Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[jcs]

2 hours ago, Arikhan said:

I tend to trust a reputable pro filmmaker (Hurlbut) by far more than self proclaimed "experts" -.even if they scream very loud on internet. 

Shane's test was pretty fair and reflected what he looks for in a cinema camera: http://www.thehurlblog.com/cinematography-panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh4/

The most important thing he said was rent or test the camera for yourself after explaining his viewpoint. The GH4 can look cinematic- use a diffusion filter and do the necessary gamma and color tweaks in post to give a more film-like response, but that's extra work not required for an Alexa or C500 (or 5D3 RAW), for example. I think that's the big missing link in camera reviews is the amount of effort required to make a camera look filmic or skintones to look pleasing, and why there's so much variance in footage online. Canon and ARRI are popular because they require the least amount of work. The GH5 appears to be moving closer to being able to get straight out of the camera (SOOC) shots looking nice- that's good progress (log with a simple LUT is fair to call SOOC if no other grading is needed since that takes less than 1 second to apply).

[Cinegain]

3 minutes ago, Davey said:

The filmmaker did kick the arse out of them. 

Of course there's the 'J'adore tes transitions' in the comments, because you know, people are simple beings. But to me it's like people aren't inspired to find their own thing, they just copy what others do. It's not just the transitions... of course the video itself is a wink to/rip off from Phil Holland's 'Forged':.. it's like we're losing originality.

 

[Neumann Films]

Just digging into 6K Photo Mode files.  Shot with the SLR Magic 2x primes (jury is still out on them for me...lot's of character but they are slow and not very sharp wide open, so they get even slower).  No V-LogL is a bummer but it's not a deal breaker.  Pretty good option for anamorphic, IMO.  The fact that they even have it available is pretty neat.

 

 

[noone]

That link to Shane Hurlbut's article and while under his name starts off "This is David Weldon, Shane’s assistant."      Just saying for accuracy.

[Chrad]

12 minutes ago, noone said:

That link to Shane Hurlbut's article and while under his name starts off "This is David Weldon, Shane’s assistant."      Just saying for accuracy.

He does state that it's based on Shane's impressions though, and when Shane wrote the V-Log skin tone latitude test article he echoed the sentiments about the default settings GH4.

[jcs]

It's a team review with Shane's input: http://www.thehurlblog.com/cinematography-panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh4/

Quote

Overall Thoughts

After our extensive testing of the Panasonic GH4, we have some thoughts on the platform. The image that this camera creates looks and feels more like a broadcast video camera than it does a cinema camera. Where this camera felt most like it was showing us a video look is in the night ISO test. Our model almost appeared to be jumping off the screen, as if she were standing in front of a green screen wall. There was very little falloff on the edges of her body, so she ultimately looked extremely sharp, where the background fell way out of focus.

I’ve heard a lot of people are interested in using this camera for documentary style shooting because of its price point, the flip out LCD screen and the ability to shoot 4K. The drawbacks to the platform are when shooting anywhere over ISO 400, you begin to introduce an unnatural noise pattern. Shane’s feelings on the noise were that it didn’t look natural like film, but it had the sporadic array that a broadcast camera would create.

“But it shoots 4K, Shane and Dave! And it’s under $2000!” You’re absolutely right – it is an inexpensive camera that delivers 4K, but is it worth it? I think back to NAB this past year when Michael Cioni of Light Iron Outpost gave a presentation at the Arri booth that highlighted understanding what your deliverable file format needs to be. If you do not have the need for a 4K deliverable, why would you sacrifice areas of dynamic range, variable frame rates, etc., just to have 4K? Think about what the needs for your project are, not just the price of the camera and its overall resolution.

Our Final Thoughts

As far as using the Panasonic GH4 on a feature film or commercial project, we have felt through this test that it does not fit where Shane likes to work. The GH4 does have its place and is still defining what that place is, but this camera does not have a filmic feel. It looks and feels like a broadcast video camera.

Our best advice? Rent the Panasonic GH4, do your own tests, shoot with the camera and determine for yourself if it fits into your workflow. We are in an exciting age and place in digital capture, where every camera that is developed does have a place in the industry. It is up to you to find where it fits in your projects!

The GH5 is looking a lot better so all good

[Emanuel]

3 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Those Sam Kolder transitions, though. Everybody is doing 'em now these days, all them zooms and twirls. I mean, maybe it can be done tastefully, but this was just tacky as hell, no? Everytime a Casey Neistat rises, we get hordes of copycats that just do the same for the sake of being hip... but with poor execution.

