SLR Magic Anamorphot 2x vs Kowa 16H

[hempo22]

Hi everybody

getting into anamorphic and can't decide between these two. I've been reading and watching my eyes off for the past weeks and I'm just running in circles now. Unfortunately I got no chance of testing them and have to make a "blind buy".

My main cameras are GH4 and Red Scarlet-X with native MFT lenses and Nikon AI(s). Will shoot in 4:3 for proper ratio and I'd like to go as wide as possible (think Primo 40mm, or close-ish)

Which would work the best for me and my setup in terms of sharpness and fast-ish aperture (I like low light, sorry)?

Any advice and thoughts are welcome since I'm a complete noob in this area

[zerocool22]

Hey,

I am selling a full anamorphic set. Kowa bell and howell 2X if you are interested. (which should be sharpest anamorphic option out there at this pricepoint).

 

[bzpop]

very different solutions and very personal decision;

i never liked SLR magic 2x  artifacts and vertical flares, it's kinda soft wider then f4 while my Kowa 16H is pretty sharp @ f1.2 or f1.4 , but i guess it is more about your shooting, if it's run and gun dual focus is a very hard to deal with and SLR Magic will be definitely easier to work with cuz it's almost 'focus through', but flares and anamorphic properties look way better on Kowas, well, at least to me:)

 

[ken]

SLR magic 2x is about twice price as 16H or more.  So if not better a little bit, who would buy it?

[Caleb Genheimer]

16-H and SLR Magic Rangefinder.

[BabsDoProd]

I've been acquiring anamorphics and these two have been high on my list. I bought a 16H when it was advertised as an 8Z, not bad either way and I got a GREAT auction deal on it so a win's a win. The 16H has warm orange flares and the SLR Magic, from the reviews and videos I've seen, has more modern blue flares. That right there is already divisive amongst anamorphic fans and it also comes down to taste as well, which some have already mentioned with artistic preference in terms of flare quality. I prefer blue flares so the SLR Magic is fine with me but I haven't tested one yet so I don't know what it's like working with it and what my lens choices are. As for the Kowa 16H, it's really handy and the size compared to the big boy projection lenses like the Hifi 2 or something makes it a dream to work with. Paired with the SLR Magic rangefinder, it's a really great and completely practical solution but you're still limited to the 85mm and up on full frame and 50mm and up on S35. To note, I wouldn't use it as a run and gun handheld solution as, whether paired with the SLR Magic rangefinder or not, it can be a wonky setup. In that case, a straight screw on anamorphic adapter like the SLR Magic would be much more capable. Even so, matching those warm orange flares with anything else can be a challenge and, coincidentally, the most practical companion to the Kowa 16H would be the Kowa 8Z as you could hard mount that with a thread adapter. It's expensive either way you go but no matter what you buy, definitely have the rangefinder, it makes just about any anamorphic adapter setup just work. I'm going to be making a video about anamorphics sometime in the near future, I'm still planning it out and debating what to include and the SLR Magic 2X is high on my list, I just wish there was more information and real examples on it as just doing a basic search online there's very little out there and makes me wonder if not a lot of people are using it.

[PhilipV]

8 hours ago, BabsDoProd said:

I've been acquiring anamorphics and these two have been high on my list. I bought a 16H when it was advertised as an 8Z, not bad either way and I got a GREAT auction deal on it so a win's a win. The 16H has warm orange flares and the SLR Magic, from the reviews and videos I've seen, has more modern blue flares. That right there is already divisive amongst anamorphic fans and it also comes down to taste as well, which some have already mentioned with artistic preference in terms of flare quality. I prefer blue flares so the SLR Magic is fine with me but I haven't tested one yet so I don't know what it's like working with it and what my lens choices are. As for the Kowa 16H, it's really handy and the size compared to the big boy projection lenses like the Hifi 2 or something makes it a dream to work with. Paired with the SLR Magic rangefinder, it's a really great and completely practical solution but you're still limited to the 85mm and up on full frame and 50mm and up on S35. To note, I wouldn't use it as a run and gun handheld solution as, whether paired with the SLR Magic rangefinder or not, it can be a wonky setup. In that case, a straight screw on anamorphic adapter like the SLR Magic would be much more capable. Even so, matching those warm orange flares with anything else can be a challenge and, coincidentally, the most practical companion to the Kowa 16H would be the Kowa 8Z as you could hard mount that with a thread adapter. It's expensive either way you go but no matter what you buy, definitely have the rangefinder, it makes just about any anamorphic adapter setup just work. I'm going to be making a video about anamorphics sometime in the near future, I'm still planning it out and debating what to include and the SLR Magic 2X is high on my list, I just wish there was more information and real examples on it as just doing a basic search online there's very little out there and makes me wonder if not a lot of people are using it.

is the look of the kowa 16H noticeably different from the one of the kowa 16s?

