Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[Skip77]

1 hour ago, Towd said:

Good color is subjective and a matter of opinion.  You can't jump through logic hoops while stating opinion as fact.  Also, I'm happy to debate cameras, but please leave out the personal attacks.  @kye is one of my favorite posters on this board and if his posts are not in the spirit of the board, I don't want to be here.

Personally, after shooting in 10 bit internal for a couple years, I think it's a requirement for  any camera in 2019.

If you have to slap an external monitor onto the camera to get 10 bit, then I think you'd be better served just getting a full video camera and rigging it out.  If hybrid is your thing, then again, I ask who wants to deal with an external monitor while shooting photos and video?

To me all the blustering about who has the best color is opinion and irrelevant unless the camera shoots 10 bit.  It's not that you can't get great results with 8 bit, the problem is the 1-2% of the shots where banding appears in the sky, or when you have to save a shot that wasn't exposed with perfect settings, or some extreme grading breaks the image, or a multitude of other gotchas where a save in post is necessary-- that's where 10 bit shines.  Raw adds even more flexibility because it opens up more extreme exposure and white balance adjustments in post.  

You can get great results in 8 bit, but a lot of the time pro cameras are about saving mistakes made on the set, or at a location that can't be easily repeated. 

 

...and until the Z6 actually shoots raw, its vaporware and irrelevant.  It's so tiresome to debate what camera will be best in the future after X spec is added...  ?

 

When did I personally attack @kye?

Here's a P4k lightly rigged out.  How is using the Atomos with the Z6 is any different then the rigged out P4K?  

If shooting photo's with the Z6 you DON"T USE THE ATOMOS. 

What part of two companies announcing 12 bit Raw will be coming in July makes you doubt that it will happen? It's not irrelevant it's just irrelevant to closed minded argumentative people. 

Again - I tried to give fed back to people who asked about the Z6 or were curious and to debunk the claims that it crushed black or that it doesn't have better color then Sony and the GH5. You must have missed goober claiming his opinion as fact about the Z6 was bad and the my video still was not from video but a photo taken from the camera.

And what video camera can you get for 2k that shoots 10 bit full frame 4k 30fps with no crop? (and will be able to shoot 12 bit Raw this summer.) Show me that full frame dedicated video camera with those spec and I'll take it.

Good color is not subjective. Were not talking about who has the best tan. Were talking about how the camera reproduces color. The only times it's subjective is when someone is defending the camera they purchased. 

If I had the money I would have bought the C200 over the Z6 or maybe the P4K if it was available.  

 

[Towd]

I don't know man.  You're in the GH5 thread arguing about the Z6 with features that aren't even out yet.  It'll be interesting to look at when it's available, but hypotheticals don't help with anything people want to shoot today.

1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

And what video camera can you get for 2k that shoots 10 bit full frame 4k 30fps with no crop?

A lot of people don't want to shoot full frame-- been there and done that.  It's a pain in the ass to keep everything in focus. Actors drift off a mark and blow a shot.  It requires more prep to get right, and more takes nail a shot.  In documentaries I find it distracting when the environment is too blown out into to mushy bokeh as well.  In my opinion, there's a nice level of defocus necessary to help direct the viewer's eye, but too much can be annoying.  Micro four thirds hits a great balance for that in my opinion and packs into a very small package.  If you need extreme bokeh in a scene, throw on a speed booster, long lens, or shoot with one of the many f.95 lenses out there.

I totally get why people want to do full frame shooting for some projects.  And it's certainly fun to experiment with different styles and looks. And I can even see why bloggers would want it since they often don't have interesting backgrounds and their style resembles the realm of portraiture with their self interested subject matter. 

But the GH5 fits all your requirements if you don't care about shooting Vista Vision...

In regards to the rig you posted, I might as well grab a Red camera and shoot with that.  Used ones are not even that expensive anymore.  Or grab a Z-Cam, or the black magic pocket you posted.  The point of the GH5 for my purposes is 10 bit log capture in a small camera body.  The only other camera I'm aware of that can do that is the X-T3 and it lacks internal stabilization. 

