Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[Video Hummus]

19 hours ago, Towd said:

Yeah, people completely blow out of proportion the noise on the GH5.  With some minimal work in post it cleans up really nicely-- especially if you are delivering in 2k it's just a non-issue.

I think a lot of reviewers just discount it to avoid trolls who might discredit their standards.  None of these people I think have ever worked with film or the early generation digital cinema cameras that were noisy as hell.

I find this is more true with video than still photography. They are viewed differently. In a lot of cases the motion can help mask the noise problem to a point. With photos I find I’m generally looking around the photo for a longer period and will notice those noise details.

1 minute ago, dbp said:

Wow, that low light performance is really something. the GH5s really does open up possibilities of using different lenses in situations I would never have been able to get away with before. It's definitely my no-brainer choice for a second body eventually.

I thought a lot about the BMPCC4K, but I'm just in no mood to deal with trade-offs and workarounds anymore. 

The GH series just works. If they ever get internal NDs in there, I feel like that's the final frontier. 

 

Totally agree. I think the single biggest feature Panasonic could add to the next GH camera is some sort of built in variable ND, electronic, or otherwise in a mirrorless ILC form factor.

If they can manage that and improve on the perceived weakness of poor ISO performance and low megapixels they will have a popular camera I think. I think most people that love and use the GH5 would logically upgrade to it since it solves some very common pain points. Please Panasonic, don’t be over zealous in protecting your cinema cameras. People buy those for different reasons.

[Towd]

10 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I have a GH5S, so no IBIS, and I just received my shiny new Pana-Leica 50-200mm f2.8-4. The OIS on this lens is pretty insane. I didn’t expect I could hand hold it at 200mm and get rock solid video of birds in flight. I deliberated between this lens and the Olympus 40-150 f2.8 but finally settled on the 50-200 because of the OIS. So glad I did.

I've been toying with an investment in that lens, the 100-400mm, or the fixed 200mm, so I'd love to hear more about your experience with it long term.  The 50-200mm definitely seems the most practical while the fixed 200mm is probably the least.

I've generally come to the conclusion that I'll be shooting Panasonic (GH series) and not Olympus long term, and so will probably favor Panasonic glass.  And Panasonic seems to include lens stabilization more often than Olympus.

10 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I find this is more true with video than still photography. They are viewed differently. In a lot of cases the motion can help mask the noise problem to a point. With photos I find I’m generally looking around the photo for a longer period and will notice those noise details.

Yeah, I was being overly harsh there to reviewers.  I think that trolls however love to find holes in a reviewer's conclusions, so the reviewers play it cautious.  I do enjoy the whistle clean image aesthetic that seems to be the growing trend in video.  With Neat Video or other degrainers however, it's very achievable to get a clean image even up to 3200 on the GH5-- but it will soften the image some, and of course you'll be losing some dynamic range.

That said, I love me some grainy 16mm scanned film.  Probably one of my favorite looks.

[kye]

4 hours ago, Towd said:

I've been toying with an investment in that lens, the 100-400mm, or the fixed 200mm, so I'd love to hear more about your experience with it long term.  The 50-200mm definitely seems the most practical while the fixed 200mm is probably the least.

What are you shooting?

I shoot my kids sports games (on a large field) on the GH5, vintage 135/2.8 and 200/4 lenses, and the largest gorillapod.  I bring a chair and use the gorillapod on my lap to hold the weight of the camera.  I normally set it up with one leg taking the weight, one leg as a handle scooped up so that I'm gripping that leg but also manually focusing, and the other leg floating horizontally to give a bit more inertia to stabilise panning motion.  I also use the viewfinder not the screen, but I'm wearing sunglasses so not really getting that much stabilising from the eyepiece.

I have found that 200mm is pretty long and I need to stabilise in post, but the IBIS does a great job all things considering.  If you're going longer than 200mm you'll want a very solid tripod.

I'd love a 50-200mm zoom, but I think I prefer two primes over the questionable quality of vintage zooms, and I definitely prefer the lenses I already own to the price tag on the Pana-Leica lens!!

 

[Towd]

31 minutes ago, kye said:

What are you shooting?

