Panasonic G7 or Sony a6300 for feature film

[IronFilm]

Andy Less (one of the mods here), shot a feature film with a handful of Panasonic G7 cameras:

 

Though if I was shooting a feature, I'd spend the little bit extra for a G80 (and try to twist the producer's arm to get a GH5 as well....). 

[jonpais]

3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Andy Less (one of the mods here), shot a feature film with a handful of Panasonic G7 cameras:

 

Though if I was shooting a feature, I'd spend the little bit extra for a G80 (and try to twist the producer's arm to get a GH5 as well....). 

My sentiments exactly. Can anyone point me to some of Andy Lee's work with LTI, because I did a Google search last night and couldn't find a single clip shot by him.

[Micah Mahaffey]

On 1/22/2017 at 1:43 PM, Liam said:

Don't you have an nx1..?

It was actually a buddy of mines, we invested in different things together at the time and he ended up moving away so I went back to my t3i for a little while. 

On 1/23/2017 at 10:44 AM, Marco Tecno said:

I remember your nice movie done with nx1. What happened to it? Imo it's still the best option among the mentioned ones.

I no longer have the Nx1 because of the answer above, buuut In my opnion after using the A6300 for the past 2 weeks I can already say in my opinion that its a superior camera and produces a much more cinematic image once loaded with Pro Color and S-log 2 and 3. Its motion, its non over sharpened look, low light capability (HUGE IMPROVEMENT that I didn't think id love so much) the increase in dynamic range with I did know id love! I also feel like it can be pushed a lot more with grading and not having to transcode footage is a dream and works a lot better with my workflow. But I mean, I do miss the longer battery life and longer record times/smaller file sizes. The Nx1 screen was easier to focus with as well if I was just eye balling it. The rolling shutter is about the same, but on the a6300 it has a 2x crop mode that basically gets rid of the rolling shutter in 4k, Ultimately operating the a300 reminds me a lot of how it felt to operate my t3i without the awesome swivel screen while i do feel the nx1 had some minor bugs and operating it just wasn't as enjoyable to me. Although I still love that camera and would totally shoot on it again!! I do think the A6300 is ultimately better. Also on a side note, the NX1 has a default noise reduction and I believe it causes lots of banding on footage and it gives the nx1 this sort of post processed look, while the a6300 has fine grain that separates the 8 bit compression really nicely.  Hope that answered your question. 

 

Now here's my first test on the a6300 shot at iso 8000 (Which couldn't be done on the NX1) 

 

[Marco Tecno]

Yup, strange, we have a totally different experience.

[tomsemiterrific]

10 hours ago, Micah Mahaffey said:

It was actually a buddy of mines, we invested in different things together at the time and he ended up moving away so I went back to my t3i for a little while. 

I no longer have the Nx1 because of the answer above, buuut In my opnion after using the A6300 for the past 2 weeks I can already say in my opinion that its a superior camera and produces a much more cinematic image once loaded with Pro Color and S-log 2 and 3. Its motion, its non over sharpened look, low light capability (HUGE IMPROVEMENT that I didn't think id love so much) the increase in dynamic range with I did know id love! I also feel like it can be pushed a lot more with grading and not having to transcode footage is a dream and works a lot better with my workflow. But I mean, I do miss the longer battery life and longer record times/smaller file sizes. The Nx1 screen was easier to focus with as well if I was just eye balling it. The rolling shutter is about the same, but on the a6300 it has a 2x crop mode that basically gets rid of the rolling shutter in 4k, Ultimately operating the a300 reminds me a lot of how it felt to operate my t3i without the awesome swivel screen while i do feel the nx1 had some minor bugs and operating it just wasn't as enjoyable to me. Although I still love that camera and would totally shoot on it again!! I do think the A6300 is ultimately better. Also on a side note, the NX1 has a default noise reduction and I believe it causes lots of banding on footage and it gives the nx1 this sort of post processed look, while the a6300 has fine grain that separates the 8 bit compression really nicely.  Hope that answered your question. 

 

Now here's my first test on the a6300 shot at iso 8000 (Which couldn't be done on the NX1) 

 

I may be wrong, but I'm quite sure this scene could easily be done, with better color on the G85 with the Sigma 18-35 1.8 and Metabones EF to MFT speed booster. I use that combination constantly in low light, shoot extremely clean images and never move the ISO above 400. The speed booster gives an almost full-frame image and drops the f-stop to f 1.1--and the Sigma's manual focus is amazing. To compound it all, the five axis internal stabilization on the G85 does a wonderful job.

