Camera advice. Best image, ignore rest. $3000

[Arikhan]

@Davey

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Dirty big pro looking Nikons - covering 24-200 at f2.8 between them and shooting RAW with only one lens change each to contend with the entire day. Not a care in the world about exposure and WB (within reason).

Well said...But that is only half the truth. Ever considered the (numberous) hours to spend in post - with hundreds of RAW photos - when not shooting properly in different lighting and WB scenarios? For 800 BP? No go...

[zerocool22]

The F35 is indeed a great image (but for me way too bulky + every camera I can find is a PL mount and I have zero PL lenses)

[Kisaha]

I agree with Don, not only that, now they are doing video getting our jobs! And failing miserably to do so, can't focus manualy, don't understand most of the settings. There are so many women doing wedding video right now that is unbelievable! I help some friends during a Christening during the summer, and I took the girls A7ii and the settings were all over the place (and the menus of Sony, but that is another story).

I mean, common, it is your camera, read a manual or google a bit.

These people are getting -through facebook- a lot of jobs and money.

[josdr]

3 hours ago, Arikhan said:

@Davey

Well said...But that is only half the truth. Ever considered the (numberous) hours to spend in post - with hundreds of RAW photos - when not shooting properly in different lighting and WB scenarios? For 800 BP? No go...

No.. You process one and then mass copy the settings you chose for the next 50 you took in the same place with the same light conditions. (a little tweaking may be in order but not that much) Photographers are lazier compared to videographers. The end photographic result is a product of sentimental value that will not be dissected technically by professionals or people measurbating about pixels .. 

[Arikhan]

@josdr

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No.. You process one and then mass copy the settings you chose for the next 50 you took in the same place with the same light conditions. (a little tweaking may be in order but not that much)

The technical aspects are completely clear - but don't correspond to the reality in my experience. I shot some weddings as second/third shooter to gain some experience with guys charging 2.500 - 5.000 Euro for a one day wedding photography shot (6-8 hours), including post, all rights, etc. In these cases, the photographers had quite a lot of work in post, trying to deliver their customers the "look & feel" they wished (working on many individual stills separately)...I asked them and I was told they work (in average) 8-15 hours for post...

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Photographers are lazier compared to videographers

Maybe, but I doubt the lazy ones can make as much money as the  diligent ones. The dilligent pros work day and night on customer satisfaction, on their own skills, on getting new ideas, on communicating with their (potential) clients, on making better marketing for themselves, etc....Mostly, it' s quite hard for a photographer/videographer to get rich by simply pushing a button... ;-)

Furthermore, I am NOT interested in working with lazy people - simply because there is almost nothing to learn from them. And I am still learning...

[jpfilmz]

On February 19, 2017 at 0:20 PM, Brother said:

Will probably end up buying the GH5 but still, would be nice to know your thoughts on this.

If we ignore size, audio, release date, ergonomics, mount, sensor size and everything except the image coming out of the camera. What, ready to shoot minus lens, camera for around $3000 (new or used) will give the best image according to you? 

 

1. GH5
2. 5D3 RAW
3. BMPCC + Speedbooster + IR Cut Filter
4. BM Micro + Speedbooster + IR Cut Filter
5. BMCC + Anti Aliasing Filter + IR Cut Filter
6. C100mk 1
7. Sony a7s/a7s2/a7r2
8. GH4 + Speedbooster
9. 5DMK 4
10. XC10

Also to note: This list is just pure image quality via cameras I've had experience with (EDIT: except for the GH5).  Usability and workflow speed would totally change this list up.  The XC10 captures really good images in good light only. It's 4k is similar to a C300mk2 in well lite situations. The 5DMK4 is pretty good in 4k as well. You just need fast lenses(f/1.2-f/1.8) in low light and a Tokina 11-16 for anything wide.

[josdr]

2 hours ago, Arikhan said:

@josdr

The technical aspects are completely clear - but don't correspond to the reality in my experience. I shot some weddings as second/third shooter to gain some experience with guys charging 2.500 - 5.000 Euro for a one day wedding photography shot (6-8 hours), including post, all rights, etc. In these cases, the photographers had quite a lot of work in post, trying to deliver their customers the "look & feel" they wished (working on many individual stills separately)...I asked them and I was told they work (in average) 8-15 hours for post...

