Camera advice. Best image, ignore rest. $3000

[IronFilm]

You would get the 3x F5 "sometime" (2019) in the future for the 4K....  but not a FS7 in the mix? & might it. But also might it not be even more logical to get instead 3x C500 for the 4K multicam as you are already a third of the way there?!

[Dogtown]

I love the C500, just the F5 is it a little more user friendly. Who knows where things will stand in two more years? if any of us are standing at all. I don't really like anything I see coming out of the FS7.

[Riadnasla]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Strip the F3 way way down. Just use it with internal batteries and the recorder as your monitor. Then it can become pretty lightweight and a pleasure to use when you are going solo as just yourself as the crew.

On higher quality projects, I run the F3 with native battery and 6" rods to hold the Gemini out back. On 4:2:0 projects I typically just have the camera and handgrip, as light as she gets. For a cinema camera she's light, but in my market I'm typically competing against people running DSLRs and the light (and cheap) support gear that couldn't support the F3. I agree that it is light on the shoulder, but I can't afford the gear I need to get the shots clients in my area are looking for. Side-point: any that can afford to rent support gear for the project typically have enough to hire a RED owner/operator. 

 

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Instead of selling your F3, why not have two cameras?! (great for interviews too!)

Don't take this wrong because I'm actually pretty cheerful, but honestly: I'm broke. What little money I had was spent getting a more-expensive-than-was-assured camera operational. The potential clients that I can and have reached (and even one of my close work colleagues) have no need for something with the heft and (amazing) image quality of the F3, especially when 5Ds and XA30s will will do perceptively the same job for less weight, support gear, and data storage (not to mention proprietary parts hassle). 

 

6 hours ago, Dogtown said:

I bought my first F3 in 2015, now this year I just picked up two more F3s as I can use them in multi live performance set up's

.......W-w-ould you like a fourth? :P Seriously though, I agree with all of what you said in that post. I'm not selling the F3 and Gemini to get a "better camera", as I'm really impressed and excited at the stuff I have been able to film with it, and I don't think I could find a better image in my price range. For the work that I've actually been able to get profitable gigs though, I don't need uncompressed recording, nor 13.5 stops of DR. I need something that doesn't require a bunch of proprietary-gear workarounds (SxS? FZ-mount?). If it has a nice image with some ability to colour-grade, SD recording, can be flown on glidecam, and use commonly-available lenses, then it does the kind of work my typical client wants. 

 

Thanks for the responses, it's really good to be able to bounce this off people who aren't Sony fanboys or evangelists. 

 

Also of note: For many reasons, personal and financial, my wife and I are considering the move to NWT where I would work an hourly job and leave full-time video behind, at least for the time being. While it is true the F3 hasn't worked out as well as I originally hoped for all the reasons mentioned, my filmmaking environment would also be drastically changing. We would be in a highly remote location, I would be completely solo for anything I film, with no budget for DPX sequence storage, and other factors. I would also be filming mainly for personal reasons (my son growing up, micro-films, scenic landscapes and wildlife, etc) with the odd wedding/grad/funeral as foreseeable paid gigs on weekends. For these circumstances, it is more important to have a more agile camera with good internal recording than it is to have an inexpensive cinema camera. If I still have the F3, then I'll bring the F3 up. But if I can make this change, I'd like to do it before it becomes impossible to sell the camera with enough leftover to get another. 

 

 

 

[Justin Bacle]

3 hours ago, Riadnasla said:

Also of note: For many reasons, personal and financial, my wife and I are considering the move to NWT where I would work an hourly job and leave full-time video behind, at least for the time being. While it is true the F3 hasn't worked out as well as I originally hoped for all the reasons mentioned, my filmmaking environment would also be drastically changing. We would be in a highly remote location, I would be completely solo for anything I film, with no budget for DPX sequence storage, and other factors. I would also be filming mainly for personal reasons (my son growing up, micro-films, scenic landscapes and wildlife, etc) with the odd wedding/grad/funeral as foreseeable paid gigs on weekends. For these circumstances, it is more important to have a more agile camera with good internal recording than it is to have an inexpensive cinema camera. If I still have the F3, then I'll bring the F3 up. But if I can make this change, I'd like to do it before it becomes impossible to sell the camera with enough leftover to get another. 

I have a full time job myself and make videos too. Don't worry, it is not impossible. You just have to be very organised and reserve moments for video. I reserve usually Saturday and two evenings on the week. 
Having another "occupation" forces you to be very efficient in the video work you're doing (and you are assured of having a paycheck).
I'am not saying it is a great situation, but just wanted to encourage you and let you know that it is possible to mix jobs. (Plus you never know, they might need some video in you full-time job. Never say no to opportunities )

[webrunner5]

I know it's early yet, but you Have to think maybe a GH5 has to be in the mix to replace your Sony F3? That camera, with the summer updates, has to meet 90% of what anyone really needs other than making a Hollywood feature film!

One of your Sony F3's would cover the cost of it selling it. I am sure it would be hard to match to a Sony, but hell you don't need the Sony with it! I don't see how many of us on here in truth can not think that this new GH5 is not what most have been dreaming for in reality. I sure as hell can't think of a camera, that I can afford ever, is going to beat it, new or used from what I have seen test wise so far.. This camera is a game changer for what it cost.

