A6500 SLog Exposure Trick

[mercer]

I tested my a6500 today for the first time. I'm pretty sure I will be using Cine 2 most of the time, but I was curious about SLog3, even after hearing all the horror stories of using it with an 8-bit codec.

After reading up on it, I was aware that SLog should be exposed by + 1-2 stops with a lot of folks saying 1 2/3 stops is the sweet spot, especially since the meter will not register anything over 2 stops.

So I attached my trusty Minolta 28mm and my strap and headed out with a couple freshly charged batteries and a fader nd filter.

Well, I learned quickly how difficult shooting Slog is on the a6500 in the bright midday sun. Between the darkened 4K screen and flat, muted profile, the LCD is nearly impossible to see. But the real tricky part was holding the + 1 2/3 stop.

I was shooting in an area filled with pockets of bright sun and sky and curtains of shadows. With the camera's meter set to multi, I found that even the slightest move to the left or right and the meter would erratically jump between + 1 stop all the way to the blinking + 2 stops. It did the same with the spot meter. Also with even the slightest of adjustments to the ND filter and the exposure would jump +/- a stop.

And this is where I stumbled upon this little trick. I'm sure a lot of you may be aware of it, but some may not...

I went into the menu and check that I was at 800 ISO and noticed an Auto ISO option with a right arrow to modify settings. Curiously I chose it and surprisingly it allowed me to choose both 800 ISO for the minimum and maximum ISO. Ok... I'll bite.

I then quickly noticed that the camera wanted to keep me at +/- 0 on the meter, so curiously I pressed the exposure compensation button and even though I was using a manual lens from the 1980s, the camera let me compensate exposure to + 1.7 stops, I still had to ride my aperture and/or ND filter, but now the meter would blink as soon as I wasn't at + 1.7 stops and it also seemed to accept the micro adjustments to the filter and/or aperture more smoothly.

This simple little trick made exposing SLog a lot more easier for me.

So after shooting a couple dozen clips, I can see why SLog3 is not recommended with an 8 bit codec, especially when I found the black veil of banding death on any shot that showed a good bit of blue sky in it, but I did manage to get a few good shots and I find the 5-axis IBIS to be as good, if not better, than the Panasonic variant on the GX85. And as long as you don't move too quickly, the RS is pretty much tamed by the IS.

Here are a few shots at my first attempts with the a6500 and SLog3. I just quickly ran it through the FilmConvert standalone app before chopping a little off the front and back of the shot. One shot I left a little wiggle at the beginning of the take to show how the RS reacts to a quick movement with the IS on. Sorry for the poor color correction/grade... and boring rack focuses...

 

[Inazuma]

So your "trick" is that you found auto iso? :p 

[mercer]

Yeah, when you say it like that it doesn't sound all that impressive. And maybe this is just my ignorance but I was surprised you can set the minimum and maximum ISO to the same value but still use exposure compensation with a manual lens to tame the touchy meter or micro adjust the ISO.

[mercer]

I guess I am not explaining myself clear enough. By using auto ISO and exposure compensation in this manner, with manual lenses, you can basically turn the camera's meter into a zebra-like exposure tool that will blink until you set either your aperture or ND filter to the proper setting based on your chosen +/- exposure stop.

[Mattias Burling]

1 hour ago, Inazuma said:

So your "trick" is that you found auto iso? :p 

I understand it as the camera allows the use of exposure comp in manual mode with auto ISO.
If so, that's not exactly common and something people always scream about in comment sections on the rumor sites.
None of my cameras can do it.

Not sure that's what he meant though

[mercer]

21 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I understand it as the camera allows the use of exposure comp in manual mode with auto ISO.
If so, that's not exactly common and something people always scream about in comment sections on the rumor sites.
None of my cameras can do it.

Not sure that's what he meant though

Yes, it does. If you set different values for minimum and maximum, then you can use +/- exposure compensation to hold at your specified stop... obviously the camera is adjusting ISO.

Or you can keep the same value at minimum and maximum, adjust +/- exposure compensation and use the meter to gauge your exposure more precisely because your designated stop will blink until you adjust accordingly.

But when it stops blinking, it seems to hold steadier at that stop than it would without using Auto ISO... so I'm unsure if the meter is just reacting differently with auto ISO on or if it is performing very minute, micro ISO adjustments to keep you there... even though you set the minimum and maximum to the same value.

[Gregormannschaft]

This is a nice trick for when you're moving indoors to outdoors and need to keep the exposure values at roughly the same levels with no fuss. Obviously, the situation I'm talking about requires you to be very flexible with the min/max ISO. 

I'm still a massive fan of the image you can get with SLOG3, it's just a shame that it produces a bit of banding and noise in some shots. Love your use of the old lens as well, vintage lenses + these super sharp sensors are the best.