Oh, it's mostly just a for fun lens and way beyond practical.   I currently own a Nikon 75-300mm F/4.5-5.6.  It's a total shit lens-- on or off my speedbooster.  Tons of chromatic aberration and very soft.  I've had it for like 15 years, and it has never impressed.  My other telephoto that is much nicer is an Olympus 40-150mm F/4-5.6 that I picked up as my first native m43 lens when I bought my GH5-- on sale for $100 dollars US.  This is... no joke, a really decent lens for a plastic-fantastic bargain bin lens.  Puts the Nikon to shame, and it fits in a front pocket.  It's currently my only autofocus m43 lens, and does a half decent job for its size.

So yeah, I'm interested in a nice long tele for my growing micro four thirds passion.

 

 

 

[Video Hummus]

19 hours ago, Towd said:

I've been toying with an investment in that lens, the 100-400mm, or the fixed 200mm, so I'd love to hear more about your experience with it long term.  The 50-200mm definitely seems the most practical while the fixed 200mm is probably the least.

I consider the fixed 200 f2.8 even more of a specialized lens than the 50-200. I don’t have any hands on time with the 100-400 but I think that one only makes sense for people who enjoy shooting a lot of wildlife.

Where I’ve been impressed with this lens is the excellent built in OIS. Fast autofocus in video. It’s supremely sharp through the range. But what really makes it worth the price tag is the aperture has a gentle curve to f4 on the long end only reaching it at 150mm. It can get away with being a pretty decent portrait lens at 50mm and f2.8 in a pinch. The bokeh is pleasing and not nervous at all (something the Olympus 40-150 has IMHO).

Build quality is excellent. The lens hood is the only plastic that comes with it, which I don’t mind a bit. Less likely to bend or be dented in my bag.

It has a very excellent telephoto range versus compact size. Really the only downside so far has been the price. If you don’t need it now, I’m sure the price will go down a bit more. It’s an excellent lens all around and a great telephoto for my GH5S with the OIS. I think it perfectly maxes out the balance of size, weight, aperture, and focal length that m43 gives us. Any bigger and it would be silly on m43. But don’t get be wrong, it’s still insanely compact for a 400mm FF equivalent. It slides in my cargo pants pocket.

 I’m looking forward to shooting some fly fishing this summer.

[kye]

@Video Hummus damn, now I want one!

[Andy Zou]

So, what was the consensus here re: GH5S?  Worth it over the GH5?

Owned Gh4 since launch, the focus button at this point has had all its ink rubbed off, and the micro-HDMI port has taken a few tugs... but it's still going strong!

I could probably get rid of it for ~4-500, used GH5 on ebay is around 1100.  GH5S are 1700ish.

Often record Prores to external PIX-E5.  Mostly do web content, but wondering if jumping up to EVA1 or that bracket is worthwhile as well...

[webrunner5]

If you are just going for the best output for video I don't see how you can beat a PK4 for the money. If you want to take photos, shoot at a faster pace, well it probably is not a good option. I believe it would be a Huge upgrade output wise to your GH4.

[Video Hummus]

58 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

If you are just going for the best output for video I don't see how you can beat a PK4 for the money. If you want to take photos, shoot at a faster pace, well it probably is not a good option. I believe it would be a Huge upgrade output wise to your GH4.

Yeah, the P4K is a beast. Depends if you want ProRes and BRAW internal recording or need a weather sealed body and autofocus.

I use continuous autofocus with the GH5S during certain situations with good results.

I think if you don’t need weather sealing then the P4K is a better buy because it offers more features for the price. Panasonic needs to show the GH5S some love.

[thebrothersthre3]

7 hours ago, Andy Zou said:

So, what was the consensus here re: GH5S?  Worth it over the GH5?

Owned Gh4 since launch, the focus button at this point has had all its ink rubbed off, and the micro-HDMI port has taken a few tugs... but it's still going strong!

I could probably get rid of it for ~4-500, used GH5 on ebay is around 1100.  GH5S are 1700ish.

Often record Prores to external PIX-E5.  Mostly do web content, but wondering if jumping up to EVA1 or that bracket is worthwhile as well...

If you need the lowlight capabilities definitely. I think the GH5S sensor yields slightly nicer color. That said the GH5 captures more detail with its 6k sensor and of course you get IBIS if they is your thing.

I'd choose the Pocket 4k over either. But I am in love with prores and RAW output.

[kye]

16 hours ago, Andy Zou said:

So, what was the consensus here re: GH5S?  Worth it over the GH5?

Owned Gh4 since launch, the focus button at this point has had all its ink rubbed off, and the micro-HDMI port has taken a few tugs... but it's still going strong!

