Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, kye said:

There's a bunch of plugins with the free version and a whole bunch more with the paid one. Plus everything that's in Fusion which seems to be enormously complicated and thorough.

Yeah you aren't going to have an average IQ of 100  give or take 5 points like the average people on here according to @fuzzynormal and figure out Fusion LoL. ?

[TurboRat]

On 1/13/2019 at 2:25 PM, drm said:

Given the extreme low light nature of your upcoming shoot, I suggest that you rent one of the Sony cameras, like the A7SII or an A7III with 2.8 or better lenses. The Sony cameras seem to be around two stops better in low light performance, vs. my GH5s. If you can only use the GH5, you absolutely must use some very fast prime lenses. I have the Sigma 16mm / f1.4, Sigma 30mm / f1.4, Voigtlander Nokton 25mm f/0.95, Panasonic Leica DG Nocticron 42.5mm f/1.2,  and Sigma 18-35 f1.8, among others. Any of these lenses would be a good choice for your project. In my opinion, the GH5 with an f2.8 lens will not be good enough for your project.

Best of luck on your project!

Yeah the Full Frame cameras are better in Low Light. What do you think are the advantages of GH5s aside from the flip screen and the small lenses?

A7III has ibis though (not as good as GH5) so I think that's a better choice

[Shirozina]

Both Neat image and Resolve Studio NR is very good for cleaning up high iso and slightly under exposed footage but it can't fix seriously underexposed footage which is what the OP will get with the GH5 + 12-60 in a very low light environment.

[kye]

2 hours ago, TurboRat said:

Yeah the Full Frame cameras are better in Low Light. What do you think are the advantages of GH5s aside from the flip screen and the small lenses?

A7III has ibis though (not as good as GH5) so I think that's a better choice

10-bit is a pretty big advantage of the GH5 over the Sonys.

[Shirozina]

1 hour ago, kye said:

10-bit is a pretty big advantage of the GH5 over the Sonys.

Especially if you have to rescue very underexposed footage

[Towd]

 

9 hours ago, TurboRat said:

Yeah the Full Frame cameras are better in Low Light. What do you think are the advantages of GH5s aside from the flip screen and the small lenses?

A7III has ibis though (not as good as GH5) so I think that's a better choice

5 hours ago, kye said:

10-bit is a pretty big advantage of the GH5 over the Sonys.

The GH5 and GH5s typically give less heat and more reliable operation than the Sonys.  There's also longer battery life, less rolling shutter, and more high speed frame rates combined with better data rates and codecs.

[Orangenz]

On 1/14/2019 at 10:45 PM, FoxAdriano said:

Ok, thanks. Out of curiosity: if I use Resolve, is there an integrated filter like Neat Video so that I can do without buying the plugins for Edius 9?

My suspicion is that it *is* neat video and also that the stabilizer *is* mercalli and the deflicker *is* flickerfree. All I can say is that I was quite worried about losing my plugins when swapping to Resolve and found out that it had all the same functionality built in. Very very similar functionality  

[drm]

On 1/15/2019 at 12:34 AM, TurboRat said:

Yeah the Full Frame cameras are better in Low Light. What do you think are the advantages of GH5s aside from the flip screen and the small lenses?

A7III has ibis though (not as good as GH5) so I think that's a better choice

In my opinion, the GH5 & the GH5s are fantastic cameras. They have been bulletproof for me in well over a hundred events. The GH5s is substantially better than the GH5 in terms of low light performance, but you lose the IBIS from the GH5. I seldom (almost never) use the continuous autofocus in my work, but the one touch autofocus is very fast and works very well. I usually leave the cameras on manual focus, but I do use the one touch AF fairly regularly during shoots and it works well for me. I did notice a nice improvement in the continuous AF in the last firmware update, but I still don't use it very much. My understanding is that the Sony AF is almost magic pixie dust levels of amazing and clearly better than the Panasonic, which I consider to be usable, but not amazing. I really appreciate the 10 bit quality and the wide selection of fast lenses in these cameras. My 12-35 2.8 stays on these cameras *a lot* and produces great results.