The conversation started because you came here posting that GH5 users were somehow misleading new buyers into buying an outdated system that wasn't as good as the Z6 or S1.  I'm saying it's still more than relevant today.  Different tools for different problems.  

[AlexTrinder96]

1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

And what video camera can you get for 2k that shoots 10 bit full frame 4k 30fps with no crop?

But the Z6 cannot shoot 10 bit internally. So it costs quite a bit more than 2k for that. 

[Skip77]

3 hours ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

But the Z6 cannot shoot 10 bit internally. So it costs quite a bit more than 2k for that. 

It's still under the S1 when you add the Atomos and you get 12 bit Raw.

3 hours ago, Towd said:

I don't know man.  You're in the GH5 thread arguing about the Z6 with features that aren't even out yet.  It'll be interesting to look at when it's available, but hypotheticals don't help with anything people want to shoot today.

A lot of people don't want to shoot full frame-- been there and done that.  It's a pain in the ass to keep everything in focus. Actors drift off a mark and blow a shot.  It requires more prep to get right, and more takes nail a shot.  In documentaries I find it distracting when the environment is too blown out into to mushy bokeh as well.  In my opinion, there's a nice level of defocus necessary to help direct the viewer's eye, but too much can be annoying.  Micro four thirds hits a great balance for that in my opinion and packs into a very small package.  If you need extreme bokeh in a scene, throw on a speed booster, long lens, or shoot with one of the many f.95 lenses out there.

I totally get why people want to do full frame shooting for some projects.  And it's certainly fun to experiment with different styles and looks. And I can even see why bloggers would want it since they often don't have interesting backgrounds and their style resembles the realm of portraiture with their self interested subject matter. 

But the GH5 fits all your requirements if you don't care about shooting Vista Vision...

In regards to the rig you posted, I might as well grab a Red camera and shoot with that.  Used ones are not even that expensive anymore.  Or grab a Z-Cam, or the black magic pocket you posted.  The point of the GH5 for my purposes is 10 bit log capture in a small camera body.  The only other camera I'm aware of that can do that is the X-T3 and it lacks internal stabilization. 

The conversation started because you came here posting that GH5 users were somehow misleading new buyers into buying an outdated system that wasn't as good as the Z6 or S1.  I'm saying it's still more than relevant today.  Different tools for different problems.  

I mentioned color and the GH5 brother and you should visit the Z6 thread and see how many GH5 comments get tossed around. So I figure the rules are the same for each thread. 

What are you talking about with full frame? You adjust your aperture and depth of field.  

3 hours ago, Towd said:

In regards to the rig you posted, I might as well grab a Red camera and shoot with that.  Used ones are not even that expensive anymore.  Or grab a Z-Cam, or the black magic pocket you posted.  The point of the GH5 for my purposes is 10 bit log capture in a small camera body.  The only other camera I'm aware of that can do that is the X-T3 and it lacks internal stabilization. 

The rig picture was that of a BMP4K that has been mentioned and as the Z6 with Atomos was called out I posted that rig picture to show how insane the comments were getting about having to rig up the Z6 with an external monitor for 10 -12 Raw. 

3 hours ago, Towd said:

The conversation started because you came here posting that GH5 users were somehow misleading new buyers into buying an outdated system that wasn't as good as the Z6 or S1.  I'm saying it's still more than relevant today.  Different tools for different problems.  

The GH5 is a good camera and if you follow comments about the S1 compared to the GH5 you'll which one has better image quality, and better color. The GH5 is relevant today but to a person investing into the m4/3 system and the GH5 over the S1, Z6 or P4K, it seems like that person has better option that produce better result and is a little more future proof. 

[kye]

1 minute ago, Skip77 said:

It's still under the S1 when you add the Atomos and you get 12 bit Raw.