I could probably get rid of it for ~4-500, used GH5 on ebay is around 1100.  GH5S are 1700ish.

Often record Prores to external PIX-E5.  Mostly do web content, but wondering if jumping up to EVA1 or that bracket is worthwhile as well...

+1 for what @thebrothersthre3 said.

Think of them as different types of cameras.  That's why they sold them as part of the same range, the GH5s didn't replace the GH5.

[currensheldon]

On 5/1/2019 at 8:54 AM, Video Hummus said:

I find this is more true with video than still photography. They are viewed differently. In a lot of cases the motion can help mask the noise problem to a point. With photos I find I’m generally looking around the photo for a longer period and will notice those noise details.

Totally agree. I think the single biggest feature Panasonic could add to the next GH camera is some sort of built in variable ND, electronic, or otherwise in a mirrorless ILC form factor.

If they can manage that and improve on the perceived weakness of poor ISO performance and low megapixels they will have a popular camera I think. I think most people that love and use the GH5 would logically upgrade to it since it solves some very common pain points. Please Panasonic, don’t be over zealous in protecting your cinema cameras. People buy those for different reasons.

I think this is what it comes down to for the GH6 - Panasonic has to continue to offer first-evers (or best evers) in the GH-series for them to continue to do so well in an increasingly full-frame world. GH5 did it with 4K 60fps, 4K 10-bit internal, and the best IBIS in the game (by far).

Now, more than 2 years later, some have caught up and the GH5 low light ability is starting to show its age. Internal NDs and low light ability are the two biggest for me.

Basically, just stabilize the GH5s sensor, throw in internal NDs, and try to get the megapixel count up to 24-26. Full V-Log would also be huge. Some f0.95 or more F1.2 primes to go with the 10-25mm f1.7 coming out would also be great.  

[Andy Zou]

12 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

That said the GH5 captures more detail with its 6k sensor

So the downsampling on the GH5 from that sensor must be pretty alright then?

[thebrothersthre3]

2 hours ago, Andy Zou said:

So the downsampling on the GH5 from that sensor must be pretty alright then?

Yeah you can also shoot in 6k though you are limited to 24p.

[kye]

7 hours ago, Andy Zou said:

So the downsampling on the GH5 from that sensor must be pretty alright then?

It is.  The 6K mode is technically 5K but it's really nice..  it's 4:3 so you can re-frame in post, it's h265 200Mbit which is equivalent to about 400Mbps h264 in terms of IQ and the 200Mbps doesn't require the super-expensive UHSII SD cards so it's cheaper, it has less/no sharpening added and looks really nice IMHO.

[buggz]

17 minutes ago, kye said:

It is.  The 6K mode is technically 5K but it's really nice..  it's 4:3 so you can re-frame in post, it's h265 200Mbit which is equivalent to about 400Mbps h264 in terms of IQ and the 200Mbps doesn't require the super-expensive UHSII SD cards so it's cheaper, it has less/no sharpening added and looks really nice IMHO.

AND...

You can choose HLG.

Mine is always "stuck" in this mode.

Getting ready for my niece's chorus at the church tomorrow night...

 

[kye]

27 minutes ago, buggz said:

AND...

You can choose HLG.

Mine is always "stuck" in this mode.

Getting ready for my niece's chorus at the church tomorrow night...

Yes, HLG.  Too many advantages to remember all in one go!

Mine is also stuck in this mode.  C1 and C2 are both these settings except different pre-set focal lengths ???

[Andy Zou]

On 5/6/2019 at 7:56 PM, kye said:

Yes, HLG.  Too many advantages to remember all in one go!

Mine is also stuck in this mode.  C1 and C2 are both these settings except different pre-set focal lengths ???

This is better than using V-Log-L?

[thebrothersthre3]

11 hours ago, Andy Zou said:

This is better than using V-Log-L?

HLG has smoother tonal transitions. Some claim it has more dynamic range as well. 

From what I've seen its a bit harder to grade than Vlog. However you can always use a transform LUT like the Leeming Lut One. 

Its definitely a good option if you'd rather not pay for Vlog.

[Video Hummus]

I’m pretty sure Panasonic engineers have said HLG squeezes out a half stop more of dynamic range over V-LogL. I know HLG is not made to be a log capture profile but with something like the leeming lut that does a transform to Rec.709 you can have a solid base to work with and get some pretty impressive results out of HLG.