For that candle lit project, I would take a GH5s with the Sigma 1.4 primes (or fast Panasonic primes) and a gimbal. I would also think the Sony A7III with some fast lenses would work well.

I think that the GH5 with a 12-60 lens would produce very poor results in that environment. I mean, it will be better than your cellphone, but probably not up to professional standards

 

[GreekBeast]

On 1/15/2019 at 7:34 AM, TurboRat said:

Yeah the Full Frame cameras are better in Low Light. What do you think are the advantages of GH5s aside from the flip screen and the small lenses?

A7III has ibis though (not as good as GH5) so I think that's a better choice

A7III Pros:

- better autofocus
- better low-light
- better dynamic range
- lighter body
- larger full-frame sensor(for shallower DOF)


GH5 Pros:

- 10bit 4:2:2 codecs
- ALL-I codecs
- 4k DCI
- anamorphic modes (open gate 5k)
- anamorphic de-squeeze
- load 4 custom luts for v-log l preview
- better IBIS
- lighter lenses
- 4k 60fps
- 1080 180fps
- variable frame rates
- waveform & vectorscope
- smaller m4/3 sensor (deeper DOF for same aperture)
- full-size HDMI port
- syncro scan
- less rolling shutter
- fully articulating touchscreen

17 hours ago, drm said:

I think that the GH5 with a 12-60 lens would produce very poor results in that environment. I mean, it will be better than your cellphone, but probably not up to professional standards

- Lots of factors here and m43 can do a lot with DOF as well. m43 can use a focal reducer which makes it more like a APS-C sensor size in terms of DOF. You are now only one stop away from the same DOF as FF. Shoot f4 comfortably on FF? Well f2.8 is pretty easy to get on m43 even with zoom lenses and can easily match the DOF of FF. This is again such a non issue unless you insist on having razor thin DOF from FF by shooting 50mm f1.2. Optically not the best solution and almost impossible to focus with for serious production work where clients pay you. It honestly only takes a sliver of extra effort to achieve similar DOF on m43. Can't replicate every situation but the importance is much less significant than you think it is. Plus very few Hollywood movies actually use that shallow of DOF. They shoot s35mm (close to APS-C size) and not FF and they tend to stop down their lenses to f4 or f5.6. Extremely easy to match that on m43 and even easier once you add a Speedbooster which essentially makes the GH5 an exact match to s35mm size sensors. On the GH5s using a Speedbooster XL gets you around a 1.2x crop which is half way between APS-C and FF so not a huge difference in terms of DOF.

On 1/15/2019 at 4:40 PM, Towd said:

The GH5 and GH5s typically give less heat and more reliable operation than the Sonys.  There's also longer battery life, less rolling shutter, and more high speed frame rates combined with better data rates and codecs.

The exelent IBIS, strong codec, robust build quality, great film maker ergonomics, 40k 60p and full size HDMI makes it feel like a more profesional camera then the whole a7 serie.
I owned both but choose to keep the GH5 and sell the A7s. Also used the A7s MII allot.
I sometimes miss the full frame aspect, but not to much. I don't miss any DR since I think the Slog3 and Slog2 is unusable in the A7 serie for the weak codec.
So I actually feel the GH5 has more DR since the robust codec let's you play around with the levels better.

[kye]

11 hours ago, GreekBeast said:

- Lots of factors here and m43 can do a lot with DOF as well. m43 can use a focal reducer which makes it more like a APS-C sensor size in terms of DOF. You are now only one stop away from the same DOF as FF. Shoot f4 comfortably on FF? Well f2.8 is pretty easy to get on m43 even with zoom lenses and can easily match the DOF of FF. This is again such a non issue unless you insist on having razor thin DOF from FF by shooting 50mm f1.2. Optically not the best solution and almost impossible to focus with for serious production work where clients pay you. It honestly only takes a sliver of extra effort to achieve similar DOF on m43. Can't replicate every situation but the importance is much less significant than you think it is. Plus very few Hollywood movies actually use that shallow of DOF. They shoot s35mm (close to APS-C size) and not FF and they tend to stop down their lenses to f4 or f5.6. Extremely easy to match that on m43 and even easier once you add a Speedbooster which essentially makes the GH5 an exact match to s35mm size sensors. On the GH5s using a Speedbooster XL gets you around a 1.2x crop which is half way between APS-C and FF so not a huge difference in terms of DOF.

