Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, Phil A said:

@Emanuel You keep saying they should use tap-to-focus and AF-S but I fail to see how one would use that one a gimbal? The big advantage of AF in video in my eyes is when you can't actually manually focus (and remote follow focus is really expensive and hard to do as one man crew when it quickly requires a bigger gimbal) and just put in AF-C (maybe even with face detect) and the camera takes care of the focus while you take care of framing and composition.

 

Yesterday I've watched the "Should the GH5 be compared to a Sony A7sii?" video by Leftcoast Media House and once you notice the autofocus pulsating (the poster in the background goes sharper and softer all the time) you can't unsee it.
If I'd get a GH5 I'd probably prefer using manual focus for the time being.

You can stop hunting, locking AF when focused to begin with. As simple as that. Set up the focus peaking and keep the distance to the area in focus, monitoring it in order to not put the focus off over your subject.

Depending on the camera movement (RS has never been quite of a trouble when people understand the way a camera should move not exactly spinning around, except when motivated by the subject, that is, formulas like soap operas never much helped the aesthetics of film), it is rather possible to smoothly and quickly move the focus box in the touch screen even with the camera on gimbal.

I even bet that an extra IBIS will help you out to keep the stabilizer steady : D Techie pleonasm apart and yes, these things require solid training but, like the bikes, once you get it... ; )

Not yet? As eltorrete has just posted, mobile app will be easy going and your friend. Let's not forget touch to focus is part of AF system and if has worked in a 5-years now GF5, count on it shooting with their last and improved toy. This 'GH5 AF sucks' is pure BS. Only shooters do suck if/when that happens.

Moreover, AF performance is not all the same, neither all the Panasonic/Olympus lens models, focal lengths, etc, with several versions included, better to test it before going to shoot without mention the infinite range of settings combination, various speed, sensitivity on responsiveness (Max Yuryev only tested +3 and -3... c'mon *Phew* see Tommy Callaway's test and his different settings, for example) and so on (again, no free lunch), isn't it? :-)

Here's another test, not mine, but gives a scope that even the most lazy AF varies on the results in the very end:

And why not to take a look on the comments too? ;-)

[Fritz Pierre]

As with all cameras the operator has to overcome the obstacles pertaining to their particular shoot....if you get paid to shoot, you're not asked to whine about it....you're asked to do something....it's your job as the expert to go away and figure out how....if you choose the GH5 for that job....figure out what you need....period...the trailer below was for a movie shot on a GH2 on 2 lenses....shot mostly handheld....with a measuring tape and a PIECE OF STRING tied between the operator and the actor!..most people I've been on sets with through the years never went to film school....they are there because they caught a break...are intelligent and resourceful....and people can stand to be around them... I know it depends on what you use the camera for...but if I was going to go down to shoot a shipwreck at 60 ft underwater....I would plan for that....I would not complain that the splashproof feature on the camera  is inadequate....if all you're capable of working with is an instimatic camera,...then start with that....this camera is very advanced and will take an investment in time....maybe months!....this is no more a toy than an Alexa or an F35 is....with one difference....for the everyday man, it is affordable and much more forgiving...this is a tool capable of professional work!...be a professional if you get paid to use it...

 

 

 

[Ken Ross]

11 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Gh5 AF is terrible 

look from 12:50

 

I guess you didn't see all the tests I conducted with my GH5 and posted on these pages. I believe he has a defective body since I couldn't begin to duplicate the horrible performance he posted. My GH5's AF is absolutely fine and comparable to what I experienced with my A6300...maybe better.

[Hanriverprod]

GH5 vs A6500 Autofocus Comparison - 4K & 1080P

Max is going for broke with these af tests.

Last few times I shot on a 80D I turned it on and the af just worked without digging into the menu. Did Panasonic try a shock and awe tactic with all their confusing af settings to hide outdated technology?

[jonpais]

13 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Bias is present in everything in life and in the world as we all know, even though, we tend to forget, ignore or deny. We are all biased. We take position, so there we are. You, for example, you defend your perspective on this topic. Bias : )

That said, I don't think he is dishonest, I found him pretty committed to give to his audience the best he can. Paid reviews have another tone. Competent as reviewer? Well, we'll have a distinct matter to discuss then. A malfunctioning unit can't serve as excuse for professionals when AF is presented as used by soccer moms. To barely call it scientific is unscientific. AF use is beyond the usage he recalls in his video. Frankly, I wouldn't hire such shooter, I'm sorry to write it because I appreciate some of his effort indeed. 30 minutes of test would demand much more, though. Barry Green standard, I guess, my bad.

