Camera advice. Best image, ignore rest. $3000

[mercer]

Do you guys think the C100mkiii will have 4K, or will that take too much away from the C300ii? Any chance Canon will include a 1080p Raw instead of 4K?

[Dogtown]

Holly cow! Did Riadnasla, just sell his F3 and Gemini for $5,500 (on eBay) that would be an amazing amount to sell that package for? Good condition low hour F3 cameras with RGB Slog and extras are as cheap as $1400.00 now, and the Gemini goes for $500-$700 That was an win for Riadnasla!

 

[Riadnasla]

On 3/4/2017 at 7:46 AM, webrunner5 said:

Ah you mean you sold you F3?

 

On 3/5/2017 at 1:18 PM, Dogtown said:

Holly cow! Did Riadnasla, just sell his F3 and Gemini for $5,500 (on eBay) that would be an amazing amount to sell that package for? Good condition low hour F3 cameras with RGB Slog and extras are as cheap as $1400.00 now, and the Gemini goes for $500-$700 That was an win for Riadnasla!

 

Unfortunately, false alarm! I went off a high estimate on shipping, plus ebay calculated costs, but the "godsend" buyer was actually a fraud. Tried to get my paypal email outside of the system and gave a cell number to facilitate "fast communications".......nope! Unfortunately the whole thing locked up my selling limits for the time being. When it goes back up it'll be a bit cheaper. 

@Dogtown if you were selling my kit, what would you try and get? I spent a little over $5K usd, would love to recuperate that but not fixated on it. Just want to swap it out for another. 

[Dogtown]

Holy cow! I thought you got a great selling price for the camera and Gemini, the pains of dealing with scammers on eBay. I think you would be doing great if you got $1,600 for the camera, and another $700-800 for the Gemini, you do have the extras with the F3, so it's a good deal, and it has the RGB installed! also the camera is in very good condition, you could add the Pl lens, I'm not sure what that model goes for, but add a fair price for that with the camera. You may want to do a Buy it now, as well as best offer. Check the sold prices for the F3 cameras and get yours in that price range. Try a bundle buy, then maybe do a separate camera, and recorder, and lens auction if the bundle doesn't sell. Like Ed David said, nothing deprecates faster than a digital camera these days. Still the F3 puts out a damn fine 1080p image! It will  be around for while and won't turn into a door stop just yet:) 

[Riadnasla]

@Dogtown Yeah, I was very pleasantly surprised that no one tried low-balling me! A big reason why I don't rush sales, just ain't worth it. I'm trying to recuperate some of my cost, mainly since (unlike a bunch of them online) mine does have all the accessories to run, including over 1TB of Gemini cards, which seem to be a hard find at the moment. Lori (Vidgear.com) is currently assessing if the kit is worth her getting involved, but if not I'll put it back on eBay at a lower price, say, $3900 for the kit? The fellow I bought the lens from is still a good friend, and we are committed to never letting the lens leave our ownership.....it's an absolutely stellar lens. 

And yeah, if it doesn't sell, big deal. I'll still have a very good 1080 camera that I can move north with and film wildlife, scenics, and anything else I apply myself to. I'll miss out on the ergonomics and agility of a preferred camera, but I can always keep saving and get a GHx or something later for glidecam work. Again, the 2 "main" factors of this swap are: 1) file sizes vs. image, 2) camera size/weight/agility. 

[hijodeibn]

On 5 de marzo de 2017 at 9:14 PM, mercer said:

Do you guys think the C100mkiii will have 4K, or will that take too much away from the C300ii? Any chance Canon will include a 1080p Raw instead of 4K?

Internal 4K?, no way, Raw?, no way…..but probably if we are very lucky, they will include 4k output through the hdmi port….

[Kisaha]

Even XC10 and 15 have internal 4K, there is no way NOT offering 4K in ANY video camera that is going to be released in 2017.

Raw? Of,  course not, why to do that on a low cost workhorse camera (they have also C300ii/C500/C700 to sell)?

10bit on an external recorder and some kind of high speed 1080p shooting will be more than enough for me, together with some overall improvements (touch screen AF?!!).

[hijodeibn]

31 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Even XC10 and 15 have internal 4K, there is no way NOT offering 4K in ANY video camera that is going to be released in 2017.

Raw? Of,  course not, why to do that on a low cost workhorse camera (they have also C300ii/C500/C700 to sell)?

10bit on an external recorder and some kind of high speed 1080p shooting will be more than enough for me, together with some overall improvements (touch screen AF?!!).

I hope you are right, but if Canon provides internal 4K in the new C100iii everybody (who wants a Canon camera) is going to put their money there, and guess what, C300ii is not going to be selling at all, therefore I doubt Canon is going to do that, most probably external 4K, but I still hope you are right!!!!

[Kisaha]

@hijodeibn Canon C100 and Canon C300 both had 1080p and both sold like hot chips back in the day!

Are you going to buy a NON 4K camera in 2017? If they do not have 4K then the new Ursa mini Pro is becoming more and more attractive. FS5 is already here and more mature than a year ago, and there is always the sleeper JVC LS300 that goes for dSLR like price, 3000euros only, and a firmware away from total dominance!