Maybe, but I doubt the lazy ones can make as much money as the  diligent ones. The dilligent pros work day and night on customer satisfaction, on their own skills, on getting new ideas, on communicating with their (potential) clients, on making better marketing for themselves, etc....Mostly, it' s quite hard for a photographer/videographer to get rich by simply pushing a button... ;-)

Furthermore, I am NOT interested in working with lazy people - simply because there is almost nothing to learn from them. And I am still learning...

Hi, I thought we were talking about £800 wedding packages not 5000 euro ones. Even then I hardly think that they do need so much time in post no matter what they say.

I do think that both photographers and videographers ,with the former being the main culprits ,are very out of touch with what their output really costs. Doing two working days work for 2500-5000 euros is quite a lot of money. If it wasn't for the sentimental value that photographers/videographers take advantage of , the cost would be way down.

Nobody employs a photographer for a friday night pissup with their mates since alcohol will provide them with all the sentiment they need..

Sure you can spend too much time in trying to nail something that will definitely not be noticed by non experts. Brides like the shallow DOF, colour me like a princess look..

It can mostly be achieved by the right  light gear off the camera rather than tons of post processing.  Photographers are much lazier in setting up favourable lighting since they have so much latitude in post and if push comes to shove nobody looks bad in B&W  .  

The layman in the street cannot begin to fathom the amount of lighting required to shoot proper video. You are very correct in saying that we should always work with people that you can learn from and never stop the process of  learning.That is a great attitude!

[jonpais]

17 minutes ago, jpfilmz said:

1. GH5
2. 5D3 RAW
3. BMPCC + Speedbooster + IR Cut Filter
4. BM Micro + Speedbooster + IR Cut Filter
5. BMCC + Anti Aliasing Filter + IR Cut Filter
6. C100mk 1
7. Sony a7s/a7s2/a7r2
8. GH4 + Speedbooster
9. 5DMK 4
10. XC10

Also to note: This list is just pure image quality via cameras I've had experience with.  Usability and workflow speed would totally change this list up.  The XC10 captures really good images in good light only. It's 4k is similar to a C300mk2 in well lite situations. The 5DMK4 is pretty good in 4k as well. You just need fast lenses(f/1.2-f/1.8) in low light and a Tokina 11-16 for anything wide.

You've used the GH5???

[Laurier]

Are you going to use it in controlled environment or not ? are you going to shoot all day long with it ?

If not nothing beat the versatility of a a7s/2 , you need to expose it properly and have decent skills to grade it , but for complex production the battery is a bit a pain in the butt.

Otherwise get a blackmagic pocket or the 2.5k one.

I had gh4/a7s/bmpcc and shoot a feature on the bmcc 4k.

Panasonic motion and image is not pleasing at all, the best images a I saw out of it, were when used with some lomo spherical to cut the sharpness. and still the colors/motion are so so...but a small versatile camera
Sony colors and rolling shutter suck on the a7s...but you can shoot everywhere anytime.
The pocket was way better in term of color/motion/look, but beware the moire.
The blackmagic 4k is unusable pass iso 400. otherwise pleasing image.

I personally now have a ursa mini 4.6k nothing to complain about....you get what you pay for.

[Dan Wake]

remember if you need to use it on a gimbal is better something with autofocus tracking on the subject. I would get a light mirrorles with that focus feature, 60p, and a 12bit codec (for good color post) if does exist. then a decent gimbal and autofocus compatible lens. this is what I wish today (fogetting about raw).

on a gimbal you can't manual focus ad the camera needs to adjust focus continuesly. or buy a wireless follow focus fo a second operator as focus puller. imho today the gimbal is something to consider very seriously before choosing the right camera.

[jpfilmz]

15 minutes ago, jonpais said:

You've used the GH5???

No...that was an oversight.  I added the GH5 to the top of the list after I finished the post and reread the OP and saw the part about ignoring camera release date.  

 

Quote

"If we ignore size, audio, release date, ergonomics, mount, sensor size and everything except the image coming out of the camera."

 

[Brother]

Thanks to all of you for some great suggestions!

Should have mentioned this in the beginning but there's a project coming up where nothing else than image really matters, hence the ignore rest comment. Controlled environment, good lighting, everything is stationary except those in front of  the camera. 1-3 minute shoot, edit, send to client, repeat.

[Laurier]

6 minutes ago, Brother said:

Thanks to all of you for some great suggestions!

