Looks like the Fuji X-T20 gets 4K!

[rooney111]

6 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

I like the Fuji better in every way, especially the color and less rolling shutter. I have the 10-24, 16-55 and 18-55 that cover everything the 16-50s does and more, plus I have the 23/1.4, 56/1.2 and so on that cover FL's Samsung never made. The Samsung is a faster lens, but to me Fuji video is better at 6400, which is something I never shot with the NX1. I've been wanting to go Fuji for a couple years because of the lenses I always wanted Sony to make, the XT2 solved all my issues with a Fuji body including AF, 4k, 24mp sensor and so on.

Fuji isn't going anywhere either, that's a big plus. There's a dedicated NX1 user base here though, I don't want this thread to get derailed with a NX1 vs. XT2 discussion, please open another thread if that's the goal.

No problem sorry didn't mean to derail, thanks. 

[Viet Bach Bui]

5 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Been shooting with the XT2 for the last two months after shooting with Sony and the NX1 recently, not sure what good ergos are if you consider the XT2 bad, and it completely outclasses anything Sony has in the same class. How are manual control dials for ISO, SS, and aperture bad, along with a better EVF and LCD than most of the competition? Plus the menus are logically organized and you can group anything that can't be included in the Q menu or placed on a custom button in the "My Menu" menu. Custom WB's are much easier than Sony too. But Sony wrote the book on poor usability, so they're easy to pick on.

Some reasons:

- Tiny grip, even compared to the A7 line, and especially compared to the GH line.

- Stiff shutter dials that require a two-finger grip to turn. The dials on the A7 and GH line are easier to use.

- Aperture ring on lens. This make it hard to change aperture on the fly without making the camera shake.

And since you brought up the X-T2, where is the movie record button? I love being able to record video instantly in any mode.

Edit: one more: the grip on the Fuji is covered in some kind of easy-to-slip semi-hard plastic, unlike the soft, grippy rubber on DSLRs and the A7, GH cameras.

 

[Mattias Burling]

- Grip is subjective, I like the xt1 grip more than the A7sii and a6300 I bought and quickly returned/sold.

- Stiff shutter dial is great because I rarely change it for stills and never ever for video. Dont like choppy video motion.

- I didn't know there was people who didn't prefer an aperture ring. You learn every day Personally, not having the aperture on the lens is my biggest issue with the camera I'm currently testing. Spinning dials sucks, takes to much time.

- I don't really see an issue since Ive never been in such a hurry switching between stills and video that I cannot push two buttons instead of one. But we don't know if the xt20 will have a video button yet.

Speaking about Sony. Pretty ironic since one of the absolutely most frequent complaints about them is that they have a video button and dont allow using the shutter button like Fuji. Every single review complains about this.

For me it doesn't matter. I can use both and haven't had issues with either type of setup.

[jonpais]

12 minutes ago, Viet Bach Bui said:

Some reasons:

- Tiny grip, even compared to the A7 line, and especially compared to the GH line.

- Stiff shutter dials that require a two-finger grip to turn. The dials on the A7 and GH line are easier to use.

- Aperture ring on lens. This make it hard to change aperture on the fly without making the camera shake.

And since you brought up the X-T2, where is the movie record button? I love being able to record video instantly in any mode.

Edit: one more: the grip on the Fuji is covered in some kind of easy-to-slip semi-hard plastic, unlike the soft, grippy rubber on DSLRs and the A7, GH cameras.

 

Your list is incomplete, Bui. If initiating recording while looking through the EVF, the LCD turns off, and vice versa. There are no histogram or zebras in movie mode. When using the battery grip, the camera will stop recording when one of the batteries dies. The camera remote app won't capture 4K, only 720p. Battery life is abysmal. There is no articulating LCD screen. Log must be recorded externally. And on and on. Are any of these limitations insurmountable? I'd say if you're a vlogger, this camera may not be for you. Nor would it be the ideal camera for long interviews or for capturing live performances because of the battery issue. But I think there is a place for it in documentary filmmaking, portraiture, weddings, narrative work, fashion, in a studio environment, nature and anywhere else where image quality is of paramount importance. 

[dantheman]

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

- Stiff shutter dial is great because I rarely change it for stills and never ever for video. Dont like choppy video motion.

- I didn't know there was people who didn't prefer an aperture ring. You learn every day Personally, not having the aperture on the lens is my biggest issue with the camera I'm currently testing. Spinning dials sucks, takes to much time.

- I don't really see an issue since Ive never been in such a hurry switching between stills and video that I cannot push two buttons instead of one. But we don't know if the xt20 will have a video button yet.

 

If you look at the camera from a photography point of view I would agree with you but when it comes to video and especially when you use the camera during events that require quick action, like weddings then I"d agree with Viet on most of his points. 