Much of what you say makes sense, but I disagree with some of it.

Are you aware that shooting the 12-35 f2.8 at 25mm f2.8 isn't the same as shooting a 50mm f2.8 on FF?  25mm f2.8 on MFT is the same as 50mm f5.6 on FF.  To get the same DOF on MFT as you get from FF 50mm f1.2 would require something like 25mm f0.6, which I don't think even exists.  
This is a handy tool for comparing equivalent focal lengths and apertures: https://mmcalc.com
This is a handy tool for comparing DOF: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

I also disagree that f2.8 on MFT will be enough light.

Late last year I did a couple of trips with my GH5, shooting in ambient light conditions, sometimes at night (eg, streetlights and shop windows), with my Voigtlander 17.5mm 0.95, and I found two things: f0.95 was needed to reduce noise in the image, and f0.95 wasn't as crazy shallow DOF as you'd think.

This is an image I have shared previously, and I think you would agree that it's not a crazy shallow DOF shot - but this was absolutely at f0.95.

In terms of what the OP needs to film a building at night with tall ceilings only lit by candles, is probably more than what I needed when filming my family in being lit by street-lights, shop windows, and Christmas lights.

I don't know if the GH5 with fast lenses will even be enough - they might shoot it and be left with a very noisy image that suffers in quality after sufficient noise-reduction has been applied.  If they want to get any shots where their lenses aren't fully open then they're in trouble with the GH5 too, although how many of these shots they'd need is dependent on the situation and their shooting style.  At least with the A7Sii they'd have some wiggle-room in between having too shallow DOF and having too much noise in the final image.  

It's an extreme recommendation to make, but it's an extreme situation too. 

[anonim]

Somewhere about 6:00 there is test with candle lights

 

[GreekBeast]

2 hours ago, kye said:

Are you aware that shooting the 12-35 f2.8 at 25mm f2.8 isn't the same as shooting a 50mm f2.8 on FF?  25mm f2.8 on MFT is the same as 50mm f5.6 on FF.  To get the same DOF on MFT as you get from FF 50mm f1.2 would require something like 25mm f0.6, which I don't think even exists.  

Of course it's not, i just said it's easy to find f2.8 lenses that matches the f4 of ff which is still 'okish' dof. What really makes the GH5 specifically useful to me are two lenses that after trying different things are now keepers:
Olympus pro 17mm f1.2 and the 45mm f1.2 combined with Ibis and the full manual focus on the lenses make it a everyday tool on every production. I keep a 35mm 1.4 Glied to the eva1 and have a wide and portrait equivalent of 35mm f2.4 and a 90mm 2.4 in FF terms but with 1.2 light gathering. All together a very good package.

[kye]

37 minutes ago, GreekBeast said:

Of course it's not, i just said it's easy to find f2.8 lenses that matches the f4 of ff which is still 'okish' dof. What really makes the GH5 specifically useful to me are two lenses that after trying different things are now keepers:
Olympus pro 17mm f1.2 and the 45mm f1.2 combined with Ibis and the full manual focus on the lenses make it a everyday tool on every production. I keep a 35mm 1.4 Glied to the eva1 and have a wide and portrait equivalent of 35mm f2.4 and a 90mm 2.4 in FF terms but with 1.2 light gathering. All together a very good package.

Cool.  Sadly, there are a lot of people running around thinking the 12-35 f2.8 is the same as a 24-70 f2.8 Canon L lens.

I run my GH5 with the Voigtlander 17.5mm f0.95 on by default, an SLR Magic 8mm f4 for getting those 'wow' landscapes or interior shots, and am still working out my options for the 80-120mm equivalent length (in the running are a few 50/55/58mm lenses from Minolta, Pentax, and Helios), and also the options for sports lenses.

On my trip I used the 17.5mm maybe 80% of the time, the 8mm maybe 10% and the 58mm the other 10% of the time.  The right trio of lenses and you're ready to just work and get shots, it's great when the gear gets out of the way like that.