[Kisaha]

@Micah Mahaffey

Rolling shutter:

NX1 1080p 7.9ms

a6300.       15.2ms

NX1 4K  30.9ms  

a6300     39ms

Especially the 1080p modes of all the Samsungs (and 2.5K for NX500) are best in class (and in general), while 4K performance is not equally stellar, a6300 has absolutely the worst rolling shutter performance tested.

I have worked with a6300 but through 6400iso, 8000, why?

The rest are subjective, not even close to ergonomics and the such, where NX1 is a Canonikon child (dSLR with pro mirrorless body) of the feature, while a6300 a Sony bastard (of a compact and a bridge camera) of the past.

[mercer]

All of this NX1 talk is kinda pointless because the OP has an a6300... and in his opinion he likes it better.

[Kisaha]

As I said "the rest are subjective", and in his subjective kind of choice is the a6300, but when numbers talk it is maths, physics, facts, objective truth, and on a table:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?303559-Measuring-rolling-shutter-put-a-number-on-this-issue!

It is like all science is pointless because most of humanity believe in religions anyway..

(I am watching the Arrival right now by the way!)

P.S 

Today I was talking with my business partner about his ISO experience with his a6300 -and because of this thread- and he was even more strict than me at the ISO department, but this is subjective too ofcourse...

 

[Micah Mahaffey]

13 hours ago, Kisaha said:

@Micah Mahaffey

Rolling shutter:

NX1 1080p 7.9ms

a6300.       15.2ms

NX1 4K  30.9ms  

a6300     39ms

Especially the 1080p modes of all the Samsungs (and 2.5K for NX500) are best in class (and in general), while 4K performance is not equally stellar, a6300 has absolutely the worst rolling shutter performance tested.

I have worked with a6300 but through 6400iso, 8000, why?

The rest are subjective, not even close to ergonomics and the such, where NX1 is a Canonikon child (dSLR with pro mirrorless body) of the feature, while a6300 a Sony bastard (of a compact and a bridge camera) of the past.

The Rolling shutter is near identical from what I can see with the naked eye. But there is a 2x crop mode on the a6300 in 4k that cuts its rolling shutter in half and that's amazing! But honestly rolling shutter is irrelevant once loaded with ProDad Mercalli 4 -CMOS Fixr. Its essentially like having a global shutter in most cases. Also I tested iso 8000 just to see how it'd look and handle. I actually darkened the footage quite a bit in post! The room looked nicely lit and bright before I darkened it all about 3 times of the original in post. On the NX1 you'd be looking at messy footage at anything above 1600 iso and even then it wasn't ideal. I couldn't have used just a phone light as a rim with an NX1. Also the NX1 i did love to shoot with! I just for whatever reasons feel that the Sony works better for me. Maybe its the way how on the Nx1 you had to get into the video mode or something but basically i feel more comfortable holding an a6300 and just shooting, Except for the record button lol, being a t3i user has got me used to some things. I will be releasing a test here soon showing how easy it is to remove the effects of rolling shutter. Which can be done with several programs and plug ins. 

 

14 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

I may be wrong, but I'm quite sure this scene could easily be done, with better color on the G85 with the Sigma 18-35 1.8 and Metabones EF to MFT speed booster. I use that combination constantly in low light, shoot extremely clean images and never move the ISO above 400. The speed booster gives an almost full-frame image and drops the f-stop to f 1.1--and the Sigma's manual focus is amazing. To compound it all, the five axis internal stabilization on the G85 does a wonderful job.

That'd be great to see! You should try it out!  I don't currently own a speed booster but am looking at getting a lens turbo here soon to achieve that full frame look. Just to clarify though, I did stop my lenses down because it was actually blowing out in some shots at iso 8000 (Darkened about 60% in post) and I was using a cell phone light and some very very very dim Christmas lights outside, and obviously my monitor. On my T3i using 1.4 lenses i could achieve the same look if I was using actual lights. The footage here was twice as bright as my eye saw it. I think its possible to achieve the same look, but I can easily make this footage 3 times brighter without introducing any noise right in post because that's how bright the original footage actually is!  

[tdonovic]

Having used the a6300 and g7 extensively, unless you need the high framerate or log, definitely go with the g7. It never overheats and has a really nice image. Also more DOF isnt terrible, if you are shooting on a shoulder mount or something. Just keep in mind you cant have HDMI output while internally recording on the g7.

