GH5 Lenses

[Rich Merritt]

Hello 

I'm new to M43, I've been shooting with Canons in various forms for many years and have a solid bunch of L glass. 

I had a little play with the GH5 at the BSC show today, seems pretty good and I'm almost hitting the 'Pre-Order' button as we speak. My question is (and I apologise as I realise this must of been brought up a zillion times in the forums but I can't find the answer I'm looking for) shall I stick with Canon glass or start to invest in some M43 lenses? This all hinges on whether Metabones have an adapter that'll work with the stabilised sensor of course.  

I had a little play with the Veydra and SLR Magic primes, both look great. I guess I'm after a set of three or more focal lengths, so not looking for recommendations on vintage or second-hand gear. So, buy some M43 primes or stick with Canon? 

Love to hear your thoughts and apologies again if I'm repeating previous threads. 

Rich

[jonpais]

The in-body stabilization will work great with Canon glass and a Metabones adapter. I would highly recommend investing in some fast micro four thirds primes - they will allow you to work discretely, AF will be faster than adapted lenses, they're much easier to tote around than monstrous glass on a SB, and many are small and light enough to be flown on a single handed gimbal. A few I would suggest are the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 DC DN, the Leica 42.5mm f/1.2, and the Olympus 75mm f/1.8. I personally would avoid lenses slower than f/2 with u4/3. The one exception would be the Olympus 300mm f/4, but I don't shoot nature or sports, so it's not on my radar. So that also rules out all the native zoom lenses. From what I've seen, the Veydras look like an excellent option for filmmaking, but since I'm a street shooter, cinema lenses won't work for me. What kind of shooting do you do?

[webrunner5]

MFT cameras have never been too good at focusing anything but native lenses for them. Only the Sony A7r mkII seems to work great with Canon lenses.

It will be life in the slow lane focus wise. But a lot of people use them. They are hard to give up. But they  have no external focus or aperture ring as you know, so I am not too fond myself in using them.

But MFT cameras are really a great way to go. Small, lots of used lenses, great video on the Panasonic cameras. And some really cheap used ones like the G7. Looks like the GH5 is going to be a very hard camera to beat for the money, even though it is going to go for 2k.

[Flynn]

I saw a chart where it looked like Panasonic is gonna add the Dual IS 2 to all, or at least nearly all, of their stabilized lenses by the end of the year. If the best stabilization the camera can deliver is important to you, might want to look at the stabilized lenses. But many of the nicest lenses don't have stabilization. If you want a three lens kit, what are your ideal focal lengths? I agree with Jon, I'd go with primes and keep it under f2. Are you just looking to use it for video, not stills?

[Inazuma]

I would keep your Canon glass and use the Aputure DEC Regain with it. That adapter is one of my personal reasons why id quite like a sony/m43 system. Its basically a remote follow focus with options to rack freely or set an A/B point and rack to and from. All this plus its a focal reducer

[Thpriest]

I'm a little bit further ahead than you in the transition from Canon to Panasonic. My main reasons are size, weight and IBIS. I have a C100 and it's an amazing camera but it gets really heavy on long run and gun shoots. I have tried a couple of Lumix lenses, 25 1.7 and 42.5 1.7 and whilst the image is nice enough I really don't like the mf feel. It's just plain rubbish. AF is ok if you just don't want it to change focus mid shot. They can't do continuous AF reliably. I bought a SLR Magic 12 1.6 and a Voightlander 25 0.95 secondhand and they really are enjoyable to use. They are all manual but the focus rings are just right in my opinion. They are much heavier than the Lumix lenses but lighter and smaller than the Canons and are designed for the m4/3 cameras. If you don't mind mf they are great and worth testing.

I haven't tried speed booster and Canon lens set up as I don't want the weight which, as I said, is one of the reasons for getting into m4/3.

[noone]

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

MFT cameras have never been too good at focusing anything but native lenses for them. Only the Sony A7r mkII seems to work great with Canon lenses.

It will be life in the slow lane focus wise. But a lot of people use them. They are hard to give up. But they  have no external focus or aperture ring as you know, so I am not too fond myself in using them.

But MFT cameras are really a great way to go. Small, lots of used lenses, great video on the Panasonic cameras. And some really cheap used ones like the G7. Looks like the GH5 is going to be a very hard camera to beat for the money, even though it is going to go for 2k.

Actually, even my old GX7 focuses fast and accurately with Canon lenses and my Kipon adapter.      That is for AFS with my combination but it is a PDAF only camera.

My A7s (also CDAF only) is ok for my uses with Canon lenses and a few different adapters, again it is AFS only and quite slow to focus but useable for some things.