Got your point. Not a youtuber here, though. To my eyes, it simply fits the subject.

[Emanuel]

3 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Of course there's the 'J'adore tes transitions' in the comments, because you know, people are simple beings. But to me it's like people aren't inspired to find their own thing, they just copy what others do. It's not just the transitions... of course the video itself is a wink to/rip off from Phil Holland's 'Forged':.. it's like we're losing originality.

 

What do they have in common? The set? ; )

Apples to oranges here as far as aesthetics concerns... And naturally, I don't even mean the acquisition side, really ;-) (some dozens of thousands in-between don't make much of that difference, subject-wise, like it or not : )

I guess, both of them (a short-film-test vs just-a-test, by this chronological order) match the market segments within. Some fairness on the tools, after all :-)

[jonpais]

2 hours ago, Neumann Films said:

Just digging into 6K Photo Mode files.  Shot with the SLR Magic 2x primes (jury is still out on them for me...lot's of character but they are slow and not very sharp wide open, so they get even slower).  No V-LogL is a bummer but it's not a deal breaker.  Pretty good option for anamorphic, IMO.  The fact that they even have it available is pretty neat.

 

 

Lovely image. Can I order a 16X20? ?

[Vladimir]

3 hours ago, Neumann Films said:

Just digging into 6K Photo Mode files.  Shot with the SLR Magic 2x primes (jury is still out on them for me...lot's of character but they are slow and not very sharp wide open, so they get even slower).  No V-LogL is a bummer but it's not a deal breaker.  Pretty good option for anamorphic, IMO.  The fact that they even have it available is pretty neat.

Do you know a method how to delete all those CA without having RAW-option?) Its a lovely image, but we're all seen what has been done to get it look like this)

[Neumann Films]

34 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Lovely image. Can I order a 16X20? ?

Thanks

 

I actually wish I took some stills with this setup now.  The 6K Photo Mode is fine but pretty compressed.  

[webrunner5]

Well l do respect Shane a lot, but I really don't think many of us on here are going to be trying to match our cameras to the Reds, or Arii's we are also shooting with!

The GH5 is a 2000 Dollar camera! Is it a Arri Alexa, a Sony F55, a Arriflex that Sam Peckinpah shot, with one off lenses, in slo mo from hell, well no. It is probably the best camera that 90% of us could Ever afford, new or used! Can it sort of look like a Canon 5D mkIII in raw, BMPCC in Raw, you bet your ass if you can grade worth a shit. 

This is finally, a no F-ing excuses, for the masses camera. This is a camera just like the Panasonic AF 100A I just bought, that you can stop pissing about the camera and blame your own ass if it comes out good or not, both shooting with it, and editing, grading with it.  Well I do wish it had the AF 100's form factor but, this is the Camera where the Rubber meets the road thing.

Time to put up or shut up. It is here to take advantage of, and go out and do it! It really is that damn simple. Make It So, or find another job, or another hobby. Excuses are in the Past Tense with this camera with all the updates they plan in the summer to have you can install. Hmm, end of rant today! 

[Davey]

23 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well l do respect Shane a lot, but I really don't think many of us on here are going to be trying to match our cameras to the Reds, or Arii's we are also shooting with!

The GH5 is a 2000 Dollar camera! Is it a Arri Alexa, a Sony F55, a Arriflex that Sam Peckinpah shot, with one off lenses, in slo mo from hell, well no. It is probably the best camera that 90% of us could Ever afford, new or used! Can it sort of look like a Canon 5D mkIII in raw, BMPCC in Raw, you bet your ass if you can grade worth a shit. 

This is finally, a no F-ing excuses, for the masses camera. This is a camera just like the Panasonic AF 100A I just bought, that you can stop pissing about the camera and blame your own ass if it comes out good or not, both shooting with it, and editing, grading with it.  Well I do wish it had the AF 100's form factor but, this is the Camera where the Rubber meets the road thing.

Time to put up or shut up. It is here to take advantage of, and go out and do it! It really is that damn simple. Make It So, or find another job, or another hobby. Excuses are in the Past Tense with this camera with all the updates they plan in the summer to have you can install. Hmm, end of rant today! 

Excellent rant, that.

[webrunner5]

Thank you thank you. I think, like I have said, Panasonic has given us a gift  with this camera.  And heck I bet it would also make a damn good vacation stills camera also, and a every day one. Not a bad deal. With the 6k Photo mode another reason of you can't loose.