Morning!  I see you've all been busy while I was sleeping

There issue here is that there isn't such a thing as a 'better' camera, only "better for ...... situation"
The S1 might have colours that please you better, the Z6 might have menus that someone likes more, sure, and these days there are no more bad cameras, I'm sure the S1 and the Z6 are just lovely.  But it depends on what your situation is - for the person with m43 glass the GH5 is better than the S1 (or an Alexa for that matter), for the person who has very little HDD space and only needs 1080 the c100 might be hard to beat, and for the person who shoots underwater or in action sports a GoPro is a pretty good option.  Hell, for the person that wants 240fps an iPhone kills basically everything else because not much else can do it.

If we make some assumptions about what you're trying to say, and we assume that the person: 1) has no lens collection, 2) has $5K or whatever for a new setup, 3) values the colour straight-out of the camera or with very light grading, 4) has the time and hardware for RAW and high-bitrate codecs, 5) assuming that what is announced actually gets delivered on, and 6) a future camera with a different lens mount doesn't come along that will significantly beat their choice, THEN maybe the S1 or the Z6 might be the best options for that person.  You may be right - those cameras are probably the best current option for many many people. 

The problem is that any of the things that I listed as assumptions may not apply to the person out there that you are trying to save from online treachery.  If that person has a lens collection already then that skews it for mounts that are compatible or can be adapted (if that's ok for that person).  If they don't have a setup but don't have the $5K+ for a new setup required then maybe a lesser camera with a cheaper / more available ecosystem might be better.  If you don't mind about colour straight-out of the camera, or can grade, then practically any 10-bit camera will be good.  If you're looking for Alexa colours then the GHAlex LUTs from Sage are a real plus for the GH5 right now.  If they don't have the time or heavy footprint of RAW then they'll be wanting something that shoots the quality / bitrate compromise at their optimal point.  Lots of people shoot in a regular profile and get things right in-camera so they don't have to grade at all, this is mainly for speed in post-production, which is a big deal for people on tight timeframes.  If you're looking for the best camera and the S1 is better than the GH5 and you go all-in for that, then you're at risk of the GH6 making you regret your decision.  No-one can predict the future, but if I was in the market right now, even if I didn't have any m43 glass, the system still looks like it might be more attractive because of its history, although FF third party lenses are starting to fill out like they did for the m43 system over the last years.

Until we get a camera that's perfect for everyone, people will still have unique requirements that mean they prioritise factors differently to others, and therefore buy differently.

[AlexTrinder96]

45 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

It's still under the S1 when you add the Atomos and you get 12 bit Raw.

Again...

We don't even have a release date for the Raw update.

[Skip77]

41 minutes ago, kye said:

Morning!  I see you've all been busy while I was sleeping

There issue here is that there isn't such a thing as a 'better' camera, only "better for ...... situation"
The S1 might have colours that please you better, the Z6 might have menus that someone likes more, sure, and these days there are no more bad cameras, I'm sure the S1 and the Z6 are just lovely.  But it depends on what your situation is - for the person with m43 glass the GH5 is better than the S1 (or an Alexa for that matter), for the person who has very little HDD space and only needs 1080 the c100 might be hard to beat, and for the person who shoots underwater or in action sports a GoPro is a pretty good option.  Hell, for the person that wants 240fps an iPhone kills basically everything else because not much else can do it.

If we make some assumptions about what you're trying to say, and we assume that the person: 1) has no lens collection, 2) has $5K or whatever for a new setup, 3) values the colour straight-out of the camera or with very light grading, 4) has the time and hardware for RAW and high-bitrate codecs, 5) assuming that what is announced actually gets delivered on, and 6) a future camera with a different lens mount doesn't come along that will significantly beat their choice, THEN maybe the S1 or the Z6 might be the best options for that person.  You may be right - those cameras are probably the best current option for many many people. 

