Super Members Mattias Burling Posted February 13, 2017 Super Members Share Posted February 13, 2017 Its no surprise really imo. When a brand like Blackmagic or such is delayed its understandable. But Nikon... then it sound like trouble. Apparently they took a big hit financially as well. Its a shame, I was hopping for it to be an easy choice instead of the RX100x or LX15. http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/off-brand-news-nikon-cancels-dl-camera-release-releases-worrying-financial-report/ The whole thing has me thinking of something I've been asking myself since before Samsung pulled the plug. Which camera brands will disappear? Because I don't believe for a second that the market is bi enough for all the players currently offering premium and interchangeable lens cameras. I don't think Samsung was the last. My guess is (and this is not based on anything but a feeling) that Pentax will ditch interchangeable and focus on their premium compacts. Panasonic might go down if the GH5 doesn't take off. The m4/3 system all together needs to face Fuji X head on. Sony and Canon I think are safe. Leica is as profitable as ever so no issues there. I guess similar niche companies will make it. What do you guys think? Disclaimer: I know how many of these threads end up so, Speculating is fine and fun, no need to get aggravated and start throwing numbers at each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Nikon is very tough because of their legacy and dSLR sales, which -even though a lot of us consider them relics of the past- still sell more than mirrorless cameras, and I take a D750 everyday for pro photo work instead of any mirrorless Sony, and most of my pro photo friends did actually. If they don't make a bold mirrorless move soon though, then they will be left behind and Sony will eat up their sales quite soon and quite a bit,especially with the A7 mark III series of camera that supposed to be imminent. If Sony screw up once more (pro ergonomics, power capacity, heat management) then Nikon gets a few more years, but they do not seem to have the Fuji reflexes, to adapt to the new hybrid age. Best Nikon solution? Give everything they got for a NX1 Nikon. Take the best of the Samsung and the best of D500 and make a 2500€ camera with IBIS, I would buy that in an instance. Samsung has 15fps with a 28mgpxl sensor, and Nikon had to go to 20mpxls to compete with that, and still.. As of video, with a better H265 codec NX1 Nikon can be the best video camera together with the GH5. Add to all these no overheating, best touch screen implementation and wifi/bluetooth on the industry (while Nikon advertised it much but noy that good real world results), ergonomics, battery consumption, oled screens and brilliant EVF (I am sure after 3 years+ they can have a better one), Nikon lenses, colour science and a huge NIKON logo in front and you have an instant success. The DL series didn't seem very competitive as it was, they need a better (more retro-modern design as well) compact line, better make it full frame, and they have to up their video game. Newer generations need exceptional video on a compact camera, and when I say newer gen, I mean everyone under 50! m4/3 is everywhere, even in DJI, with a variable sensor a la LS300 (my opinion is that the GH5 with such a sensor would have been the best hybrid ever made) they can go to 2020 easily, but the small sensor right now has reached its limits (no big DR and ISO improvement from GH4 to GH5, if any) and having only 20mgpxls on this tiny sensor isn't the best cropping solution around. Fuji listens, we like them, I expect them to produce the best APS-C camera soon, and they are going medium format, who needs full frame then?!! The quiting of Samsung save them a big chunck of their pie and a relief, as 3 years ago they were clearly far behind Samsung (and this was very well documentated in various interviews from back then) and they didn't have the tech and resources to compete. Pentax and the rest, I do not know, unfortunately they aren't in my radar. Canon is Canon, eventually they will produce a pro mirrorless that will sell 80% of the mirrorless sales of that year, and a C100markII that we all have to buy! If they make mistakes though, Sony can overcome them as well, but it will take a few camera generations, and Canon to fail completely to see the near future. Everything is possible, I just would love to see this advanced Nikon FNX1!! Marco Tecno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Hmm, I don't know. But if Nikon made a Full Frame Camera with a 4:3 aspecto Ratio 36x28 sensor, with a few leafshutter lenses, and some good 4K you can pull stills from (Compressed raw) a good body and they would position themselfs in the pro market they started to entre with the d800 but will lose to the A7rX and the new Medium Format cameras. The AF has to be top. Oh, and a bright 1:1 opticalviewfinder,not that tiny crappy thing they have right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff CB Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 As someone who was a Nikon shooter for a LONG time and was looking forward to the 18-50 this is very disappointing. wolf33d, Flynn and leeys 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I don't really believe Nikon is going to survive. They have most of their assets in Photography, even their Steppers are mostly camera output related. DSLRs are nearly dinosours in this day and age. And that is the majority of their supply. And they are not burning up the market with great video specs either. Video is THE thing now and they suck ass in it. And this is their 100th Anniversity year and they have no money, great! What they bring out this year, new D810, new D750 both DSLRs, are hard to predict. They had better be the best thing since sliced bread, or might as well not even bother. I would sure hate to see them go, but they will I think, along with Pentax. Two of the first camera brands I ever owned a LONG time ago, over 50 years. Smartphones are killing all of them off. But amazing what power we have in our pockets now, just Amazing. Marco Tecno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Fun thread idea. I personally don't think Nikon as a brand will go anywhere. As an outsider looking in and owning both a nikon dslr and a film camera...I think nikon has a ton of LEGACY backing it. As of 2017 though, they are not keeping up the way other brands like Sony and Panasonic are spec wise. In terms of video if I HAD the money I would go for something with IBIS, 4k, great autofocus and a flat profile. I think with nikon they just need to asses the market and figure out if they are gonna cater to video in a more competitive way than they do now. If they DON'T then they will be in trouble but I don't think they will completely go away as their photography division obviously still makes money. Just my thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted February 13, 2017 Author Super Members Share Posted February 13, 2017 Nikons biggest problem I suspect is Canon. Like it or not but Canon easily outsells all the others. With old models. Panasony is bleading money in development without really taking of. Canon can take their sweet time and still stay in the green. Ironically Fuji is kept alive with film. And their Instax film division is currently the best selling cameras. Not best selling film cameras. But