[Inazuma]

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I understand it as the camera allows the use of exposure comp in manual mode with auto ISO.
If so, that's not exactly common and something people always scream about in comment sections on the rumor sites.
None of my cameras can do it.

Not sure that's what he meant though

True.. now that i think about it i think the Sonys are the only cameras ive used that can do that.  Well, Sony and now Fuji. 

Mercer did you try the SLOG2 profile that i linked you some time ago?

[Stanley]

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I understand it as the camera allows the use of exposure comp in manual mode with auto ISO.
If so, that's not exactly common and something people always scream about in comment sections on the rumor sites.
None of my cameras can do it.

Not sure that's what he meant though

 

3 hours ago, mercer said:

Yes, it does. If you set different values for minimum and maximum, then you can use +/- exposure compensation to hold at your specified stop... obviously the camera is adjusting ISO.

Or you can keep the same value at minimum and maximum, adjust +/- exposure compensation and use the meter to gauge your exposure more precisely because your designated stop will blink until you adjust accordingly.

But when it stops blinking, it seems to hold steadier at that stop than it would without using Auto ISO... so I'm unsure if the meter is just reacting differently with auto ISO on or if it is performing very minute, micro ISO adjustments to keep you there... even though you set the minimum and maximum to the same value.

I'm surprised you could get auto iso at all with a lens like an MD, etc. Was there a menu setting allowing for shooting with such lenses? Good looking footage btw, any exposure changes looked seamless.

[Mattias Burling]

3 minutes ago, Stanley said:

 

I'm surprised you could get auto iso at all with a lens like an MD, etc. Was there a menu setting allowing for shooting with such lenses? Good looking footage btw, any exposure changes looked seamless.

All cameras Im aware of allows shooting with such lenses and auto ISO in aperture priority. And of course they all work in manual but not all cameras allow auto iso in manual.
I guess some older digital cameras wont work but I cant say which once that would be.

[Stanley]

I did't realise they would allow auto iso in aperture priority with a lens like that, so allowing it in manual mode is a bonus (i think) I've never had an a6500 in my hands so I shouldn't sound surprised really. 

[mercer]

3 hours ago, Inazuma said:

True.. now that i think about it i think the Sonys are the only cameras ive used that can do that.  Well, Sony and now Fuji. 

Mercer did you try the SLOG2 profile that i linked you some time ago?

I've only used Auto ISO one othe other time with my D5500 when I borrowed a Sigma 17-50mm for the day. I was shooting in Shutter Priority mode but the D5500 decided to change the ISO values moreso than the aperture, so I turned it off and shot manual. So this is all new to me.

Honestly I don't remember you linking me to an SLog2 profile... Do you still have the link? I'd love to give it a go.

4 hours ago, Gregormannschaft said:

This is a nice trick for when you're moving indoors to outdoors and need to keep the exposure values at roughly the same levels with no fuss. Obviously, the situation I'm talking about requires you to be very flexible with the min/max ISO. 

I'm still a massive fan of the image you can get with SLOG3, it's just a shame that it produces a bit of banding and noise in some shots. Love your use of the old lens as well, vintage lenses + these super sharp sensors are the best.

I've always loved Minolta lenses with Sony cameras, but I am going to pick up that Sigma 30mm 1.4 lens and give the Touch PDAF a go.

Yeah I was actually fairly impressed with SLog3, on tighter shots. With some of my other clips, I threw on an Impulz LUT, adjusted the curves a touch and that was it and the clips looked pretty good.

But the project I am working on now requires a lot of wide shots and I can't risk the banding. My interest in Sony again started by coming across some videos from the FS5... man did I drool over that Raw image... even the in camera 10 bit 1080p looks amazing.

I want to test SLog2 a little more, SLog/G-Film and probably EOS Pro... but most likely I will keep it simple with Cine 2. 

[Gregormannschaft]

33 minutes ago, mercer said:

I've only used Auto ISO one othe other time with my D5500 when I borrowed a Sigma 17-50mm for the day. I was shooting in Shutter Priority mode but the D5500 decided to change the ISO values moreso than the aperture, so I turned it off and shot manual. So this is all new to me.

Honestly I don't remember you linking me to an SLog2 profile... Do you still have the link? I'd love to give it a go.

I've always loved Minolta lenses with Sony cameras, but I am going to pick up that Sigma 30mm 1.4 lens and give the Touch PDAF a go.

Yeah I was actually fairly impressed with SLog3, on tighter shots. With some of my other clips, I threw on an Impulz LUT, adjusted the curves a touch and that was it and the clips looked pretty good.

But the project I am working on now requires a lot of wide shots and I can't risk the banding. My interest in Sony again started by coming across some videos from the FS5... man did I drool over that Raw image... even the in camera 10 bit 1080p looks amazing.