The A6300, A6500, A7Rii and A7ii apparently can all be ok with Canon lenses and adapters and can even use AFC.        Even some manual focus lenses can be used for AFC with a Sigma adapter and the latest Sony cameras it seems.

For video, AF doesn't work on either my A7s or GX7 with Canon lenses adapted.

[Rich Merritt]

Thanks to everyone who replied. Really helpful advice and has helped clarify what I'm looking for. I think the jury is still out on whether the Speedbooster will work with the GH5 stabilised sensor. 

Thpriest, I also use a C100 most of the time. I'm thinking the GH5 would be a good B-Roll cam for doing slow mo which is something I miss at the moment. I love the C100, and I wished Canon would pull their fingers out and catch up spec wise. The SLR Magics are lovely, but I've been thinking that investing in a set that is only M43 might not be the way to go. I guess I want something that's future proof and I can use on Canons and Sony's going forward. 

Noone, the Kipon looks nifty. Is it a speedbooster/focal reducer or just straight through with no glass in it? So if I'm using my 24-70mm it would be a 48-140mm? Does aperture control work on the camera body. 

Inazuma, do you have to use the Regain with that massive dongle on the side? That's a bit of a deal killer for me. How does it do with AF? 

Thanks for the M43 lens recommendations. If I did buy native M43 I'd be after a set from the same manufacturer, fast primes or zooms covering 10mm, 25mm, 40mm and maybe 75mm. 

Rich

 

[noone]

1 hour ago, Rich Merritt said:

Thanks to everyone who replied. Really helpful advice and has helped clarify what I'm looking for. I think the jury is still out on whether the Speedbooster will work with the GH5 stabilised sensor. 

Thpriest, I also use a C100 most of the time. I'm thinking the GH5 would be a good B-Roll cam for doing slow mo which is something I miss at the moment. I love the C100, and I wished Canon would pull their fingers out and catch up spec wise. The SLR Magics are lovely, but I've been thinking that investing in a set that is only M43 might not be the way to go. I guess I want something that's future proof and I can use on Canons and Sony's going forward. 

Noone, the Kipon looks nifty. Is it a speedbooster/focal reducer or just straight through with no glass in it? So if I'm using my 24-70mm it would be a 48-140mm? Does aperture control work on the camera body. 

Inazuma, do you have to use the Regain with that massive dongle on the side? That's a bit of a deal killer for me. How does it do with AF? 

Thanks for the M43 lens recommendations. If I did buy native M43 I'd be after a set from the same manufacturer, fast primes or zooms covering 10mm, 25mm, 40mm and maybe 75mm. 

Rich

 

Kipon is not a focal reducer so your 24-70 will give you 48-140 FF angle of view.      It is a smart adapter so AF(s anyway) and IS works and aperture control is fine (via camera body just as on a Canon camera).

On my older GX7, one issue is that IBIS doesn't work with Canon lenses even if they don't have IS (but IBIS isn't all that great on the GX7 anyway and IS, at least with my APSC kit lens is very good).

The Kipon as it was sold (mine is one of the first) was a bit limited and had a few issues but after a couple of firmware updates it is great.        If the camera is left on it can drain the battery quicker as it is always trying to focus.      It isn't completely silent in focusing but quieter than some of the older screwdrive AF lenses I used to use and not anything annoying for me.

A lens with the kipon is not too dissimilar to the M4/3 Panasonic 20 1.7 lens (that can not be used for AFC on M4/3 cameras either).

I do also have a Lens Turbo focal reducer in M4/3 camera and EF  lens  mount and that is a "dumb" adapter.        I thought until this week (had it for ages), it would only be of use with some third party lenses with mechanical aperture and focus but it turns out that many Canon lenses can be used as many do indeed focus mechanically as well as electronically (many don't).      Previously I thought only my 17 TS-E with mechanical focus would be usable wide open but my APSC kit lens and Sigma 150 2.8 also can be used as can my EF 100 f2.

The Lens Turbo's are pretty cheap and might be worth trying to see if you want a proper Speed Booster smart adapter.

You can only shoot with the Lens Turbo wide open though (where the third party lenses like the Samyang's do come into it).

I find the Kipon to be a fantastic piece of kit for stills IF you want to use multiple formats or have lots of Canon lenses you want t keep while using M4/3 cameras.

The Metabones smart adapters (there are focal reducers and non focal reducers) might be a bit better but cost more.      Some combinations of camera/adapter/lens work better than others.     Both Metabones and Kipon smart adapters have micro USB ports for updates.

 

One lens I love with the Kipon and GX7 is the little 40 2.8 STM.

