no thanks. Maybe a FF lens that could live on in other bodies, but I just feel like I might as well speedbooster and Sigma 18-35 at that point. 

Also, I don't know if this is just me, but I don't value a zoom on the wide end nearly as much. In those situations, I'm happy to either swap or zoom with my feet. It's the long end that I need to adjust quickly. Getting caught on a tight prime at a live event when you really need something wider is a bad place to be.

One thing I'm curious about is V-log at 4K / 60p.  I've heard horror stories with 8bit vlog but I'm hoping maybe it's not as bad as everyone says? 

[kye]

1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Some vintage glass is really nice wide open but most when stopped down a notch perform really well. For me the law of diminishing returns comes into play when comparing with higher end glass. Depends on the specific lens in question of course. 

It does.

I've found there to be three different types of lenses:

• Fast ones that are soft wide-open but sharpen up stopped down two stops
• Slow ones that are sharp wide-open (are probably just the previous ones without the wider aperture adjustment)
• Fast ones that are sharp wide-open and cost an arm and a leg!

I have a set of the first ones (fast/soft wide-open) and in a sense you get two aesthetics in one.  You can always apply a slight blur in post to make the narrower aperture settings look soft like the wide-open end, and if you only have an odd shot wide-open here or there you can often sharpen them up so that they don't stand out in a sequence.

15 minutes ago, dbp said:

Totally. I suppose it's not a matter of better, but just different. I'll probably pick up a few more cheap Nikon AI primes, as I like the aesthetic alot, and they'll work well with the IBIS.

I did look at the 10-25. Figured it would cost an arm and a leg, and.........yep! $2500. Yikes, no thanks. Maybe a FF lens that could live on in other bodies, but I just feel like I might as well speedbooster and Sigma 18-35 at that point. 

Also, I don't know if this is just me, but I don't value a zoom on the wide end nearly as much. In those situations, I'm happy to either swap or zoom with my feet. It's the long end that I need to adjust quickly. Getting caught on a tight prime at a live event when you really need something wider is a bad place to be.

One thing I'm curious about is V-log at 4K / 60p.  I've heard horror stories with 8bit vlog but I'm hoping maybe it's not as bad as everyone says? 

Yeah, just different.  I really like the IBIS for being able to stabilise manual primes, and that's one of the main reasons I bought my GH5 mid-last year.  

Yes, for $2.5k for a lens, you're almost better off buying two primes and a second GH5 and just carrying two setups  

[Towd]

If you guys are into manual focus primes, I'm really impressed by the Meike 25mm t2.2, and I'd imagine their new 16mm is just as good.  It's very well built, incredibly sharp, and has a beautiful out of focus rendition.  Having always wanted to try some Veydra primes, I couldn't resist the chance to test out the Meike for the $330 price tag. 

If you look at Veydra's performance in some MTF tests from Lens Rentals, they put some Zeiss CP.2s to shame.  Even at T2.2 they look to just edge out the best Pany-Leica and Olympus pro glass stopped down to F 2.8.

Some links to compare MTF tests:

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2018/03/veydra-cine-mini-prime-mtf-optical-bench-tests/

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2018/03/finally-some-more-m43-mtf-testing-are-the-40s-fabulous/

I'm currently in the post hell of a large project I'm wrapping, and will not get a chance to really test the lens out for a while, but I've been towing my GH5 with the Meike around and shooting a few random things when I get a moment.   Here's a few frame grabs from Resolve.  The horse was shot around T4-5.6.  The others were wide open.  Everything was shot in V-log with a quickie color grade so I could see what I was looking at.  No sharpening in camera or post.

Based on how happy I am with the Meike, I might end up collecting a few of these if Veydra doesn't make a return to producing lenses.

[Kisaha]

The 12-100mm 4f Olympus is an amazing do it all run n gun zoom.

Yes, it is 4f, but that keeps its size and weight at minimum, while even with the GH5 (not a great low light camera) can be - and it is - used in most instances.

For a GH5S/P4K/Z camera that can go easily up to 3200-6400ISO this lens is all you need. And the subject separation is there is you zoom in a bit. Nothing like a good tele end for walking heads and whatnot.

[webrunner5]

Interesting what Roger says about Voigtlander lenses on Lens Rentals.

"OK, I stated on the last set of tests that I despise Voigtlander lenses. That’s because they simply can’t be repaired reasonably and parts are not available, so they are basically disposable lenses. But, I have to say, I was markedly impressed by the 25mm Voigtlander’s performance. And this lens provides by far the widest aperture at a middle-of-the-road $800 price tag. You pay a weight penalty because of the metal housing (and if you think a metal housing makes lenses more reliable, come spend a day in our repair shop). But you get a 10-bladed aperture with that. And yes, I’m aware a lot of you won’t consider a manually focusing lens. But some of you will".