I have no clue how Sony can even touch it with the A7 series without raising their price a Lot, and they are a Lot to start with even now. Not that they are sort of killing people price wise on a full frame camera now, but can they charge 4000 Dollars for one to outdo the GH5?? I don't think so, but who knows.

They are going to Have to add a articulating screen, touch screen, bigger body to disparate the heat, bigger battery, on and on. I don't see it happening for the same money they charge now. And that is still 1000 bucks more than a GH5.

[webrunner5]

Wow this graph from Thom Hogans web site is not too promising for Panasonic!! I know the last 2 years sort of missing, but you could have Samsung, Leica, Fuji, etc. in the mix. Olympus seems to be doing damn well?

 

[jcs]

5 hours ago, Neumann Films said:

Just digging into 6K Photo Mode files.  Shot with the SLR Magic 2x primes (jury is still out on them for me...lot's of character but they are slow and not very sharp wide open, so they get even slower).  No V-LogL is a bummer but it's not a deal breaker.  Pretty good option for anamorphic, IMO.  The fact that they even have it available is pretty neat.

 

 

This looked pretty good until I clicked full size- lots of artifacts and loss of detail in the background, blurry then solid edges, like cards, etc. Is this green screen and an artificial background or compression artifacts?

[noone]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Thank you thank you. I think, like I have said, Panasonic has given us a gift  with this camera.  And heck I bet it would also make a damn good vacation stills camera also, and a every day one. Not a bad deal. With the 6k Photo mode another reason of you can't loose.

I have no clue how Sony can even touch it with the A7 series without raising their price a Lot, and they are a Lot to start with even now. Not that they are sort of killing people price wise on a full frame camera now, but can they charge 4000 Dollars for one to outdo the GH5?? I don't think so, but who knows.

They are going to Have to add a articulating screen, touch screen, bigger body to disparate the heat, bigger battery, on and on. I don't see it happening for the same money they charge now. And that is still 1000 bucks more than a GH5.

Apart from a few serious video users, are many people really going to be deciding between an M4/3 GH5 and a FF A7ii/A7Rii/A7sii?       It seems to me the GH5 is going to get a huge part of the semi pro/lower budget pro video market and indie film market but the only Sony in that space is the A7sii and that camera is to me complementary to the GH5 rather than in opposition to it.      I love m4/3 but much prefer a larger sensor to shoot at night/high ISO/low light and don't see that changing any time soon.

GH5 would be serious overkill for my video use and while it seems a nice stills camera, I still couldn't see it being a better stills camera than even the APSC Sony's, Fuji's and others.

[Neumann Films]

7 minutes ago, jcs said:

This looked pretty good until I clicked full size- lots of artifacts and loss of detail in the background, blurry then solid edges, like cards, etc. Is this green screen and an artificial background or compression artifacts?

Shallow DOF on a sub-optimal anamorphic lens combined with JPEG compression combined with some motion blur (it's a dolly move) combined with...well all of those things in 8 bit.  That said, in motion and with a lot of film grain to compensate, it looks sharp in the right places and "grainy" in the rest.  We were asked to shoot a second video for Panasonic using these lenses.  Tons of character and but not for those that want really sharp/crisp images.  The edges get really soft (you can see even in the center where it becomes soft).  This is a shot on location though, no green screen.

[jcs]

14 minutes ago, Neumann Films said:

Shallow DOF on a sub-optimal anamorphic lens combined with JPEG compression combined with some motion blur (it's a dolly move) combined with...well all of those things in 8 bit.  That said, in motion and with a lot of film grain to compensate, it looks sharp in the right places and "grainy" in the rest.  We were asked to shoot a second video for Panasonic using these lenses.  Tons of character and but not for those that want really sharp/crisp images.  The edges get really soft (you can see even in the center where it becomes soft).

Interesting end result- kind of reminded me of a CGI scene (as a cool effect). Perhaps too much grain/noise was removed; tried adding some back and tweaked the color a bit. Specular on lip was oversharp/digital, fixed. I dig the super color of the 60's... It's harder to make a super-saturated image look good if the color science is off. This looks decent full size:

[Neumann Films]

24 minutes ago, jcs said:

Interesting end result- kind of reminded me of a CGI scene (as a cool effect). Perhaps too much grain/noise was removed; tried adding some back and tweaked the color a bit. Specular on lip was oversharp/digital, fixed. I dig the super color of the 60's... It's harder to make a super-saturated image look good if the color science is off. This looks decent full size:

Nice grade!  I'm feeling more Sepia tones myself, but this looks damn fine   Most compressed images are pretty bad when you look too closely.  I generally just use the phone and TV test.  If it looks good there...I'm covered.