[sgreszcz]

1 hour ago, Rich Merritt said:

Thanks to everyone who replied. Really helpful advice and has helped clarify what I'm looking for. I think the jury is still out on whether the Speedbooster will work with the GH5 stabilised sensor. 

Thpriest, I also use a C100 most of the time. I'm thinking the GH5 would be a good B-Roll cam for doing slow mo which is something I miss at the moment. I love the C100, and I wished Canon would pull their fingers out and catch up spec wise. The SLR Magics are lovely, but I've been thinking that investing in a set that is only M43 might not be the way to go. I guess I want something that's future proof and I can use on Canons and Sony's going forward. 

Noone, the Kipon looks nifty. Is it a speedbooster/focal reducer or just straight through with no glass in it? So if I'm using my 24-70mm it would be a 48-140mm? Does aperture control work on the camera body. 

Inazuma, do you have to use the Regain with that massive dongle on the side? That's a bit of a deal killer for me. How does it do with AF? 

Thanks for the M43 lens recommendations. If I did buy native M43 I'd be after a set from the same manufacturer, fast primes or zooms covering 10mm, 25mm, 40mm and maybe 75mm. 

Rich

 

I've recently switched to two Panasonic GX80s.  For indoor, full manual, more static work I've started using a couple of voigtlander 17.5 and 42.5 lenses that I picked up second hand. I find them a bit front-heavy with the GX80 body and hard on the wrists due to the non-existent grip.  The image does look pretty nice though for stills and video and they are lovely to manually focus.  I just wish you could punch-in the focus view while recording.  Before recording, it is great as I just click the rear wheel and get the magnified focus with peaking.  Also the in-body stabilisation works pretty good with those primes.

I also have the Panasonic Leica 15/1.7 lens which I love and is always on my camera when I'm going out.  I'm thinking of matching it with the P42.5/1.7 for the other body as I mostly use manual focusing, but sometimes I like to "cheat" with the AF-S to lock focus as it can be a challenge with the small EVF.  I do own the Panasonic 12-35/2.8 and 35-100/2.8 lenses, but I'm thinking of selling them and getting the new Panasonic Leica 12-60/2.8-4 on a GH5 when it comes out to use as a one-camera outdoor event-type lens.

I'm still considering someday upgrading to the PL12/1.4 and the PL42.5/1.2 but I'd probably need to sell off my voigtlanders to fund them.

Lots of good choices in M43-land!

[jonpais]

6 hours ago, sgreszcz said:

I've recently switched to two Panasonic GX80s.  For indoor, full manual, more static work I've started using a couple of voigtlander 17.5 and 42.5 lenses that I picked up second hand. I find them a bit front-heavy with the GX80 body and hard on the wrists due to the non-existent grip.  The image does look pretty nice though for stills and video and they are lovely to manually focus.  I just wish you could punch-in the focus view while recording.  Before recording, it is great as I just click the rear wheel and get the magnified focus with peaking.  Also the in-body stabilisation works pretty good with those primes.

I also have the Panasonic Leica 15/1.7 lens which I love and is always on my camera when I'm going out.  I'm thinking of matching it with the P42.5/1.7 for the other body as I mostly use manual focusing, but sometimes I like to "cheat" with the AF-S to lock focus as it can be a challenge with the small EVF.  I do own the Panasonic 12-35/2.8 and 35-100/2.8 lenses, but I'm thinking of selling them and getting the new Panasonic Leica 12-60/2.8-4 on a GH5 when it comes out to use as a one-camera outdoor event-type lens.

I'm still considering someday upgrading to the PL12/1.4 and the PL42.5/1.2 but I'd probably need to sell off my voigtlanders to fund them.

Lots of good choices in M43-land!

I'll be getting rid of my two Panny Vario zooms soon myself, but I would never sell them to buy an even slower zoom, but that's just me. Keep your lenses and pick up the Olympus  Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, it's superb! And to anyone else considering the Panny 42.5mm f/1.7 because the Nocticron is crazy expensive, I'd strongly recommend having a look at the Zuiko instead.

8 hours ago, Rich Merritt said:

Thanks to everyone who replied. Really helpful advice and has helped clarify what I'm looking for. I think the jury is still out on whether the Speedbooster will work with the GH5 stabilised sensor. 

Thpriest, I also use a C100 most

of the time. I'm thinking the GH5 would be a good B-Roll cam for doing slow mo which is something I miss at the moment. I love the C100, and I wished Canon would pull their fingers out and catch up spec wise. The SLR Magics are lovely, but I've been thinking that investing in a set that is only M43 might not be the way to go. I guess I want something that's future proof and I can use on Canons and Sony's going forward. 