[Cinegain]

Is that a GH5?

I suppose so, right? The Grand Tour is back on Amazon Prime. Car shows like it have always shown love for Lumix cameras!

Interesting it's not the GH5S (I think). That one was supposed to cater to this scene since GH4 IBIS wasn't up to their needs and they'd prefer to rig the cameras up, rather than to rely on IBIS. Was the GH5S out when they started filming? Maybe not. That's such a shame about the show, takes 'em forever and then they're kind of behind on all actuality.

[webrunner5]

Isn't there someone on here at times that actually works on that show?

[TurboRat]

On 1/19/2019 at 9:16 AM, webrunner5 said:

Isn't there someone on here at times that actually works on that show?

I remember seeing one explain their setup on the dvxuser foum

[dr_jon]

On 1/10/2019 at 11:07 PM, FoxAdriano said:

Hello, the next months I will go to make a short documentary in the Coptic churches with poor light.The churches at night lit up little more than with candlelight of many faithful. Can anyone advise me how to configure the GH5 to get a good video inside the churches? I have the Leica 12-60mm f / 2.8 lens.
Outside I want to film in 50p but maybe inside it would be better to film in 25p to get more light. Quite right? Thank you.

Firstly if using the 12-60 Leica you'd want to keep to the wide end as the aperture falls rapidly...
2.8 - 12mm up to...
2.9 - 13mm
3.0 - 15mm
3.1 - 16mm
3.2 - 18mm
3.3 - 20mm
3.4 - 23mm (tested twice)
3.5 - 24mm (tested twice)
3.6 - 27mm
3.7 - 29mm
3.8 - 32mm
3.9 - 36mm
4.0 - 52mm

A brighter lens would be good but you need to check you get the DoF as it's no use if you don't have enough stuff in focus.

Also you can try a longer exposure. Rather than 180 degrees (so 1/50th for 25fps) try shooting up to 360 degrees (i.e. 1/25th) if really dark. Note not so good with much movement or panning. Oh and yes, 25 fps not 50.

I like to shoot in VLogL (which is a paid-for upgrade and needs practising before using, also setting a viewfinder LUT which is a built-in option) when it's dark as it gives me the most flexibility on setting the light level I want in editing and not falling off a cliff, but that's for when I don't want a "standard exposure" but want the scene to look somewhat dark. The in-viewfinder histogram can be useful (once moved to a corner).

If you want a zoom and don't mind manual focus you could consider using a f2.8 FF lens with a SpeedBooster, if you can rent them from somewhere (e.g. 16-35). Or just rent/buy a f1.2 (or faster) m43 lens. However you might find a Panasonic lens with OIS that supports Dual-IS2 is really useful (I tend to do that when hand-holding over a slightly faster lens with less good stabilisation).

Do note that wanting a dark scene to look somewhat dark, rather than fully lit, will help with noise etc.

Hope something there helps!

 

[Orangenz]

On 1/11/2019 at 12:07 PM, FoxAdriano said:

Hello, the next months I will go to make a short documentary in the Coptic churches with poor light.The churches at night lit up little more than with candlelight of many faithful. Can anyone advise me how to configure the GH5 to get a good video inside the churches? I have the Leica 12-60mm f / 2.8 lens.
Outside I want to film in 50p but maybe inside it would be better to film in 25p to get more light. Quite right? Thank you.

Mmm, the slowest I'd go for is the 25mm 1.4 or something like the Kamlan 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_O3drNt01Q I just think 2.8 is too slow for that described. If you're at 3200 iso it's a bit rough. Anyway, wider aperture with candles = bokeh balls! 

 

[webrunner5]

Well the 8K guy is back, alive and well. Interesting results.

 

[kye]

10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well the 8K guy is back, alive and well. Interesting results.

Interesting.  Not really surprising, but still good to see.

Discussions of sensor sizes is a fun one - anyone who thinks bigger is better should see the Large Format photography guys struggling to nail focus on their landscape detail shots because their depth of field is so ridiculously thin and stopping down sufficiently means diffraction and longer exposure times, both of which soften image sharpness as well.