[tomsemiterrific]

6 hours ago, Micah Mahaffey said:

The Rolling shutter is near identical from what I can see with the naked eye. But there is a 2x crop mode on the a6300 in 4k that cuts its rolling shutter in half and that's amazing! But honestly rolling shutter is irrelevant once loaded with ProDad Mercalli 4 -CMOS Fixr. Its essentially like having a global shutter in most cases. Also I tested iso 8000 just to see how it'd look and handle. I actually darkened the footage quite a bit in post! The room looked nicely lit and bright before I darkened it all about 3 times of the original in post. On the NX1 you'd be looking at messy footage at anything above 1600 iso and even then it wasn't ideal. I couldn't have used just a phone light as a rim with an NX1. Also the NX1 i did love to shoot with! I just for whatever reasons feel that the Sony works better for me. Maybe its the way how on the Nx1 you had to get into the video mode or something but basically i feel more comfortable holding an a6300 and just shooting, Except for the record button lol, being a t3i user has got me used to some things. I will be releasing a test here soon showing how easy it is to remove the effects of rolling shutter. Which can be done with several programs and plug ins. 

 

That'd be great to see! You should try it out!  I don't currently own a speed booster but am looking at getting a lens turbo here soon to achieve that full frame look. Just to clarify though, I did stop my lenses down because it was actually blowing out in some shots at iso 8000 (Darkened about 60% in post) and I was using a cell phone light and some very very very dim Christmas lights outside, and obviously my monitor. On my T3i using 1.4 lenses i could achieve the same look if I was using actual lights. The footage here was twice as bright as my eye saw it. I think its possible to achieve the same look, but I can easily make this footage 3 times brighter without introducing any noise right in post because that's how bright the original footage actually is!  

Here's test no. 1--pretty self-explanatory

 

7 hours ago, Micah Mahaffey said:

The Rolling shutter is near identical from what I can see with the naked eye. But there is a 2x crop mode on the a6300 in 4k that cuts its rolling shutter in half and that's amazing! But honestly rolling shutter is irrelevant once loaded with ProDad Mercalli 4 -CMOS Fixr. Its essentially like having a global shutter in most cases. Also I tested iso 8000 just to see how it'd look and handle. I actually darkened the footage quite a bit in post! The room looked nicely lit and bright before I darkened it all about 3 times of the original in post. On the NX1 you'd be looking at messy footage at anything above 1600 iso and even then it wasn't ideal. I couldn't have used just a phone light as a rim with an NX1. Also the NX1 i did love to shoot with! I just for whatever reasons feel that the Sony works better for me. Maybe its the way how on the Nx1 you had to get into the video mode or something but basically i feel more comfortable holding an a6300 and just shooting, Except for the record button lol, being a t3i user has got me used to some things. I will be releasing a test here soon showing how easy it is to remove the effects of rolling shutter. Which can be done with several programs and plug ins. 

 

That'd be great to see! You should try it out!  I don't currently own a speed booster but am looking at getting a lens turbo here soon to achieve that full frame look. Just to clarify though, I did stop my lenses down because it was actually blowing out in some shots at iso 8000 (Darkened about 60% in post) and I was using a cell phone light and some very very very dim Christmas lights outside, and obviously my monitor. On my T3i using 1.4 lenses i could achieve the same look if I was using actual lights. The footage here was twice as bright as my eye saw it. I think its possible to achieve the same look, but I can easily make this footage 3 times brighter without introducing any noise right in post because that's how bright the original footage actually is!  

Here's a second test with a candle

 

[jonpais]

2 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

Here's test no. 1--pretty self-explanatory

Here's a second test with a candle

May I ask what your sharpening and noise reduction settings were in camera?

[terozzz]

My test with a6300 in real life low light S-log2, ISO 12.800-25.600 

 

[webrunner5]

What  both are saying, micah-mahaffey and terozzz  is that you can shot in way lower light with a A6300 than Any MFT. Sure you can buy a Speed Booster and a 0.95 lens and shoot low light but you Don't Have to buy that for the Sony. And imagine how low of light you could shoot in if you had a SB and a 0.95 lens on it! It is a baby Sony A7s in a sense. 

And I sure as heck so very little low light gain with the GH5 either. But I hope it does, because m4/3 is pretty bad at that. The Oly EM1 mkII did not gain but maybe 1/3 a stop either.

[tomsemiterrific]

8 hours ago, jonpais said:

May I ask what your sharpening and noise reduction settings were in camera?

I used settings for the Standard pic. profile. Contrast -2, Sharpening -2, NR -5, Sat 0

They come from Caleb Pike from DSLR Video Shooter. They are his "out of the camera" settings when he wants to do little to no adjustment in post.

There are Pic. profiles that are lower noise--so I was trying to show a worse case situation.

In the second video I tried to set  up a second candle on the floor to light the background to show the separation of subject to background. The zoom lens was only extended to about 24mms, and you can still see how blurring of the background there was.