all together. Fuji Instax Film cameras outsell Canon. With lesser profit per unit of course. But still... Dustin and leeys 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Well as much money Samsung has and they bailed out having a killer camera like the NX1. They saw something down the road and cut their losses quick. No business can look to the future and see loss year after year and think staying is not stupid. Nikon knows they are in deep trouble yet like Kodak no one is too big to fail in the photo industry. And Nikon is really not that big. Gun scopes, spotting scopes, binoculars aren't going to save them. There just is not that many high end photo shooters left anymore to buy their stuff. Even the D5 is not a runaway success they hoped for. Now the D500 maybe was a surprise for them. But they keep lowering the price on it, not too good of a sign. I'll be honest their quality control lately is not much to write home about. The D750, D800 had a lot of problems high end stuff should never have. That is their Pro stuff, not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiliskFilm Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 No point being last to market, unless you offer a lot more than competitors. Canon persist with their mirrorless offering, but they don't really look that serious. Apart from VR cameras, there is not much that is radically different that the big boys can break through with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted February 13, 2017 Author Super Members Share Posted February 13, 2017 Canons mirrorless is imho so underrated its almost not funny. The pictures I get from the original and super cheap EOS M + 22mm are just lovley. With ML its a great street shooter/pocket camera. Its gm1 size with APS-C and a 35mm equivalent and 19mp. Panasony cant touch that. Samsung almost could, but we know how that went. The M3 was also very capable and the M5 seems very legit according to some reviewers who's opinions I trust. Again, talking about stills. No 4K but I could care less about that in a stills camera, image is king for me, not resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted February 13, 2017 Administrators Share Posted February 13, 2017 It seemed like when Nikon released the D750 and D810 they were on a roll and then THUD rolled into a ditch. They have done nothing interesting for 3 years. And between the D5300 and D-whatever they are on now, also nothing interesting. GoPro rival was a joke... Released just as the action cam market was over the hill... Yet to give the whole show to it at Photokina last year smacks of management issues too. Nikon could have entered the cinema market, they have the optics, sensors, everything... They could have gone into high end mirrorless market, the brand is stronger than Sony. Didn't... didn't... didn't. They won't survive like this... They are taking zero risks. webrunner5, iamoui, hansel and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted February 13, 2017 Author Super Members Share Posted February 13, 2017 Its a shame about their action cameras as well. I played a little with them a week ago. They are very nice, awesome build. Definitely cool cameras. But just like everyone else and their mom I bought a Gopro 5 years ago and dont need a new system because of my dog harness, car mount, stick, etc. To late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted February 13, 2017 Administrators Share Posted February 13, 2017 Just like with the DL In the time it took Nikon not to bring out the DL, Sony brought out 5 RX100 models. wolf33d 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 22 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: Canons mirrorless is imho so underrated its almost not funny. The pictures I get from the original and super cheap EOS M + 22mm are just lovley. With ML its a great street shooter/pocket camera. Its gm1 size with APS-C and a 35mm equivalent and 19mp. Panasony cant touch that. Samsung almost could, but we know how that went. The M3 was also very capable and the M5 seems very legit according to some reviewers who's opinions I trust. Again, talking about stills. No 4K but I could care less about that in a stills camera, image is king for me, not resolution. The EOS M actually produces nice video (and I do care about resolution, but not obsessively): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: They have done nothing interesting for 3 years. Well I think the D500 is far and away the best Birder camera out there. And now with price drops are a no brainer to buy. Other than maybe the Olympus EM1 mkII nothing close to it. hansel and mercer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Well I think the D500 is far and away the best Birder camera out there. And now with price drops are a no brainer to buy. Other than maybe the Olympus EM1 mkII nothing close to it. Yup, the D500 was listed, by multiple review sites, as the best camera of 2016. As a video camera, there are better choices, but every video I have seen from it looks pretty damn good... if only it had focus peaking and a smaller 4K crop. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted February 13, 2017 Author Super Members Share Posted February 13, 2017 28 minutes ago, markr041 said: The EOS M actually produces nice video (and I do care about resolution, but not obsessively): I agree 100%. Raw video as well. I usualy use the x2 bitrate. x3 keeps freezing on me 42 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Just like with the DL In the time it took Nikon not to bring out the DL, Sony brought out 5 RX100 models. Yes but to be fair, Sony releases a new camera every hour or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I just got into shooting film last year with my Olympus OM2N and Nikon One-Touch compact 35mm 2.8. The olympus is one I will never sell because I grew up watching my father shoot one. I would HATE for Nikon to go the way of being a heirloom or something we talk about as a brand that USED to be. Nikon definitely needs to do SOMETHING fresh. Either in the film route or video route. As a film shooter I would love to see more film options but the instax mini is a fun camera when used with black and white film. I agree with Andrew though....my d5300 can produce 4000 by 6000 RAW picture files. It wouldn't be that hard to make that a beautiful raw image for video... come on nikon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 55 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: I agree 100%. Raw video as well. I usualy use the x2 bitrate. x3 keeps freezing on me Yes but to be fair, Sony releases a new camera every hour or so I actually shot RAW with the EOS M, just because.... Gets among the most hits on Vimeo of my videos there: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inazuma Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 This is a shame. I was looking forward to the DL. I think Andrew is right, Nikon is missing too many opportunities. They could potentially be the next to go down after Pentax. The D500 and D5 are great cameras but for quite specialised audiences. Someone needs to open a new sensor design and manufacturing plant because I really think Sony has everyone by the balls making their sensors for them. Kisaha and webrunner5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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