All in all, no 4K, no C100!

[webrunner5]

I agree, in 2017 you are dead in the water if you don't have 4k on a camera that is like a C100 price wise. I think it would be suicide. Raw, I don't think so either.

I just hope they don't think they can charge 6000 bucks like the Ursa Mini Pro is. Needs to be more like 4700, 4900 tops to sell I think. I kind of think the Ursa Mini Pro is a bit overpriced to be honest. I think it should have been more like 5300, 5400ish.

I will say it again, I think Panasonic needs to come out with a 4k AF100 for say, 4000 to 4400 bucks.

[HockeyFan12]

On 3/5/2017 at 4:14 PM, mercer said:

Do you guys think the C100mkiii will have 4K, or will that take too much away from the C300ii? Any chance Canon will include a 1080p Raw instead of 4K?

I think it will shoot 4k. 4k has really taken off on the very very low end, so for the videographer/enthusiast market there's value there. It won't feature Canon Log 2 or 15 stop DR. Too heavy to work with in post for most low end productions and arguably more than should have been packed into the C300 Mk II (most people in that range are well-served shooting 1080p on a C300 or FS7).

I still don't see what all the fuss is. Only one or two of my clients (or clients of places where I work) demand 4k delivery and I can't see that changing in the near future. 

 

[Shield3]

On 3/4/2017 at 2:17 PM, zerocool22 said:

Thats not the point here is it. For sure the c100 is a workhouse and if you shoot weddings or events or do that kind of work the c100 is the way to go. But the question here was what has the best IQ. And in every situation I compared the 2 images, the 5d comes out head first. (Low light situations)

That's strange - with fast glass I found the C100 II to be better in low light, or darn near impercetable.  Please don't compare a 18-135 STM @ F/5.6 vs. the 5d3 raw @ 50 1.2.  We're talking 4.5 stops of light here - I'm sure most of the footage you've seen out of the c100 was with much "slower" lenses.  The c100 II was usable up to about ISO 8000 IMO, and the 5d3 raw perhaps 3200.  All depends on if you're exposing for the shadows, highlights, applying NR in your raw workflow, etc.

Just my opinion, but the c100 II is really, really good in low light.  Not A7s territory of course, but man.

[Wulf]

The C1oo(II) needs a tweaked picprofile for difficult low light conditions. Forget WDR and Clog, too.

[jpfilmz]

On 3/4/2017 at 10:42 AM, Shield3 said:

Properly exposed C-log on the C100 II looked to me, with the right lens, every bit as good as the 5d3 in raw.  I shot the latter for 2+ years (started in about May of 2013).  At the end of the day there's just way too many compromises with the 5d3 raw - tedious workflow (comparatively speaking), camera lock ups, audio sync headaches *if* ML raw even decides to record audio (yes I've used modern nightly builds).  Reliability?  Don't even compare the two.  No instant backup, no ND filters, no XLR audio, no Autofocus, shorter record times, more expensive (1000x or faster) CF cards, super dodgy 3x zoom mode that locked me up often.

If I'm shooting something I can do 10 takes on the 5d3 would be a good choice.  If it's a bride walking down the aisle, 100 out of 100 times I'd grab the c100.  If I need continuous AF, good audio, long battery life, long record times, quick turnaround, (you see where I'm going here) I'll grab the c100.  With the Sigma 18-35 1.8 it's like 27-54 2.8 of full frame, and you can still throw that 85 1.2 and blow the hell out of the background on both cameras.  Hell in the summer I had the 5d3 OVERHEAT shooting ML raw.  Never seen the c100 hiccup ever.   That image does have the magic sauce, but so does the c100 in C-Log.  I prefer it over the 1dc due to all the headaches.

No reliable 1080p30 or 1080p60 raw on the 5d3; c100 II has this.  I hate looking at sports shot in 24p, don't you?

I can go out with the 10-18 STM, 18-135 and 55-250 and shoot just about anything.  Dead silent AF with face tracking, great audio, great image and reliable.  No menu diving to toggle the WB, ISO, F/Stop, better focus peaking and punch in while recording.  An actual EVF instead of strapping on a damn loupe!    But hey...if you must have static shots with the FF DOF and raw, the 5d3 is the only thing in this price range.

When properly exposed it does look every bit as good...even wide dynamic range looks superb. The C100mk2 is $4000 and the 5D3 is under $3k so that's why I haven't really tried to mention it much.  I don't have the C100mk1 but i hear it also has a great image just a different color cast.  I still cannot rank it's image as higher than a raw image due to post flexibility of 8bit vs 14bit.  Audio can be record while shooting in raw with the via MLV by enabling the MLV audio module.  The locking up issues are often caused by having to many modules enabled, card filling up while recording, card speed dropage or a battery issue.  With my configuration don't get any locking up issues.  Usability wise the C100mk2 is comprehensively no question much better to use.....better than any dslr form camera I think if you don't need stills. It's my favorite video camera to shoot on and makes me want to by a C300mk2. I did have my c100mk2 lock up on me 2 days ago where I had to take the battery out and reinsert it to get it back functioning while shooting..it was a 3rd party battery.  