I want to test SLog2 a little more, SLog/G-Film and probably EOS Pro... but most likely I will keep it simple with Cine 2. 

I really loved filming with the SLOG2/GFILM combo and am currently working my way through a travel video edit. Some of the shots are stunning, others are less so, but it's well worth checking out. Absolutely 0 banding so far, which is pretty impressive. Macro blocking is certainly there, but not too badly.

Bought this little Carl Zeiss Flektogon 35mm 2.4 lens a few months back. It's a lovely portrait/macro lens. Not so great for landscape work but low contrast lenses always give such lovely character to the shot. Is the Sigma 30mm native E-mount? 

 

 

[mercer]

13 minutes ago, Gregormannschaft said:

I really loved filming with the SLOG2/GFILM combo and am currently working my way through a travel video edit. Some of the shots are stunning, others are less so, but it's well worth checking out. Absolutely 0 banding so far, which is pretty impressive. Macro blocking is certainly there, but not too badly.

Bought this little Carl Zeiss Flektogon 35mm 2.4 lens a few months back. It's a lovely portrait/macro lens. Not so great for landscape work but low contrast lenses always give such lovely character to the shot. Is the Sigma 30mm native E-mount? 

 

 

Do you have any before or after screengrabs, I'd love to see your results with it. I'm working on a short film that basically takes place entirely in the woods, a sparse pine forest, so I definitely need some DR. I'm going for a soft look similar to this... minus the snow...

I asked the filmmaker what profile he used, but he hasn't replied yet.

The 35mm Flektogon is an amazing lens. I had one a while back but I needed some cash and sold it. It must look great with SLog/GFilm.

[mercer]

@Gregormannschaft yes the Sigma 30mm 1.4 is a native e mount lens. From what I've read and seen, the AF is a touch slower than the Sony lenses but more than fast enough for a smooth rack focus. It also has nice separation with that 3D pop.

3 hours ago, Stanley said:

 

I'm surprised you could get auto iso at all with a lens like an MD, etc. Was there a menu setting allowing for shooting with such lenses? Good looking footage btw, any exposure changes looked seamless.

Thanks, for a first go at SLog3 and coloring SLog, it could have turned out worse.

By keeping the minimum and maximum ISO at the same ISO number, there shouldn't be too much of a change anyway. I stopped using zebras a while ago because the pattern distracts my composition and I found you can get some major exposure differences by relying on zebras... so I started using the in camera meter.

With this little trick, I found it easier to hold the +1.7 stop... because the meter blinks at you when you are not at it.

However, I think the shot of the outhouse has different Auto ISO values... 800 and 1600.

[Gregormannschaft]

21 hours ago, mercer said:

Do you have any before or after screengrabs, I'd love to see your results with it. I'm working on a short film that basically takes place entirely in the woods, a sparse pine forest, so I definitely need some DR. I'm going for a soft look similar to this... minus the snow.

 

Sure thing. These aren't final grades, but should give you a better idea of what the profile is like to work with.

 

 

[Oliver Daniel]

I've been shooting with the A6500 again today on the Zhiyun Crane and also by stealth on the streets (in the latter, I was filming a public stunt for inclusion in a music video). 

It seems to me that the A6500 4k image has some special sauce of something going on - it really is quite a fantastic image for such a tiny camera and low bitrate. I've also seem many more examples online of people getting much better results from the A6300/500 than any of the other A7 cameras. 

The IBIS is also the best I've used in a Sony mirrorless - it's excellent. 

The only issues I have is battery life and rolling shutter, but they are not deal breakers as they are both manageable. 

[mercer]

8 hours ago, Gregormannschaft said:

Sure thing. These aren't final grades, but should give you a better idea of what the profile is like to work with.

 

 

Yeah these look fantastic. Great job. 

[mercer]

5 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I've been shooting with the A6500 again today on the Zhiyun Crane and also by stealth on the streets (in the latter, I was filming a public stunt for inclusion in a music video). 

It seems to me that the A6500 4k image has some special sauce of something going on - it really is quite a fantastic image for such a tiny camera and low bitrate. I've also seem many more examples online of people getting much better results from the A6300/500 than any of the other A7 cameras. 

The IBIS is also the best I've used in a Sony mirrorless - it's excellent. 

The only issues I have is battery life and rolling shutter, but they are not deal breakers as they are both manageable. 

Yeah the battery life is a little disappointing but aftermarket batteries are so cheap and they charge pretty fast, so it's not the end of the world. Obviously the menus are a tad convoluted but it seems Sony is at least starting to organize them a little better. The IBIS really is great and the IQ is just phenomenal. I've only had about an hours of use with mine, but it fixed everything I couldn't take with the a6300. Do you shoot slog2 or 3?