jase Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 minute ago, jonpais said: To be honest, I do notice it, and you should, too. The images stutter. Not that I don't like your videos. Would you mind pointing me to a specific sequence? I just want to see whether I will notice it once someone is putting my nose onto it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 hour ago, mercer said: I think he was being a grammar nazi, rather than an auto shutter nazi You can be rude all you like. The fact is, I think most of us admire the work of PannySVHS and Jase, so I'm not being critical of them. But shutter angle does matter - it affects the final image, and like frame rates, it can be used creatively. And for that very reason, I don't want my camera dictating the shutter angle to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrik Lyhne Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 19 hours ago, Orangenz said: So you're just making stuff up? Waste of space. And then you resort to strawman arguments. You probably are kidz for all I know. Yes I'm just making stuff up. That's why I use my real name when I discuss things on the internet @mercer I think you might be right that it's not as noticeable in daylight. I noticed a big difference in color when I compared the 12mm to 12-35mm, but it seems to be a smaller difference in daylight. @kidzrevil yes, there is a noticeable color shift to yellow from +/-0 to -1. And +1 doesn't do for me. Did you see that color shift in your tests as well? One important thing to remember is that we all have different shooting scenarios so I don't believe there are different methods that can work in different situations. Thanks for sharing your opinion guys. I will do more testing to see what suits me the best and it's probably gonna be zebras at 90 as many of you are saying, but I will do more testing with 100 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 hours ago, jonpais said: You can be rude all you like. The fact is, I think most of us admire the work of PannySVHS and Jase, so I'm not being critical of them. But shutter angle does matter - it affects the final image, and like frame rates, it can be used creatively. And for that very reason, I don't want my camera dictating the shutter angle to me. Yeah... because I'm the rude one in this scenario... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 44 minutes ago, mercer said: Yeah... because I'm the rude one in this scenario... Maybe it's me... I just finished watching a shootout between the Angry Photographer and Jason Lanier at midday on a horse farm in Lexington, Kentucky. Much of their shooting was outdoors on a sunny day in the shade. Jason regularly shot at ISO 100-200, whereas several of Ken Wheeler's shots, taken in the same lighting, were from between ISO 1600 and ISO 3200. I'm thinking perhaps Ken left his camera on automatic, because there's absolutely no reason to shoot at such high ISOs on a bright day. I've never used auto anything, so I have to ask @PannySVHS: when shooting aperture priority, do you even know what shutter speed the camera is selecting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, jonpais said: Maybe it's me... I just finished watching a shootout between the Angry Photographer and Jason Lanier at midday on a horse farm in Lexington, Kentucky. Much of their shooting was outdoors on a sunny day in the shade. Jason regularly shot at ISO 100-200, whereas several of Ken Wheeler's shots, taken in the same lighting, were from between ISO 1600 and ISO 3200. I'm thinking perhaps Ken left his camera on automatic, because there's absolutely no reason to shoot at such high ISOs on a bright day. I've never used auto anything, so I have to ask @PannySVHS: when shooting aperture priority, do you even know what shutter speed the camera is selecting? I actually don't disagree with you, Jon. If I ever shoot in any auto mode, I always shoot in Shutter Priority, but the only time I ever do that is with compacts or bridge cameras. But Jase and kidz have been using shutter speed to aid their exposure, instead of NDs, for years and it works for them, and I enjoy their videos... so who am I to say. Unless you're shootings narratives, it probably doesn't really matter anyway. But then again, I only shoot wide open and use a variable ND to expose, so what hell do I know. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 45 minutes ago, mercer said: I actually don't disagree with you, Jon. If I ever shoot in any auto mode, I always shoot in Shutter Priority, but the only time I ever do that is with compacts or bridge cameras. But Jase and kidz have been using shutter speed to aid their exposure, instead of NDs, for years and it works for them, and I enjoy their videos... so who am I to say. Unless you're shootings narratives, it probably doesn't really matter anyway. But then again, I only shoot wide open and use a variable ND to expose, so what hell do I know. There really are no hard and fast rules for anything, be it exposure, shutter speeds, stabilization and so on. I would think, however, that if you're shooting aperture priority, the shutter speed would constantly be changing, as would the smoothness or jitteriness of a shot (depending on the shutter angle), from the beginning to the end of each clip, as far as I understand it. So that couldn't be a desirable thing. I suppose if the subject were completely immobile, it wouldn't be a big deal. Edit: I did try shooting at higher shutter speeds twice in my life, once of some fancy motorbikes sitting outside a restaurant here, and again during my field test of the Olympus 75mm f/1.8, and I found the stuttering motion to be pretty disturbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 minute ago, jonpais said: There really are no hard and fast rules for anything, be it exposure, shutter speeds, stabilization and so on. I would think, however, that if you're shooting aperture priority, the shutter speed would constantly be changing, as would the smoothness or jitteriness of a shot (depending on the shutter angle), from beginning to end, as far as I understand it. So that couldn't be a desirable thing. Idk, I think it probably works like AWB. If there is a need for exposure change, then the shutter speed may change, or maybe the aperture will, or the ISO. It would be interesting to know which changes when, but I don't know if many cameras tell you that. There are ways to trick the camera like an ISO limit. Or with compacts that have internal NDs, when in Shutter Priority mode, I would limit the ISO, enable the highest strength of ND to attempt to force the aperture to open all the way for shallow depth of field. This way if I moved the camera, I could get a gradual exposure shift while still keeping within the +/- exposure parameters I set. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I've avoided buying variable ND filters up till now, thinking they degrade the image more than single value NDs, but I want to do more walk n talk videos where the light is always changing, and I'm thinking a fader (or adjustable) filter might be the answer. Continually changing the aperture during a shoot is not only disruptive, it also means moving the camera, whereas perhaps lightly turning the ND would be smoother. Not really sure, I've never owned a fader ND, and I haven't heard back from anyone on this yet. I could also always cut out small sections if they're a bit shaky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, jonpais said: I've avoided buying variable ND filters up till now, thinking they degrade the image more than single value NDs, but I want to do more walk n talk videos where the light is always changing, and I'm thinking a fader (or adjustable) filter might be the answer. Continually changing the aperture during a shoot is not only disruptive, it also means moving the camera, whereas perhaps lightly turning the ND would be smoother. Not really sure, I've never owned a fader ND, and I haven't heard back from anyone on this yet. I would be lost without a variable ND. It is true they degrade the image more than single NDs but there are some high quality ones where I think the benefits outweigh the negatives. I do recommend getting one with hard stops, so you avoid the dreaded X pattern that can occur if you add too much. But, with your native lenses and desire to move around, you may want to test Shutter Priority mode. I recently used it with the FZ2500 and the change in exposure was fairly gradual. You can also use zebras and exposure compensation so you can stay within your ETTR preferences. As I mentioned before, you can add a variable ND to your lens, to trick a more open aperture and use auto ISO with a limiter. Six months ago I would have scoffed at the idea of shooting in Shutter Priority but as I was, I think you may be pleasantly surprised. And I assume if the exposure change is too jarring, you could isolate it in post and soften the change. Or even cut around it. It's like walking with IS... show that angle until it doesn't work, then cut to a different angle or shot. As long as you get coverage, you'll always have another angle to cut to... or maybe a jump in time. There are workarounds for everything. We aren't Hollywood directors with focus pullers and tape measures, sometimes we just have make do with what we have and figure out a way to work around it. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted June 13, 2017 Super Members Share Posted June 13, 2017 30 minutes ago, jonpais said: I've avoided buying variable ND filters up till now, thinking they degrade the image more than single value NDs, but I want to do more walk n talk videos where the light is always changing, and I'm thinking a fader (or adjustable) filter might be the answer. Continually changing the aperture during a shoot is not only disruptive, it also means moving the camera, whereas perhaps lightly turning the ND would be smoother. Not really sure, I've never owned a fader ND, and I haven't heard back from anyone on this yet. Its definitely smoother but its still disruptive as you've got hands on to do the turning, which sounds like it would be a big issue for the application you're talking about. Depending on the filter there is also colour shift issues to be considered but its one of those things where there are plenty of reviews online so you you should be able to find one that suffers less from this. The version Aputure do of their Lens Regain with variable electronic ND looks like a great solution but it comes at a price at around $700. One potential way of giving you a different solution would be for you to lock your exposure put a fixed ND on which is strong enough for the brightest zone and and then ride the ISO for those exposure changes to effectively counteract it for darker zones. Unless you go too mad, there is enough wiggle room with ISO on most cameras to tolerate that without destroying the image. It will still be stepped so not as smooth as a variable ND but at least you know you won't be getting colour shifts etc. I know exactly the person that could offer you a small handheld solution to do that wirelessly .... If you look at this video from my controller yesterday, you can at least get an idea of how riding the ISO (or the aperture or shutter speed actually) would look. As I say, its stepped so nowhere near as smooth as a variable ND but its not too bad (and could be smoothed further quite easily in post). Ignore the fact its running on a gamepad type controller as that sort of function can easily just be put on a tiny controller with a few buttons on to do what you want. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbp Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 35 minutes ago, jonpais said: I've avoided buying variable ND filters up till now, thinking they degrade the image more than single value NDs, but I want to do more walk n talk videos where the light is always changing, and I'm thinking a fader (or adjustable) filter might be the answer. Continually changing the aperture during a shoot is not only disruptive, it also means moving the camera, whereas perhaps lightly turning the ND would be smoother. Not really sure, I've never owned a fader ND, and I haven't heard back from anyone on this yet. I could also always cut out small sections if they're a bit shaky. Check out the SLR-Magic Vari-ND Mk II. For some reason it seems to fly under the radar, but it's fantastic. No sharpness hits or color casts, and it has a locking ring so that you can rotate the filter around to adjust for polarization. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 hour ago, dbp said: Check out the SLR-Magic Vari-ND Mk II. For some reason it seems to fly under the radar, but it's fantastic. No sharpness hits or color casts, and it has a locking ring so that you can rotate the filter around to adjust for polarization. That SLR Magic looks like a great option. I think there are special deals for them and a lens too. Great deal if someone is looking for a new lens and a variable nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 hours ago, jonpais said: There really are no hard and fast rules for anything, be it exposure, shutter speeds, stabilization and so on. I would think, however, that if you're shooting aperture priority, the shutter speed would constantly be changing, as would the smoothness or jitteriness of a shot (depending on the shutter angle), from the beginning to the end of each clip, as far as I understand it. So that couldn't be a desirable thing. I suppose if the subject were completely immobile, it wouldn't be a big deal. Edit: I did try shooting at higher shutter speeds twice in my life, once of some fancy motorbikes sitting outside a restaurant here, and again during my field test of the Olympus 75mm f/1.8, and I found the stuttering motion to be pretty disturbing. Dear Jon, yes, scenario is the main criteria, be that climatic, experimentally motivated or commercial ones f.i. I don´t think it is ETTR what you are doing. I think it is getting the maximal amount of light before the nasties are appearing, in order to avoid noise, in order to get the maximum potential and not always immediately visible visual information. With RAW it is supposed to be ETTR big time. Taking pictures with my GF1, even in RAW, it is a no go. But exposing as much as possible is still desirable regarding quality of the signal. I think, it is that what you are aiming for. And sometimes that can be -1/2 dialed into the camera, because sometimes camera meters are different than others. In my bright sunlight scenario with huge dynamic range and plentyful light to feed the sensor, the risk of noise was much lower than the huge risk of nastily overexposed mess. That mess could have never been rescued afterwards, not technically nor in any pleasing visual manner at all. For the jerky movement with auto shutter, I can see it very often too. Just check my bicycle video, if you like for stuttery motion because of that. I filmed a little exercise two weeks ago, with auto shutter, -2/3, in softer GX85 HD and by accident with gruesome ISO 1250. But it turned out kinda pretty, because amount and even more the quality of natural light was beautiful. Regarding color shifts, that is even a thing one can try in Resolve. Pure white can expose nasty greyish purple if pulled down in post. So for filming or acquiring material, it sure will show how we expose. And getting the curves right in Resolve can be a tricky one too, sometimes a lucky one. Once I graded one of your G81 videos and it turned out awesome, because you had captured great quality light. Event though I dled it from youtube. In Glenns videos I never noticed stutter, neither in Jase´s. Only in mine, which is not fair! So I usually prefer to stick to a fixed shutter. I actually recognize stutter and jittery motion, with anything that doesnt involve faces. And on my HDMI monitor I can see the jagginess, I wasnt able to see on the VGA I have been using until only a few months ago. Tilts and Pans sometimes look terrible. It´s quiet an art to do handheld with these Panny photo cams. Was amazed @mercers videos because his camera movement always looked stunning. I wish you all happy shooting and experimenting. jonpais, mercer, jase and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buggz Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 On 6/8/2017 at 4:12 AM, Stab said: I can lower the microphone levels by -10. This is still way too loud for the music during parties. When I put the limiter as well, then it is usually just fine. Still some small distortion here and there. With the GH3 and GH4, I could just leave the mic at -20 and lower the input levels, or even take the microphone out and record with the onboard mics. I remember I put the GH3 at -8 during loud music events and it was fine. Now with the GH5, it is recording so loud at -12 that I almost can't make out anymore which song has been recorded. Just a massive track full of distortion. I am now wondering if the GH5 audio levels are "tuned" to use the Panasonic GH5 external audio adapter? The biggest part of the GH5 external audio adapter is the hot shoe mount, not appealing to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, buggz said: I am now wondering if the GH5 audio levels are "tuned" to use the Panasonic GH5 external audio adapter? The biggest part of the GH5 external audio adapter is the hot shoe mount, not appealing to me... Just so you know, I'm joking here - but that would be a brilliant ploy to force buyers to purchase the $400.00 DMW XLR1 XLR adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinad Amir Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Adobe has realesed update for Gh5 files 10bit finally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 yeah finally! https://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/premiere-pro-11-1-2-available-today-ciritical-update-highly-recommended/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stab Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 A short comedy film with the GH5. Very heavy grading, but still holds up very good IMO. ntblowz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buggz Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 20 hours ago, jonpais said: Just so you know, I'm joking here - but that would be a brilliant ploy to force buyers to purchase the $400.00 DMW XLR1 XLR adapter. Haha, you got it, I didn't really know how to word it, without saying it. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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