[Towd]

Yeah, as nice as the Meike I have feels, and weighs I wouldn't want to see if it would survive a drop onto concrete.  For the price, "disposable lens" is probably an apt description.   But who knows...  maybe it's a tank when abused.  I really can't tell from holding it.

If I had a huge youtube channel, I'd buy two and run a physical torture test on one to see how it survives. 

[dbp]

Got it! Taking shots of my cat, naturally. Anyone know what the deal is with "E-Stabilization" under the stabilizer menu? It seems to crop in slightly. Does it add much or is the IBIS good enough alone?

[Towd]

8 minutes ago, dbp said:

Got it! Taking shots of my cat, naturally. Anyone know what the deal is with "E-Stabilization" under the stabilizer menu? It seems to crop in slightly. Does it add much or is the IBIS good enough alone?

That's the digital stabilizer that shifts the image on the sensor.  Kind of like an in camera version of post stabilization.  I prefer to just use the mechanical sensor stabilization and lens stabilization if a lens has it, and add digital stabilization in post.   If you need it and don't want to bother with the post work, it adds a little more smoothing to your video.

One difference between the mechanical and e-stabilization though is that the regular sensor stabilization will help correct for the motion blur in micro jitters, but e-stabilization will not.

[dbp]

7 minutes ago, Towd said:

That's the digital stabilizer that shifts the image on the sensor.  Kind of like an in camera version of post stabilization.  I prefer to just use the mechanical sensor stabilization and lens stabilization if a lens has it, and add digital stabilization in post.   If you need it and don't want to bother with the post work, it adds a little more smoothing to your video.

One difference between the mechanical and e-stabilization though is that the regular sensor stabilization will help correct for the motion blur in micro jitters, but e-stabilization will not.

Gotcha! Definitely no e-stabilization for me then.

I love this thing so far. IBIS is great, quite something on my 60mm. That used to be unusable handheld.

Another big surprised is how usable ISO 3200 is. Noticeably better than the GH4. 

[Towd]

8 minutes ago, dbp said:

Another big surprised is how usable ISO 3200 is. Noticeably better than the GH4. 

Yeah, people completely blow out of proportion the noise on the GH5.  With some minimal work in post it cleans up really nicely-- especially if you are delivering in 2k it's just a non-issue.

I think a lot of reviewers just discount it to avoid trolls who might discredit their standards.  None of these people I think have ever worked with film or the early generation digital cinema cameras that were noisy as hell.

[thebrothersthre3]

1 hour ago, dbp said:

Gotcha! Definitely no e-stabilization for me then.

I love this thing so far. IBIS is great, quite something on my 60mm. That used to be unusable handheld.

Another big surprised is how usable ISO 3200 is. Noticeably better than the GH4. 

I like E-stabilization, it adds a lot. It can add weird jitters if you are doing a lot of movement though. 

I agree the GH5 at 3200 is probably better than the GH4 at 1600 iso. 

[dbp]

This is, without a doubt, my favorite camera I've ever used.

[Video Hummus]

13 hours ago, dbp said:

This is, without a doubt, my favorite camera I've ever used.

I have a GH5S, so no IBIS, and I just received my shiny new Pana-Leica 50-200mm f2.8-4. The OIS on this lens is pretty insane. I didn’t expect I could hand hold it at 200mm and get rock solid video of birds in flight. I deliberated between this lens and the Olympus 40-150 f2.8 but finally settled on the 50-200 because of the OIS. So glad I did. The variable aperture is not a problem with the GH5S as I can easily shoot up to 8000 ISO before I need to do some noise reduction in post. Especially if I’m downsampling 4K footage into a 2K delivery.

Cant wait to start shooting some projects I’ve had on my list.

[dbp]

6 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I have a GH5S, so no IBIS, and I just received my shiny new Pana-Leica 50-200mm f2.8-4. The OIS on this lens is pretty insane. I didn’t expect I could hand hold it at 200mm and get rock solid video of birds in flight. I deliberated between this lens and the Olympus 40-150 f2.8 but finally settled on the 50-200 because of the OIS. So glad I did. The variable aperture is not a problem with the GH5S as I can easily shoot up to 8000 ISO before I need to do some noise reduction in post. Especially if I’m downsampling 4K footage into a 2K delivery.

Cant wait to start shooting some projects I’ve had on my list.

Wow, that low light performance is really something. the GH5s really does open up possibilities of using different lenses in situations I would never have been able to get away with before. It's definitely my no-brainer choice for a second body eventually.

I thought a lot about the BMPCC4K, but I'm just in no mood to deal with trade-offs and workarounds anymore. 

The GH series just works. If they ever get internal NDs in there, I feel like that's the final frontier.