Noone, the Kipon looks nifty. Is it a speedbooster/focal reducer or just straight through with no glass in it? So if I'm using my 24-70mm it would be a 48-140mm? Does aperture control work on the camera body. 

Inazuma, do you have to use the Regain with that massive dongle on the side? That's a bit of a deal killer for me. How does it do with AF? 

Thanks for the M43 lens recommendations. If I did buy native M43 I'd be after a set from the same manufacturer, fast primes or zooms covering 10mm, 25mm, 40mm and maybe 75mm. 

Rich

First of all, the jury is not still out on whether the MB SB will work with the GH5: Mr. Neumann has already tested the MB and it does work with the GH5. And even if the XL were able to work perfectly with IBIS disabled, why would I want that anyway? There are no fast native zooms covering the ranges of focal lengths you mention. Any reason why they must all be by the same manufacturer? Or are you solely interested in cinema lenses? What exactly will you be shooting?

 

[Rich Merritt]

Thanks Noone for the Kipon info, I will have to check it out. I did a bit more research last night and I'm guessing the Leica lenses are Panasonic's equivalent to Canon's L Series, would you guys agree? 

Thanks for the video Jonpais, I had watched a few of his videos but not actually seen his one. I presume he's using IBIS but I can't see it stated in the comments. 

I noticed in the video comments that people mention vignetting if using a lens at 18mm on the Speedbooster. Could someone explain why this would happen, as I thought the whole point of the Speedbooster was that it takes an image from the lens and shrinks it down to M43 size?  Why would vignetting appear? Does this mean I couldn't use the Canon 17-40mm? 

There are three uses for the camera I'm thinking of...

If I'm using the GH5 as a B-Roll Camera on a video shoot I'd need to use Canon glass on a Speedbooster to match other cameras. 

Just shooting video on the GH5, I'd need a good focal range of fast visually matched glass, so all from the same manufacturer most likely. 

Thirdly, using it as a stills camera I'd like wide aperture zooms with fast AF.  

Again, thanks for all the comments. Really helping find my way through the rabbit hole I've found myself in. 

Rich

 

[jonpais]

2 hours ago, Rich Merritt said:

Thanks Noone for the Kipon info, I will have to check it out. I did a bit more research last night and I'm guessing the Leica lenses are Panasonic's equivalent to Canon's L Series, would you guys agree? 

Thanks for the video Jonpais, I had watched a few of his videos but not actually seen his one. I presume he's using IBIS but I can't see it stated in the comments. 

I noticed in the video comments that people mention vignetting if using a lens at 18mm on the Speedbooster. Could someone explain why this would happen, as I thought the whole point of the Speedbooster was that it takes an image from the lens and shrinks it down to M43 size?  Why would vignetting appear? Does this mean I couldn't use the Canon 17-40mm? 

There are three uses for the camera I'm thinking of...

If I'm using the GH5 as a B-Roll Camera on a video shoot I'd need to use Canon glass on a Speedbooster to match other cameras. 

Just shooting video on the GH5, I'd need a good focal range of fast visually matched glass, so all from the same manufacturer most likely. 

Thirdly, using it as a stills camera I'd like wide aperture zooms with fast AF.  

Again, thanks for all the comments. Really helping find my way through the rabbit hole I've found myself in. 

Rich

 

But remember, the XL is probably not going to play well with the GH5 anyway, so the Ultra will probably be the way to go.

[Stanley]

Horses for courses I suppose, but I don’t see much interest concerning the 100-300mm ver 2 lenses for video, or the 100-400mm firmware update, and how they will behave with 5 axis dual IS on sticks. I must say the expected pricing on the 100-300mm ver 2, isn’t all that different to the current version’s price, and although looking much the same, it’s supposedly weather sealed as well. The current 100-300mm is a real vacuum cleaner when it comes to dust and particles, but is a gem of a lens with its image quality, and shows very little banding in the skies, or noise even on the very noisy GH2, but I put that down to being made in Japan, so I hope the ver 2 is also made in Japan. I don’t know where the current 100-400mm is made, there’s good feedback out there amongst Olympus and Pana stills photographers, but I don’t see much feedback for it with video. I’ve been tempted to buy the current 100- 400mm, as size really counts as far as I’m concerned, but I don’t know if it plays funny buggers with IS on sticks, and whether I’d be looking at getting an even beefier head to handle 400mm if it does play up. Anyway there will be some cheap 100-300 version 1 lenses on the market in a few months’ time, just make sure they’re not dusty ones if you’re tempted.

[noone]

GX7 with Sigma 150 2.8 APO macro and Kipon smart adapter.  