[tomsemiterrific]

Third low light test panasonic g85: completely closed shades with sunlight on a completely cloudy day.

 

[tomsemiterrific]

4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

What  both are saying, micah-mahaffey and terozzz  is that you can shot in way lower light with a A6300 than Any MFT. Sure you can buy a Speed Booster and a 0.95 lens and shoot low light but you Don't Have to buy that for the Sony. And imagine how low of light you could shoot in if you had a SB and a 0.95 lens on it! It is a baby Sony A7s in a sense. 

And I sure as heck so very little low light gain with the GH5 either. But I hope it does, because m4/3 is pretty bad at that. The Oly EM1 mkII did not gain but maybe 1/3 a stop either.

If your color looks like crap and your log is a nightmare to grade and your lenses are $$$, and your stabilization is poor and limited, and your manual focus is a catastrophe, it doesn't matter if you can shoot in low light.

I sold my A7sII because I hated the color and S-log is a nightmare, and I was having to pay over a thousand dollars per lens and most did not have stabilization--and had that horrid manual focusing system that makes using muscle memory impossible to use.

Sony bells and whistles are, IMO, like shiny bright things that are meant to distract you from all the faults and failings of Sony cams. My Canon and Panasonic cams are much easier to use, get better results, and they don't make people look like space aliens. And with a metabones EF-MFT and 1.8 Sigma 18-35 you can shoot extremely low light and never have to go above 1600 ISO. Yes, with the Sony you can turn night into day, but the images look freaking weird and unnatural. An amazing parlor trick--but that's all. I'll keep my Canons and Panasonics and XC15 for run and gun...and most importantly, at the end of the day I'll be able to stand looking at the colors in general and skin tones in specific. my 2¢.

[Matthew Robert Mahaffey]

40 minutes ago, tomsemiterrific said:

If your color looks like crap and your log is a nightmare to grade and your lenses are $$$, and your stabilization is poor and limited, and your manual focus is a catastrophe, it doesn't matter if you can shoot in low light.

I sold my A7sII because I hated the color and S-log is a nightmare, and I was having to pay over a thousand dollars per lens and most did not have stabilization--and had that horrid manual focusing system that makes using muscle memory impossible to use.

Sony bells and whistles are, IMO, like shiny bright things that are meant to distract you from all the faults and failings of Sony cams. My Canon and Panasonic cams are much easier to use, get better results, and they don't make people look like space aliens. And with a metabones EF-MFT and 1.8 Sigma 18-35 you can shoot extremely low light and never have to go above 1600 ISO. Yes, with the Sony you can turn night into day, but the images look freaking weird and unnatural. An amazing parlor trick--but that's all. I'll keep my Canons and Panasonics and XC15 for run and gun...and most importantly, at the end of the day I'll be able to stand looking at the colors in general and skin tones in specific. my 2¢.

Do you not feel EOSHD Pro Color is an adequate fix to sony color? 

[mercer]

I don't think Sony color is all that bad. I've had an a6500 and an RX10ii now for a couple weeks and although the menus and the amount of adjustments are a little convoluted, with slight tweaks to sLog2 or the cine profiles and the color seems fine to me. 

Here's a long color test (pardon the sound and occasional focus issue) I did with my RX10ii in sLog2 with some slight tweaks... it still needs some more tweaking but all in all it's getting close for my tastes... and purpose.

 

[tomsemiterrific]

9 minutes ago, Matthew Robert Mahaffey said:

Do you not feel EOSHD Pro Color is an adequate fix to sony color? 

It is an improvement, but it puts a red cast over everything that really bothered me....again, it still made the image look artificial---I finally concluded that it was a valiant attempt to fix the unfixable. I did like the LUT a lot Andrew did for S-log II, but it did not vanquish my thinking that the Sony Logs were the worst and most difficult Log gammas I'd ever tried to work with. Canon C-log is a breeze by comparison. I've never worked with V-Log with a Panasonic, but if I decide to get a GH5 I'll probably end up shooting V-Log on occasion. I do like Andrew's settings and LUT for Panasonic. Believe me, I shot Sony for 8 years...and kept trying to go back, but the difficulty and problems are just not worth it to me when I consider the results--that never really seemed satisfactory. In contrast, there was Panasonic with gave pleasant results--and Canon which was what I had wanted all along...if Canon would only make a Crop sensor with 4k and high bit rates. 

Having said that, in my view the combination of the Panasonic plus the Sigma/Metabones speed booster is admittedly limited, but what it does is really great! What a fantastic lens. Sigma rocks.