The problem is that any of the things that I listed as assumptions may not apply to the person out there that you are trying to save from online treachery.  If that person has a lens collection already then that skews it for mounts that are compatible or can be adapted (if that's ok for that person).  If they don't have a setup but don't have the $5K+ for a new setup required then maybe a lesser camera with a cheaper / more available ecosystem might be better.  If you don't mind about colour straight-out of the camera, or can grade, then practically any 10-bit camera will be good.  If you're looking for Alexa colours then the GHAlex LUTs from Sage are a real plus for the GH5 right now.  If they don't have the time or heavy footprint of RAW then they'll be wanting something that shoots the quality / bitrate compromise at their optimal point.  Lots of people shoot in a regular profile and get things right in-camera so they don't have to grade at all, this is mainly for speed in post-production, which is a big deal for people on tight timeframes.  If you're looking for the best camera and the S1 is better than the GH5 and you go all-in for that, then you're at risk of the GH6 making you regret your decision.  No-one can predict the future, but if I was in the market right now, even if I didn't have any m43 glass, the system still looks like it might be more attractive because of its history, although FF third party lenses are starting to fill out like they did for the m43 system over the last years.

Until we get a camera that's perfect for everyone, people will still have unique requirements that mean they prioritise factors differently to others, and therefore buy differently.

No one was talking about m4/3 glass and what the next camera they should purchase. If all the GH5 owners are waiting on the Gh6 then that makes sense and I would do the same except if I had a GH5, like my G7, I would have already figured out that the 4/3 sensor is not even super35 size and I would have already done my research that told me Hollywood cinematographers are moving toward full frame sensors and glass. I think most Gh5 owners know the faults of the camera and what the S1 and Z6 do better already so no need for me to call it out. The GH5 is just not the camera I would recommend for anyone looking to upgrade.

28 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

Again...

We don't even have a release date for the Raw update.

Yes we do the release date is in July.

[buggz]

Wow, this one got a bit polluted, bummer deal...

[AlexTrinder96]

19 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Yes we do the release date is in July.

Have you got a link for that? Cheers 

[anonim]

34 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

 If all the GH5 owners are waiting on the Gh6 then that makes sense and I would do the same except if I had a GH5, like my G7, I would have already figured out that the 4/3 sensor is not even super35 size and I would have already done my research that told me and glass. I think most Gh5 owners know the faults of the camera and what the S1 and Z6 do better already so no need for me to call it out. The GH5 is just not the camera I would recommend for anyone looking to upgrade.

 

Hi, I'm curious: if I, after reading remarks to @Kye's post made after his awakening, confirm that 4/3 sensor is not even super35 size and that Hollywood cinematographers are moving toward full frame sensors - so consequently Z6 and S1 are more recommendable camera than GH5 - would you disagree in something with me?

[webrunner5]

9 hours ago, Skip77 said:

Give your take on the last video I posted, the one that you thought was a photo and not from video? Again, if the Gh5s can go head to head with the P4K then based on my comparison of the Z6 to the FS7, and C200, I know it will stack up well against the P4K. 

You said the Z6 can't come close to the P4k in video? Why not? Give us you great take based on my footage and your knowledge. I also said Z6 12 bit Raw against the P4K. 

I've hired old school guys like you that think the 10 year old cam corder is still relevant and that you can't bridge the gap between cine cameras and mirrorless cameras. 

I know for a fact that the Z6 compares well next to the C200 because we shot with both at the same location. 

Because old guys can make shit happen even with old stuff. It is not cameras, it is skill. You act like they just F ing invented video cameras last week. ENG cameras, even old ass ENG cameras All shoot 12 or 14bit 4.4.4. Even a old Sony F3 can do that with the upgrade in it. That is pure color.

You keep talking 12 bit Raw. It is not even out yet in the Z6, Z7. bRaw Is 12 bit already And they are 10 bit in regular old ProRes. You can't do 10 bit or even Log without a Recorder on the Nikons. BMD cameras just have Way better CS than any Nikon has out of the box for video. They make Cine cameras, not Hybrids. 