Eventhough filming rules state that as a rule of thumb, the shutter speed to be double the number of frames per second there are many event videographers that use the shutter to compensate for quickly changing light conditions, you might say, use a ND but if you have to move between in- and outdoors quickly a ND can be a pain. Having a dial on camera that you can easily turn with your thumb or index finger without changing the position of your hand is a big advantage.

I also prefer a aperture ring on the lens but only if it's a declicked one but again here I can imagine that a dial on camera might make it easier to change on the fly without introducing shake in your shot, personally I set the aperture and don't touch it anymore during a shot, even if light intensity changes, you choose a aperture depending on the dof that you plan to achieve, change the aperture during a shot and the dof changes, something I never want.

A missing physical record button, if that would be the case, is a big issue, fine if you have all the time but again for event shooters not being able to change between video/photo mode quickly or not being able to hit record instantly without having to dive in a menu system would make a camera useless.

 

[Trek of Joy]

For those complaining about the shutter speed dial - lock it on "T" and use the back dial like any camera. I keep mine on T at all times and use the back dial to adjust I can go from 30 second exposures to 1/8000 pretty quick. I never use the SS dial on top. I ride the shutter all the time when recording as I only have one vary-ND, and its rarely on the lens I'm actually shooting with at any given moment. Its no different from any DSLR, you don't have to use the top dial.

Moving the focus point is a bigger deal to me, and until the a6500 it was impossible without a few button pushes, the joystick on the Fuji makes it a lot faster/easier. I was shooting a penguin in Southern New Zealand last week and followed it around with quick adjustments with the stick. Like Mattias, I prefer aperture rings. Fuji's Manual focus aides are better too, and the EVF is bigger and sharper compared to all Sony's. The rear LCD is better too, and it doesn't dim one bit when you record 4k. And focus magnification isn't super soft like Sony's.

My Fuji has not overheated once - also a big deal for me. I shot 1200 stills and 20 minutes of 4k video on one battery in Sydney a few weeks ago and it was blazing hot, not sure why anyone would call that abysmal. Turn off your camera between frames/takes and don't spend a lot of time reviewing shots and you'll be amazed at how much you can do with a single battery. I have four others, since leaving DSLR's a few years ago to shoot mirrorless, I carry a lot of batteries. Sony loses significant charge overnight when you're not even using it. My Fuji doesn't. Can't tell you how many times I put a fully charged battery in my A7rII and it was only at 90% because it sat for a couple days.

We could go on. Pick one and shoot. As always YMMV, but shooting video with the XT2 for me is far more intuitive than with the A7rII and a6300 it replaced.

[jonpais]

10 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

My Fuji has not overheated once. I shot 1200 stills and 20 minutes of 4k video on one battery, not sure why anyone would call that abysmal.

Agree with most of what you said, but I'm not going to shy away from pointing out the limitations of the camera either. I've never used Sony, but coming from the GH4, or compared to the battery life of the Lumix G85, ten minutes of continuous shooting at 4K is abysmal.

[Mattias Burling]

I think an ND works perfectly for going from indoors to out doors and I dont change shutter speed for events either.

I guess the lesson to take away from this is the same as always. We are all different and have different preferences.

Thats why a person who states his very subjective opinion as a fact will get a bit of opposition

[Trek of Joy]

6 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Agree with most of what you said, but I'm not going to shy away from pointing out the limitations of the camera either. I've never used Sony, but coming from the GH4, or compared to the battery life of the Lumix G85, ten minutes of continuous shooting at 4K is abysmal.

If you need longer times, you probably already know the grip gives you 30 min, or something else would be a better option. But unlike any Sony I've owned, I can keep recording those 10 minute clips until the battery is dead, then do it again with another, and another and so on. I've done run tests twice and gotten more than 60 minutes on a single battery. 

I don't shoot anything that requires more than about 5 or 6 minutes if its an interview, and usually I'm shooting 10 seconds or so, stop/shut off, moving the camera and turn on while repositioning and then recording again, so the time limit isn't an issue for me - the camera getting too hot to touch and shutting down after 30-40 minutes of constant shooting like this is a much bigger deal - again for me. This was life with the a6300 and sometimes with the a7rII.

Cheers

[jonpais]

9 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I think an ND works perfectly for going from indoors to out doors and I dont change shutter speed for events either.

I guess the lesson to take away from this is the same as always. We are all different and have different preferences.

Thats why a person who states his very subjective opinion as a fact will get a bit of opposition

I think the reason Mattias continues to post news and reviews of Fuji cameras is the same reason Trek of Joy and I use Fuji - once you've tried them, you become passionate about them. And never in my life have I seen such beautiful image quality from a consumer camera.

[jonpais]

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

I don't shoot anything that requires more than about 5 or 6 minutes if its an interview, and usually I'm shooting 10 seconds or so, stop/shut off, moving the camera and turn on while repositioning and then recording again, so the time limit isn't an issue for me - the camera getting too hot to touch and shutting down after 30-40 minutes of constant shooting like this is a much bigger deal - again for me. This was life with the a6300 and sometimes with the a7rII.