To fulfill the whole cup is variably hard to succeed. But, when we approach some intricate subject, we must try it or we risk to fail. Voilà (if I put the accent in a different language of French, I won't reach to properly write the idiom ; )

E :-)

Hate to open up old wounds, but wasn't it you who started the thread GH5 Noise Reduction @high ISOs simply sucks... ?

[eltorrete]

I will not say that my GH5 is better than the 6500 because I do not have it. What I say 100% is that my GH5 is much better than Max's.

[wolf33d]

57 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:

I guess you didn't see all the tests I conducted with my GH5 and posted on these pages. I believe he has a defective body since I couldn't begin to duplicate the horrible performance he posted. My GH5's AF is absolutely fine and comparable to what I experienced with my A6300...maybe better.

Are you speaking about the video of focusing in the street on the car, then on something else then on the car again? If yes this is totally different than the focus tracking of his face. If not which video please?

[Hanriverprod]

From all the footage I've seen so far Max's camera with af looks on par. I wish there was more footage of composed, graded 10bit stuff. I think we are all getting a good picture of what the af is like, it's time to move on.

[Phil A]

 

27 minutes ago, Hanriverprod said:

GH5 vs A6500 Autofocus Comparison - 4K & 1080P

Have to love that video at 10m32s where they look at the GH5 Extended Manual online and it actually says that the camera will probably struggle when autofocusing in UHD video but that's for accuracy, not a malfunction. Seems like sugar coating a lacking function.

Also interesting that the part above that warns of overheating messages. Makes me curious if people will run into these or it's more hypothetical.

Nevertheless, I'm really looking forward to seeing what people do with the camera once the autofocus arguments die down.

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

As with all cameras the operator has to overcome the obstacles pertaining to their particular shoot....if you get paid to shoot, you're not asked to whine about it....you're asked to do something....it's your job as the expert to go away and figure out how....if you choose the GH5 for that job....figure out what you need....period...the trailer below was for a movie shot on a GH2 on 2 lenses....shot mostly handheld....with a measuring tape and a PIECE OF STRING tied between the operator and the actor!..most people I've been on sets with through the years never went to film school....they are there because they caught a break...are intelligent and resourceful....and people can stand to be around them... I know it depends on what you use the camera for...but if I was going to go down to shoot a shipwreck at 60 ft underwater....I would plan for that....I would not complain that the splashproof feature on the camera  is inadequate....if all you're capable of working with is an instimatic camera,...then start with that....this camera is very advanced and will take an investment in time....maybe months!....this is no more a toy than an Alexa or an F35 is....with one difference....for the everyday man, it is affordable and much more forgiving...this is a tool capable of professional work!...be a professional if you get paid to use it...

 

 

 

Spoken like a Old Man with experience. Well done sir, well done! 

1:40 mark is what he is talking about the string on video below.

 

[Fritz Pierre]

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

Spoken like a Old Man with experience. Well done sir, well done! 

Ahhh...well like a couple of Vampires coming across each other in the night, our posts sometimes give away where we've been!!

[hyalinejim]

23 minutes ago, Fritz Pierre said:

 a couple of Vampires coming across each other in the night

I think I've seen that film...

[Borbarad]

So much about awful the GH5 AF.........

 

 

Well, its seems their is a nice learning curve in howto.... and then the GH5 does AF

B

[Cinegain]

On 23-3-2017 at 1:55 AM, Cinegain said:

The 95MB/s* seems to classify as V30 (so max. sustained 30MB/s, 150Mbit/s should be a little less than 20MB/s, so I imagine that's fine; *read, 90MB/s write). More about speed classes, as you've probably seen, here: https://www.sdcard.org/consumers/choices/speed_class/index.html . Haven't seen any official V60 cards yet (required for GH5 w/ firmware update; 400MBit/s - 50MB/s, so V60), but I have V90 and those would roughly be the ones with spec: R280/W250. The Panasonic and Delkin ones, don't come cheap though. If 90 equals 30 and 250 equals 90, you're looking at about a factor 3x. So, 60x3=180 (also 90+30=120/2=60 and 250+90=340/2=170). That's the exact writespeed of the 'Transcend Ultimate SDXC 64GB, UHS-II U3/Class 10'. With all that said, draw your own conclusions and then check cards availlable and pricing right here.