And Nobody in their right mind is going to use a Z6 as a B cam to a C200 unless it is some broke ass people, get real. That is Hillbilly shit. You might as well just whip out your Smartphone, or run down and get a EOS T2i for 150 bucks from a Pawn Shop that would match better.

[Skip77]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Because old guys can make shit happen even with old stuff. It is not cameras, it is skill. You act like they just F ing invented video cameras last week. ENG cameras, even old ass ENG cameras All shoot 12 or 14bit 4.4.4. Even a old Sony F3 can do that with the upgrade in it. That is pure color.

You keep talking 12 bit Raw. It is not even out yet in the Z6, Z7. bRaw Is 12 bit already And they are 10 bit in regular old ProRes. You can't do 10 bit or even Log without a Recorder on the Nikons. BMD cameras just have Way better CS than any Nikon has out of the box for video. They make Cine cameras, not Hybrids. 

And Nobody in their right mind is going to use a Z6 as a B cam to a C200 unless it is some broke ass people, get real. That is Hillbilly shit. You might as well just whip out your Smartphone, or run down and get a EOS T2i for 150 bucks from a Pawn Shop that would match better.

You also can't talk trash about a video still that you called out to be a photo taken from the camera.

All I know is 12-bit Raw is coming for the Z6 and when it does I'll be posting in the Raw camera section. At that point no more Gh5 talk. Lol.

[webrunner5]

Good, and MAYBE you can post it in the Nikon Z6 forum. I have never used a JPEG as frame grab, but then you Are different I guess.

[Skip77]

18 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Good, and MAYBE you can post it in the Nikon Z6 forum. I have never used a JPEG as frame grab, but then you Are different I guess.

Digital images are JPEG, PNG or GIF's in the digital world. Mac screen captures are PNG and a JPEG from Nikon cameras will have metadata showing the camera, date, etc.

I'm trying to see your point and that it wasn't based on quality of the JPEG vs expected video quality.  FCPX lets you save out an image from the timeline.  And I'm sure Resolve let's you do the same. 

[anonim]

16 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

 It is not even half as good as the footage I showed from the OG BMPCC with a piss ass little s16mm sensor.

One of the most beautiful and skillful cinematography I saw in last 10 years belongs to "Lore" by Cate Shortland director and Adam Arkapaw as dop... they used exclusively s16 in it. I'd dare to recommend that movie to everybody who yet didn't see it - at least just to take one breath relaxation/inspiration from hard battle of sensor's size/capability fascination.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1996310/

[kye]

33 minutes ago, anonim said:

One of the most beautiful and skillful cinematography I saw in last 10 years belongs to "Lore" by Cate Shortland director and Adam Arkapaw as dop... they used exclusively s16 in it. I'd dare to recommend that movie to everybody who yet doesn't see it - at least just to take one breath relaxation/inspiration from hard battle of sensor's size/capability fascination.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1996310/

There are many things that really define what a camera setup is capable of..   DR, 8/10/12bit, lenses, filters, etc, but sensor size isn't one of them.  

[anonim]

1 hour ago, kye said:

There are many things that really define what a camera setup is capable of..   DR, 8/10/12bit, lenses, filters, etc, but sensor size isn't one of them.  

Yes, words saying that size actually doesn't matter but DR consoled me through all my life

[anonim]

 

[dbp]

I'm way late to the party, but just ordered the GH5! 

I have no illusions that it'll be some supremely groundbreaking image, but I do think it'll be the funnest and easiest camera I've ever used to just pick up and shoot stuff with.

[thebrothersthre3]

1 hour ago, dbp said:

I'm way late to the party, but just ordered the GH5! 

I have no illusions that it'll be some supremely groundbreaking image, but I do think it'll be the funnest and easiest camera I've ever used to just pick up and shoot stuff with.

It has a great image btw. Pretty much no moire or aliasing which can't be said for a lot of more expensive cameras. Also internal 10 bit 422