Should have mentioned this in the beginning but there's a project coming up where nothing else than image really matters, hence the ignore rest comment. Controlled environment, good lighting, everything is stationary except those in front of  the camera. 1-3 minute shoot, edit, send to client, repeat.

then you should definitely go for the blackmagic 4k.

[webrunner5]

Yeah I feel your pain. I don't think I would ever go back to trying to make a living shooting video. It was a long time ago for me, but even now with all we got gear wise, editing wise, shooting video is a giant, expensive, royal pain in the ass.

You Never feel comfortable doing it, and like you say lighting changing all the time, people moving around, pretty much an impossible task if you ask me. And that is not even half the pain in loading, transporting carrying all the crap you need to make it happen. And to top it off I think there is way less money in it to boot to be made. To make even a wedding or corporate interview really top notch is a Herculean task as you well know.

I am starting a new project to photograph, do short videos, mostly photos, in my Hometown for historic preservation. I figure it will take months to do off an on, but I am looking forward to carrying a small camera 2, lenses and maybe built in flash and be happy. I am probably going to go with some 1080p small handheld camcorder with stabilization and small tripod and that's it. If the light is no good the hell with it, I will come back when the sun is shinning LoL.

[jonpais]

51 minutes ago, Brother said:

Thanks to all of you for some great suggestions!

Should have mentioned this in the beginning but there's a project coming up where nothing else than image really matters, hence the ignore rest comment. Controlled environment, good lighting, everything is stationary except those in front of  the camera. 1-3 minute shoot, edit, send to client, repeat.

Fuji X-T2

[mercer]

21 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah I feel your pain. I don't think I would ever go back to trying to make a living shooting video. It was a long time ago for me, but even now with all we got gear wise, editing wise, shooting video is a giant, expensive, royal pain in the ass.

You Never feel comfortable doing it, and like you say lighting changing all the time, people moving around, pretty much an impossible task if you ask me. And that is not even half the pain in loading, transporting carrying all the crap you need to make it happen. And to top it off I think there is way less money in it to boot to be made. To make even a wedding or corporate interview really top notch is a Herculean task as you well know.

I am starting a new project to photograph, do short videos, mostly photos, in my Hometown for historic preservation. I figure it will take months to do off an on, but I am looking forward to carrying a small camera 2, lenses and maybe built in flash and be happy. I am probably going to go with some 1080p small handheld camcorder with stabilization and small tripod and that's it. If the light is no good the hell with it, I will come back when the sun is shinning LoL.

Camcorder? C100, XC10? Or something like the XA10?

[sam]

10 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

 But there's a lot out there at much lower prices that can compete pretty well with it.

By that logic, how long before products like Unity can compete "pretty well" with todays productions and commercial advertising $$$ gives current means of image aquisition a slow painful death like it did with film?   Appreciate your insight!  

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

Camcorder? C100, XC10? Or something like the XA10?

Probably along the lines of a XA10. I don't want people calling Homeland Security because I have a big honking video setup.   I will be in neighborhoods I don't live in at all, so I don't want to draw any more attention that I need to. It ought to be interesting either way. I am sure someone will want to come out and kick my ass because they think I am a pedophile or something.

I am sure this will be a run n gun thing. Run to the damn car as fast as I can go, and Gun the throttle when I get in and go like hell. This is a city of 70,000 people. So it has some damn bad areas as most cities that size do.

I guess a stripped down C100 would work also. That would be nice to do with the DPAF update. But it would require a heavier tripod is the problem.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Probably along the lines of a XA10. I don't want people calling Homeland Security because I have a big honking video setup.   I will be in neighborhoods I don't live in at all, so I don't want to draw any more attention that I need to. It ought to be interesting either way. I am sure someone will want to come out and kick my ass because they think I am a pedophile or something.

I am sure this will be a run n gun thing. Run to the damn car as fast as I can go, and Gun the throttle when I get in and go like hell. This is a city of 70,000 people. So it has some damn bad areas as most cities that size do.

I guess a stripped down C100 would work also. That would be nice to do with the DPAF update. But it would require a heavier tripod is the problem.

Yeah, a C100 minus the top handle with the Sigma 17-50mm could be a cool combo. I briefly had that lens for my Nikon and it was almost as steady as a tripod for static shots... or light movements. 

[webrunner5]

6 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yeah, a C100 minus the top handle with the Sigma 17-50mm could be a cool combo. I briefly had that lens for my Nikon and it was almost as steady as a tripod for static shots... or light movements. 

Sounds like a Plan!