The Leica SL as upgrade for Sony A7R II shooters

[Andrew Reid]

No religious talk on this forum, thank you.

[Borbarad]

3 hours ago, Eno said:

@Andrew Reid,

The info is from the internet:

The sensor and processing units are definitely made by Panasonic: http://leicarumors.com/2015/08/13/the-sensor-inside-the-leica-q-typ-116-is-most-likely-produced-by-towerjazz-an-israeli-semiconductor-manufacturer-with-tight-relations-to-panasonic.aspx/

hence the similarities with the GH4 like the V-LOG format, codec, AF, bit rates etc.

The zoom lenses are made by Panasonic: http://leicarumors.com/2016/08/17/leica-apo-vario-elmarit-sl-90-280mm-f2-8-4-lens-designed-by-panasonic.aspx/

The 4.4 M dot LCD is made by Epson: https://***URL removed***/articles/7963916751/epson-mass-produces-4-41m-dot-lcd

 

Of course I may be wrong about origin of the SL1... But the viewfinder is definitely NOT 4.4 MP but 4.4 M dots or 1,46 MP and the crop factors in 4K and DCI are as a wrote.

Lot of wrong stuff in one single post. Leica Hater by the way?

1.) The viewfinder is 4.4MP  with a 1280×1024 pixel resolution and the Panel is Epson. The optics, design etc. is by Leica.

2.) The lenses/optics are made and designed by Leica. Panasonic has made the design specifications in regards to Zoom Function and Video AF. That's why it's a joint venture. The whole AF System/ Motor  and how the elements are moving is a Leica own design.

3) The video functions has been designed mainly by Panasonic and Leica bought also the Vlog knowledge - very similar to the GH4. This has first off all nothing to do with the Sensor.

 

But its fun to read Leica bashing....

 

B

 

 

[Daniel J]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Unless you need AF for video, which by that I mean the 1D X Mark II is literally the only good choice, then you will be manually focussing. Therefore you are going to be using the same Canon lenses on the Leica SL as you would be on the GH5 with Speed Booster or any number of other standard lens mounts.

The SL lenses are incredibly expensive as I mentioned in the blog post, I am not tempted by any of them unless the used price of the 24-90 comes down to something sane! Having said that they are absolutely on the cutting edge of mirrorless optics.

 

Even if the SL lenses drop to a quarter of the price, they're still fly-by wire, so not ideal for video....the M lenses seem a better fit, but even then- add a few grand more and the cooke mini's become even more tempting

 

[Borbarad]

17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

What do you upgrade to once you get bored of Sony and Panasonic?

I went to find out.

Read the full blog here

Nice read!

The Leica SL is one of the best designed 35mm bodies of all time (borrows a lot from the S System). I'm always torn about to buy or not to buy. However,  I'm an Leica M user (and the M10 is just so damn sexy..... just waiting for the P version) and my second camera is the GH4 soon to be replaced by the GH5.

But again the SL body is just brilliant and the crystal clear EVF is the best by lightyears. I also cannot understand the success of the Sony. Yes the sensors are great , but everything else form handling, usability and durability is.... plainly awful ....  a 299,- of the shelf horror design.

What definitely will be interesting is the next SL in about 2 years! That could be a killer if Leica gets their hands on the GH5 stuff.

In the meantime we will see the next S, a major upgrade.

B

[photographer-at-large]

about its durability:

https://scenictraverse.com/blog/2017/1/8/to-hell-and-back-how-durable-is-the-leica-sl

[Borbarad]

14 minutes ago, photographer-at-large said:

about its durability:

https://scenictraverse.com/blog/2017/1/8/to-hell-and-back-how-durable-is-the-leica-sl

Yep. Exactly how the camera feels and handles.

About the black color: It's brassing like the M with the difference that it doesn't look that nice. Thats why I would prefer a black chrome version of the SL.

But I might been in once the SL MKII is out... now im still hesitating 

B

[photographer-at-large]

What are the chances SL Mk. II will have IBIS?

[Borbarad]

1 hour ago, photographer-at-large said:

What are the chances SL Mk. II will have IBIS?

IBIS would be a total surprise based on my Leica Experience, or: the chances will be very slim.

 

B

[tugela]

9 hours ago, Eno said:

Some corrections @Andrew Reid,

The SL1 EVF is NOT 4,4 MP but 4,4 million dots or 1,46 MP and it's made by Epson (not in Germany that's for sure).

"How does the 4K do vs the 1D X Mark II? It’s very good. However just like the 1D X II this is approximately a 1.4x crop of the full frame sensor." The crop factor is NOT 1,4x as you said but something like 1,56x in 4K UHD and 1,46x in 4K DCI.

And by the way, the whole camera is made by Panasonic in Japan not physically in Germany by Leica.

How do you arrive at 1.46MP from 4.4 million pixels? It is an LCD, not a CRT.

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Also the sensor and image processor are custom designs which Leica had a heavy input into.

 

I doubt Leica designed anything about those chips, it is not their field of expertise. They may have provided specs, or chosen from a list of available specs, but the design would have been purely from the vendor. That is how it works with those sorts of business arrangements.

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

I have had this lens in my hands. It says Made in Germany on the body.

 

 

I have had this lens in my hands. It says Made in Germany on the body.

 

All that means is that it was assembled in Germany. Who knows where the components were made, likely it was not Germany because it is cheaper to have those manufactured in other places.

[Mattias Burling]

Alot of electronics is made in Germany. Just look at the iphone. Its designed in the US and assembled in china.