[mercer]

16 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

I think it will shoot 4k. 4k has really taken off on the very very low end, so for the videographer/enthusiast market there's value there. It won't feature Canon Log 2 or 15 stop DR. Too heavy to work with in post for most low end productions and arguably more than should have been packed into the C300 Mk II (most people in that range are well-served shooting 1080p on a C300 or FS7).

I still don't see what all the fuss is. Only one or two of my clients (or clients of places where I work) demand 4k delivery and I can't see that changing in the near future. 

 

I feel the same way, however I am mostly a hobbyist that is interested in shooting some short narratives. I don't mind spending some money on equipment but I just wish the camera manufacturers would come out with 1080p versions of these cams. I was looking at some footage shot with the LS-300 and damn does it have some great features and nice cinema 2k 1080 and although it's come down in price, I'd be happy to hand over $1500 for a 1080p only version... but at $2600... IDK. 

Anyway here are some videos I found while searching Vimeo for LS-300... seriously may be one of the biggest sleeper cams of the past two years... hopefully it will drop to $2000 in the not too distant future...

And here's another 1080p 60p with JLog...

 

[Kisaha]

I say that for quite a while now!

2600$ is dead cheap, people are going to spend as much for a GH5 and the XLR thingy, or just a used 5DmarkIII, or a D500+a kit lens and with 2600$ you get a real camera, and a shotgun mic in the box!

You literally buy the camera and go to work (and then you need like a couple of hours to figure out the menus!).

Even camcorders cost as much and more, I do not comprehend how this little cam doesn't sell in the thousands.

It is 3300euros here by the way, almost 1000$ more (than the price you mentioned) and I still consider it as the best value for money right now.

[mercer]

1 minute ago, Kisaha said:

I say that for quite a while now!

2600$ is dead cheap, people are going to spend as much for a GH5 and the XLR thingy, or just a used 5DmarkIII, or a D500+a kit lens and with 2600$ you get a real camera, and a shotgun mic in the box!

You literally buy the camera and go to work (and then you need like a couple of hours to figure out the menus!).

Even camcorders cost as much and more, I do not comprehend how this little cam doesn't sell in the thousands.

It is 3300euros here by the way, almost 1000$ more (than the price you mentioned) and I still consider it as the best value for money right now.

You have been saying that for awhile and you are right. And right now at BH it comes with a $150 gift card. I was just watching @Mattias Burling mini review of it and the features are insane. I currently have a credit at BH... I just may have to fork over the rest.

 

[Kisaha]

@mercer

Try to try one first, even though it is a great camera, for me it is more a Canon C100 replacement (with some very original and amazing ideas though, like the prime zoom function, which really works!), the slow motion crops heavily (=unusable, anything above 50/60), the monitor/viewfinder aren't that great either (at least it has a monitor, forget the viewfinder though) and you probably need a metabones adapter (that's how we use it, no native m43 lenses yet, just tested a generic Panasonic kit the other day), we haven't managed to tame the J-log yet though, and I have read that an external recorder doesn't really do anything to the better image crusade.

When we talk about the best image possible, probably all the aforementioned raw and higher bit cameras have  more to say than this, still is a very capable camera of its own, with very interesting characteristics, and unbelievable cheap, it is a real video camera, that brings food to the table, and you don't have to sell the table, and all your furnitures to own one! 

Still, it doesn't have the BlackMagic magic(sic), neither the masochistic pleasure of shooting ML raw.

Out of the 3, I would buy a second LS300 to replace some other cameras we use from time to time, but for a hobbyist chasing the dragon, maybe it is not ideal.

[mercer]

17 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

@mercer

Try to try one first, even though it is a great camera, for me it is more a Canon C100 replacement (with some very original and amazing ideas though, like the prime zoom function, which really works!), the slow motion crops heavily (=unusable, anything above 50/60), the monitor/viewfinder aren't that great either (at least it has a monitor, forget the viewfinder though) and you probably need a metabones adapter (that's how we use it, no native m43 lenses yet, just tested a generic Panasonic kit the other day), we haven't managed to tame the J-log yet though, and I have read that an external recorder doesn't really do anything to the better image crusade.

When we talk about the best image possible, probably all the aforementioned raw and higher bit cameras have  more to say than this, still is a very capable camera of its own, with very interesting characteristics, and unbelievable cheap, it is a real video camera, that brings food to the table, and you don't have to sell the table, and all your furnitures to own one! 

Still, it doesn't have the BlackMagic magic(sic), neither the masochistic pleasure of shooting ML raw.

Out of the 3, I would buy a second LS300 to replace some other cameras we use from time to time, but for a hobbyist chasing the dragon, maybe it is not ideal.

Yeah, it is doubtful I will get one, but I cannot deny how great of a camera it is for the money and since the OP asked about the best cam at $3000... the LS300 definitely has to be considered. Also, I read that they are planning a 4K 60p firmware update... unsure if it's true... but definitely another bonus if it happens. 

[Kisaha]

wow! do you have a link for that? I am sure this little cam has some untapped hw and sw potential in it.

Of, course it is a liable candidate, and brand new with warranty!