Cheers

I'm sure I'm reading incorrectly, but you don't really shoot ten seconds of an interview, stop the camera, reposition it and begin recording again, do you? 

[Prandi]

I have a 2 hours seminar (indoor) filmed. Had no problems. Camera I had connected to the power supply. This goes even without Batterie.
The really only problem would be if a recording "durcho" longer than 1 hour should be. (30min limit)
I can only agree with Mathias - everyone has their preferences. Just one thing I would like to say - I would never judge a camera with which I have not "intensively" apart. There is really much nonsense about the x-t2 written mainly by those who had the x-t2 not even in the hands.
I had tested a C100 - 7D - RX10 II - and a A6300 a weekend. But the feeling and the image quality had none of the mentioned. Although the weaknesses mentioned by Johnpais  really are true - there are also other (only ext. F-log) which is still to come.
But I'm really looking forward to "every day" with this great camera.

And I also agree with the statements of Trek of joy - even to 100%.

sorry my English was Translate 

[Kisaha]

I am reading your Sony and Fuji experiences and I am so very glad I haven't abandoned my NX1 yet.

[Emanuel]

Good cameras never become outdated... ;-)

[Inazuma]

Love my little X-T10. Apparently the 20 will also have a touchscreen  Hope they keep the same size and don't bump up the price too much.

Like others have mentioned here, the XT2 has some major ergonomic quirks. But when I go home and load up the footage on my monitor, all is forgotten and forgiven for the beautiful image it gives

[Arikhan]

@Inazuma

Handling, ergonomics and shooting experience are at the end of the day matters of personal taste, preferences and experience. The shooter has just to be okay with his camera and its limitations and flaws. As long as a filmer and his audience are satisfied with IQ of a camera, everything is going to be alright....

[Django]

IMO the XT2 is Fuji's first serious attempt at video. As such it should be cut some slack. Yes it's missing a couple of things and has a few quirks, that hopefully firmware will address.. but overall it's a very solid effort. The 4K image is excellent, the film simulations unique & brilliant. Gorgeous color science. One of the best auto WB of any current system. Then with Fuji X you get an excellent range of compact lenses with aperture control (who wouldn't appreciate that?!!!). Top notch Made in Japan build quality. Lovely design.. Manual controls. Basically all the stuff that's made Fuji X a cult among still shooters..

The ergonomics.. well clearly they are geared towards photography, and as such they are pretty much perfect on the XT2. For video, it's a little hit & miss. But no mirrorless camera is perfect in this domain, and overall I like the ergonomics a lot lot more then Sony's.. that require all kinds of button pushes and LCD navigation to get to basic functions.. Also love the view mode button on XT2, allowing direct LCD/EVF configs, very handy for gimbal work etc..

Now that's not to say a lot could be improved. I haven't used this cam on any professional work yet as I'm still putting it through it's paces. Lack of internal log being my biggest complaint for my type of work. But despite all its quirks and limitations, I still find it a fun camera to use and capable of superb IQ..

[deezid]

15 hours ago, jonpais said:

Fuji cameras are unusable for video.  

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C

Lovely colors!
Really like what the Fuji XT2 does with it's color science.

Just one question, is it possible to get more information in the highlights? They seem to blow out quite early.

[jonpais]

4 hours ago, deezid said:

Lovely colors!
Really like what the Fuji XT2 does with it's color science.

Just one question, is it possible to get more information in the highlights? They seem to blow out quite early.

Sure, just dial down highlights to -2 or -3.

[Trek of Joy]

10 hours ago, jonpais said:

I'm sure I'm reading incorrectly, but you don't really shoot ten seconds of an interview, stop the camera, reposition it and begin recording again, do you? 

That's for b-roll or capturing scenic shots while traveling, not during interviews, ha, ha.

11 hours ago, jonpais said:

I think the reason Mattias continues to post news and reviews of Fuji cameras is the same reason Trek of Joy and I use Fuji - once you've tried them, you become passionate about them. And never in my life have I seen such beautiful image quality from a consumer camera.

And in the ned that's what matters most, there are compromises with every camera I've used, find what suits your needs best and get out and shoot.

My shooting is 50/50 between stills/video, that's why I have the F/2.8 zooms and a variety of primes, along with a few of the variable aperture zooms, lots of options. The XT2 is a stellar stills camera and the video IQ is superb, its the best hybrid available IMO. Once you shoot with it for awhile and get develop the muscle memory for the controls, its very user friendly.

If the XT-20 shoots XT2 quality 4k, then it'll be a steal. My guess is it will not have Flog and it looks like PADF isn't making it inside either. So its essentially the X-A3 with an EVF an 4k.

Cheers.