Btw, on the backside of the SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC UHS-II U3 280MB/s packaging it gives you a little table for '64GB recording time' with the notion '4K @ 500 Mbps - 16 minutes'. So you'd think, regardless of the Vx0-classification that's missing, they've kept in mind that you'd actually use this for 'cinema-quality 4K' (also on the packaging) with high bitrates. It's much cheaper than the V90 badge ones. No guarantees of course.

[Borbarad]

Another one....

 

 

 

 

B

[ozmorphasis]

On 4/5/2017 at 0:05 PM, Ken Ross said:

So here's the video I promised. I tried to duplicate Max's AF scenario as best I could. None of these clips have been edited and none that I shot were left out. Everything you see is everything I shot. Very different results. What can I say? As I've said before, these results are extremely typical for everything I've shot thus far. I've never shot a single clip that even remotely resembles what Max got.

 

Are we seeing the downside of the lack of an OLPF in the GH5 in the roof of those buildings.  As a GH4 owner, I've never had to be anxious about Moire.  It just hasn't been common enough to fret about it.  Your shots of the roof on that building, however, is totally unusable for any of my paid work.  

 

Of course, native lenses with their oversharpened look tend to exacerbate the issue, but still.  That shot looks worrisome to me.  

[Davey]

3 hours ago, Phil A said:

 

Have to love that video at 10m32s where they look at the GH5 Extended Manual online and it actually says that the camera will probably struggle when autofocusing in UHD video but that's for accuracy, not a malfunction. Seems like sugar coating a lacking function.

Also interesting that the part above that warns of overheating messages. Makes me curious if people will run into these or it's more hypothetical.

Nevertheless, I'm really looking forward to seeing what people do with the camera once the autofocus arguments die down.

 

[dbp]

1 hour ago, ozmorphasis said:

Are we seeing the downside of the lack of an OLPF in the GH5 in the roof of those buildings.  As a GH4 owner, I've never had to be anxious about Moire.  It just hasn't been common enough to fret about it.  Your shots of the roof on that building, however, is totally unusable for any of my paid work.  

 

Of course, native lenses with their oversharpened look tend to exacerbate the issue, but still.  That shot looks worrisome to me.  

Watch it full screen, it's not there. An artifact of a youtube embed. 

[Cas1]

1 hour ago, Davey said:

 

When I saw Max read and then explain this answer I thought he did not understand what the manual tried to explain, because he oversimplified the above into: "so it's normal to not have good autofocus in 4k". I believe there maybe a flawed translation in the manual. Because to me 'Highly accurate focus' sounds like a description of 'very responsive' in the 'responsiveness' setting. The 'reduced Auto Focus speed' is about the focus speed setting. The way that I read this answer is that is you crank up the responsiveness setting to the highest and focus speed to the lowest, the AF will appear not to work. What I believe may be happening in the processing is that the focus change is below a minimal change given the short measuring interval time the 'very responsive' setting allows for. When the camera measures the second time, there is no (too little) focus change, so the camera does something else (stop focussing/ move back to previous focus?) instead of keep on moving the focus.

I think unravelling this new AF system is going to be a great job for forums like this. I wish Panasonic would explain to us how the AF algorithm works in more detail. The quirks Peter Gregg explains, like 60p, pre focussing (grid and white + sign on the main subject to tell the camera what the main and preferred subject is) and then pressing record.

[Phil A]

@Borbarad Both of these videos are using the 60p mode and the second one even explicitly says you have to use 60p for improved autofocus performance. That mean you can't shoot 24p like most people want and it's not possible to record in 10bit. I don't see these videos as good news. Also what good are so damn many autofocus settings and options if most are subpar? 

 

On the other hand a lot of people love the A7s II and that definitely has really bad autofocus, cinema cameras typically have none at all, so who really cares. We made it work before, it's just that the latest Canon and Sony cameras spark desires.

Wish there was another fast (f/1.2-1.4) option in the 17-20mm range for m43 than the Voigtländer. Also wondering if image quality is better with the Voigtländer 17.5mm or with the SpeedBooster XL + Canon/Nikkor 28mm f/1.8 .