[ken]

4 hours ago, PhilipV said:

is the look of the kowa 16H noticeably different from the one of the kowa 16s?

16h/8z/b&h/Elmoscope II are the only 2x lens with its diameter size bigger to its length, except LOMO 35mm.  So compared with 16S, shorter in length, bigger diameter,  which means wider angle, or less vignettes when uses with the same prime lens. 

[elgabogomez]

The 16h and the 16s have virtually the same look, the difference is as Ken said the chance for wider taking lens on the h/z/elmo II/b&h, but if you where using a 50mm on an H and an 85mm on an S in the same scene, there is more likely to be a different look from the 50 and 85 variance in coatings, type of aspherical correction, t/s stop, etc. Than from the kowas in front of them.

[Flynn]

With the exception of the 16H, are all the Kowa 16's basically the same?

[elgabogomez]

I could be wrong but there appears to be 3 types of kowa 16, the 16h/8z/Elmoscope II/kowa for B&H that has the widest lens elements, then there is the 16s/16d that have de 43mm back (with a smaller back element) and front element is also smaller than 16h type, and finally the 16a/vidoscope that have the smallest back element and the front element is same size as the 16s type. It can get confusing as there are kowa 16 lenses that don't have h or s or a distinction but can be same size as any of them. I only have personal experience with the s and h type and have an h type that only says kowa 16.

[BabsDoProd]

Actually noticed I got mixed up with the 8Z, I actually meant the B&H as the screw on adapter best suited to accompany the 16H. With so many models and variations it's easy to get confused about which is which lol! As for the 16H look compared to other Kowas, it should be very similar, as was said it's really just the element size and adaptability for APSC and full frame, they all work but some better than others, hence the bigger 16H, 8Z, and B&H being so sought after. Another correction, the 16H doesn't have orange flares, I misspoke, it flares blue as well but it's a warmer less blue color that mixes with the source light more than the SLR Magic which tends towards blue colored flares much of the time. It's different looks and depends on what you're after and what you like.

[Flynn]

Can you shoot the 16s with your taking lens wide open? What's the minimum focal length for full frame- 85mm?

[BabsDoProd]

Just now, Flynn said:

Can you shoot the 16s with your taking lens wide open? What's the minimum focal length for full frame- 85mm?

You know, I see people trying to do this all the time but unless you're on M43 or a 1" sensor vidoecamera or something it just doesn't work most of the time. Anamorphic adapters like these don't lend themselves to being used at F1.4 or faster, they're not optically built for that. High end cinema anamorphics are and that's why you see ones with fast aperture ratings. For adapters, your best results are F4 and up and F2.8 is the most practical wide open aperture I would recommend but depending on the adapter you're using that may or may not be a stretch. The big projector lenses like the Hypergonar Hifi 2, Zeiss 63 2x, and Moller 63 2x must be at minimum F8 to even get some semblance of focus. Diopters help in this regard but really your mileage may vary there. Looking back at all the literature on cinematography and various back issues of American Cinematographer, when it comes to anamorphics, even the professionals were rating F4 and up (albeit in T stops which are a little different but roughly the same) and that was only if they wanted bokeh in the shot, otherwise it was often F8/T8 they were filming at. To help with this, we have cameras now that are great in low light and show stoppers like the Sony A7S help out tremendously and really lends itself to anamorphic filming by letting you cleanly boost the ISO so much. Honestly, if you're wanting wide open blurry bokeh images in anamorphic, you either need to basically go full telephoto like 100mm and up, use diopters to focus closer and adjust your focus plane, settle for 1.33x adapters like the Panasonic but lose a little of the anamorphic 2x look, or use a Cinemorph filter (which, from what I saw at the movies yesterday, I think they might have done in "John Wick 2" for a low light scene).