But the majority of the iphones components and profit comes and goes from Germany, Japan and South Korea.

[Andrew Reid]

Japan and Germany are both top-teir manufacturing countries with the best and most advanced skills and factories.

Even if it is thought of as a full frame Panasonic GH5 with Leica's ergonomic design and custom lens mount, that's fine by me.

A lot of Leica's best lenses were made in Canada any way  Noctilux among them.

[Andrew Reid]

Regarding the EVF

It is 4.4m dots (RGB), not Pixels as stated by Leica themselves on their website (cmd-f 'EyeRes viewfinder' http://us.leica-camera.com/Corposite/Photography/Leica-SL/Details)

It is 1400 x 1050 so Eno is right about 1.45 megapixel.

That's nearly double the 0.7 megapixel (approx 2.36 million dot) resolution EVF in the Sony A7R II and Fuji X-T2.

The panel size for the Leica SL EVF is 0.66 inch compared to the usual 0.48 inch and 0.5" of Sony and Fuji.

I am hearing great things about the Panasonic GH5 3.68m dot EVF though.

The Leica Q also appears to have that same panel with 3.68m dots and since it is a smaller viewfinder the picture is even sharper to the eye than the Leica SL, and I'd give it the edge for contrast as well. Looking through the Leica Q EVF gives you an insane 3D effect to the 28mm lens and really nice colour, way better than the LCD on the back.

[tugela]

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

Alot of electronics is made in Germany. Just look at the iphone. Its designed in the US and assembled in china.

But the majority of the iphones components and profit comes and goes from Germany, Japan and South Korea.

That is misleading because while modules might be sold be a particular company they might actually be made in part or in full somewhere else. For example, if an iPhone was used as component in a larger machine, it would be listed as a "US" product simply because Apple is a US company, even though almost all of it is made somewhere else.

[mat33]

This was recorded on the SL in 4K DCI L-log and a Pix-E5H recorder.

The SL is an interesting beast if you want good video and stills.  Only downsides I can see are $ and that if you want AF then the native lens are big and expensive. While its expensive, Lecia tend to hold their resale value so if you look at total cost of ownership, it may end not being too bad.

I for one would much rather have the SL body only than a Sony + lens.  

[independent]

The lowlight is very good? I heard the opposite. I'm curious how it compares to the 1DX II if you still have both models. The high iso/low light on my 1DX II looked remarkably film-like and organic; the noise structure looks more analog than digital. I imagine the Sony A7S II to have the clearest image in the low light, but even then it doesn't quite shed its digital look. 

[wolf33d]

9 hours ago, Eno said:

@Andrew Reid,

"What does God have to do with it you lunatic?"

I think only Him can have an "absolute proof" about anything really.

It is wise no to start with personal insults cause you'll lose credibility.

Well bring me proof he exists, cause I am pretty sure he does not.

[Mattias Burling]

7 hours ago, tugela said:

That is misleading because while modules might be sold be a particular company they might actually be made in part or in full somewhere else. For example, if an iPhone was used as component in a larger machine, it would be listed as a "US" product simply because Apple is a US company, even though almost all of it is made somewhere else.

No these are the correct figures. If you have others showing how they are missleading please present them.

All I did was remind people that alot, and I mean alot of electronics are made in Japan and Germany. And it is very important in discussions regarding products like Leica where there is no end to people talking about money.

They always seems to forget the very simple rule. You get what you pay for.

[mat33]

I'm surprised the SL isn't getting more interest on here - imo is a pretty sexy looking camera.

 

[aly324]

I've used a number of Leica M, R, and S bodies and lenses. Now I shoot stills with an S 007, and videos with a Sony FS7 and A7Sii. I would love for the next S to be upgraded for video. (Someone above mentioned an upcoming one, but that's really based on one poorly translated sentence from an interview with Leica CEO and I think not reliable.) Before that I'm also considering an SL as sort of a combination of the S and the A7S ii. It'd be nice to be able to carry one body instead of two. But after using the S, I don't think the SL's photo quality will suffice for me.

In my mind there's little doubt that Leica gear is overpriced (especially when bought at retail prices) relative to performance. At the same time, the merits and aesthetic qualities of Leica glass + processing cannot be fully captured by DXOmark and other quantitative metrics that naysayers tend to cite. For me the richness and subtlety of the colors are always what strike me. Zeiss glass is sharp, Canon and Nikon glass are sharp, but the colors aren't the same. Increasing the saturation or vibrancy in post doesn't yield the same results.

This is definitely subjective, and much harder to pin down than "sharpness" and even bokeh. But the difference is there in the images, and becomes very noticeable if you use the equipment over a long period. I don't think it's about irrational love for a brand or Leica mythology at all.

[Laurier]

What I wonder is why would anyone buy the leica SL if you are going to mainly use it for video.
For that price you can get a fully equipped ursa mini 4.6k or a scarlet mx , or even a epic mx brain.

Andrew Reid, I feel you have a severe gear acquisition syndrome .

Also I would really like to see what you actually do with your equipement, I mean I get that you are reviewing a lot of stuff ...but I always  wondered what you are actually shooting as I never saw anything beside test footage.

To be honest your forum was super instructive about the DIY anamorphic stuff and a lot of people around here are very nice, and I really enjoyed reading your articles.
But as I myself grow professionally, I started to have doubt about the depth of your reviews.

And this article IMO is really showing that, stating What do you upgrade to once you get bored of Sony and Panasonic? kinda make me sad, because it s seems like your motivation toward gear is not to produce work with it but just use them as a toy, and that really kill all the seriousness of it.