Nothing special, just from a morning walk (was a bit early for the GX7 for me as I usually take the FF camera and start long before dawn).

AFS used.     Jpegs as taken (resized to fit only).

 

[Yuan]

These 3 comparison articles were the biggest influences for me when choosing what lenses to get for the m43 system:

Voitglanders:

http://www.thehurlblog.com/cinematography-micro-43-lenses/

Panasonic Leica:

http://www.thehurlblog.com/cinematography-online-micro-four-thirds-lenses/

Olympus:

http://www.thehurlblog.com/film-school-online-micro-43-lenses-3/

 

I went for PanaLeica. But if I mainly shot landscape, I would've went for Olympus. If I was shooting purely for a cinematic look, I would have chosen the Voiglanders.

 

 

[Rich Merritt]

Thanks. I shall have a read of those.

Do you guys look at DXO lens ratings? A video I watched pointed to their website and now I've realised that even the Canon glass I've got isn't all that great. The Sigma 16-35 and 50-100 come out on top for full frame. For me, the 50-100 is a really weird focal length and not something I'd use. 

For M43 the PanLeica 42.5 gets the highest mark, but it scores really badly on chromatic aberration. Same with the PanLeica 25. Any experience from you guys on this? 

So my current thinking, which I admit changes almost every 5 minutes, is that I should spend the money on good full frame glass that will have a longer life in terms of what I do and the cameras I mostly use. Obviously, I'll have to sacrifice AF speed and Dual IS. 

Rich

 

[jonpais]

1 hour ago, Rich Merritt said:

Thanks. I shall have a read of those.

Do you guys look at DXO lens ratings? A video I watched pointed to their website and now I've realised that even the Canon glass I've got isn't all that great. The Sigma 16-35 and 50-100 come out on top for full frame. For me, the 50-100 is a really weird focal length and not something I'd use. 

For M43 the PanLeica 42.5 gets the highest mark, but it scores really badly on chromatic aberration. Same with the PanLeica 25. Any experience from you guys on this? 

So my current thinking, which I admit changes almost every 5 minutes, is that I should spend the money on good full frame glass that will have a longer life in terms of what I do and the cameras I mostly use. Obviously, I'll have to sacrifice AF speed and Dual IS. 

Rich

 

The photographers and filmmakers I respect most, photographers who have experience with hundreds of lenses by many manufacturers. are willing to accept a small degree (or even a bunch) of chromatic aberration in exchange for other qualities in a lens. Apparently, some of the most coveted lenses in the world suffer from chromatic aberration. Even the $11,000.00 USD Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 ASPH has some purple fringing. I've posted numerous tests of the Leica Nocticron already and not a single viewer mentioned seeing any chromatic aberration. Maybe the content was so great, nobody noticed.  

Anyhow, I'm currently of the opinion that using a SB and huge lenses with micro four thirds bodies, (particularly zooms which have a very minimal range like the Sigma 18-35, as great as it is), defeats the whole reason for micro four thirds. When Voigtlander started producing their marvelous Noktons, there were very few fast primes available for the u4/3 system. That situation is changing rapidly. So being able to mount a Leica 12mm f/1.4, an Olympus 25mm f/1.2, the Sigma 30mm f/1.4, a Leica 42.5mm f/1.2, or even the incredible Olympus 75mm f/1.8 on my G85 makes it increasingly unlikely I'll ever be using my MB SB again, which is why I'm thinking of selling off all my Canon mount glass. For any given shoot, I seldom use more than two lenses, but matching the colors of two primes by different manufacturers is not rocket science. In fact, I think anybody could do it, and I pretty much suck at color correction. 

I don't understand the concept of future proof. As far as I'm concerned, APS-C is the future. For you, full frame might be the future. For others, medium format might signal the future.

I'm not even sure why someone would go from a full frame sensor to micro four thirds, only to be saddled down with a bunch of huge, genormous glass. It defeats the whole point of having a compact system. It really is great to go out with nothing but a G85 and the Olympus 75mm or Sigma 30mm DC DN, it's like I'm not carrying anything at all. Try walking around all day with a Sigma 50mm f/1.4 and MB SB, and your neck will be sore. And this is speaking as someone who is used to lugging around a 4 Kg tripod half the time.

If nothing else, I hope that's food for thought. I understand your pain.  

Edit: I thought the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 was APS-C, but you say it comes out on top for full frame, so I'm confused!

[Jimmy]

Has any had experience with the 25mm f1.7 lumix?

[jonpais]

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

Has any had experience with the 25mm f1.7 lumix?

How is this relevant to the discussion at hand?