[Riadnasla]

5 hours ago, Justin Bacle said:

I have a full time job myself and make videos too. Don't worry, it is not impossible. You just have to be very organised and reserve moments for video. I reserve usually Saturday and two evenings on the week. 
Having another "occupation" forces you to be very efficient in the video work you're doing (and you are assured of having a paycheck).
I'am not saying it is a great situation, but just wanted to encourage you and let you know that it is possible to mix jobs. (Plus you never know, they might need some video in you full-time job. Never say no to opportunities )

Totally! I don't think I could ever leave making videos behind, and while up there I fully intend to take whichever camera I own out to film wildlife and other personal projects, plus any work that comes my way. I'm just trying to go for something a little easier to bring around and less intimidating to others. (Like any pro camera, the F3 does grab attention  )

 

44 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I know it's early yet, but you Have to think maybe a GH5 has to be in the mix to replace your Sony F3? That camera, with the summer updates, has to meet 90% of what anyone really needs other than making a Hollywood feature film!

One of your Sony F3's would cover the cost of it selling it. I am sure it would be hard to match to a Sony, but hell you don't need the Sony with it! I don't see how many of us on here in truth can not think that this new GH5 is not what most have been dreaming for in reality. I sure as hell can't think of a camera, that I can afford ever, is going to beat it, new or used from what I have seen test wise so far.. This camera is a game changer for what it cost.

I actually got to use a GH4 the other day, and am pretty impressed! Not much low-light ability but being able to overcrank to 96fps was pretty cool! If the GH5 is just as much a dream to work with, I may go that route, though I think I'd prefer an "all-in-one" camera so I am not worrying about all the bits and bobs I need to build a rig out of. 

[webrunner5]

36 minutes ago, Riadnasla said:

Totally! I don't think I could ever leave making videos behind, and while up there I fully intend to take whichever camera I own out to film wildlife and other personal projects, plus any work that comes my way. I'm just trying to go for something a little easier to bring around and less intimidating to others. (Like any pro camera, the F3 does grab attention  )

 

I actually got to use a GH4 the other day, and am pretty impressed! Not much low-light ability but being able to overcrank to 96fps was pretty cool! If the GH5 is just as much a dream to work with, I may go that route, though I think I'd prefer an "all-in-one" camera so I am not worrying about all the bits and bobs I need to build a rig out of. 

Yeah I am not a fan of Mirrorless or DSLR's for video either. Camcorder guy myself. But the GH5 just looks too damn hard to ignore. And I bet the new Sony A7 mkIII cameras will be hard to resist also!

On low cost stuff I don't think we have much choice to be honest, not if you want 10 bit, and 4k, and 180fps Slo Mo! Jesus, that 180fps is enough to make a person buy it.

[Riadnasla]

20 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah I am not a fan of Mirrorless or DSLR's for video either. Camcorder guy myself. But the GH5 just looks too damn hard to ignore. And I bet the new Sony A7 mkIII cameras will be hard to resist also!

On low cost stuff I don't think we have much choice to be honest, not if you want 10 bit, and 4k, and 180fps Slo Mo! Jesus, that 180fps is enough to make a person buy it.

Definitely a camcorder guy now that I've discovered all the efficiencies vs DSLR. The GH4 and 5 do look really nice though, and if I'm just doing beauty shots, then 96/180fps does become very tempting! 

It hurts to say, but I don't need 10-bit or 4K for what I typically do. Both the FS5 and C100MkII have 12+ stops DR before using external recorders, which is definitely less than the 13.5 I get currently, but I need to record 11GB/min to get that benefit. If these smaller cameras can do it with the baked-in codec, then I can manage without the high data. 

[Justin Bacle]

1 hour ago, Riadnasla said:

Totally! I don't think I could ever leave making videos behind, and while up there I fully intend to take whichever camera I own out to film wildlife and other personal projects, plus any work that comes my way. I'm just trying to go for something a little easier to bring around and less intimidating to others. (Like any pro camera, the F3 does grab attention  )

 

I actually got to use a GH4 the other day, and am pretty impressed! Not much low-light ability but being able to overcrank to 96fps was pretty cool! If the GH5 is just as much a dream to work with, I may go that route, though I think I'd prefer an "all-in-one" camera so I am not worrying about all the bits and bobs I need to build a rig out of. 

the good thing about having video as a "(financially) second" occupation is that you don't have to work on "crappy" videos. You get to choose more according to your likings  
It is a kind of freedom very valuable to me, even if you get less available time than the other videomakers 

[webrunner5]

Well I have to admit if 1080p is what you need without a high fps Slo Mo, there is not a way in hell you can beat the Sony F3 you are using with the Odyssey 7Q+. They have the look no camera we can afford can do, like a Arri gasp!

And for Run n Gun for 1080p a Canon C100 mkII is not shabby either.

[Riadnasla]

11 minutes ago, Justin Bacle said:

the good thing about having video as a "(financially) second" occupation is that you don't have to work on "crappy" videos. You get to choose more according to your likings  
It is a kind of freedom very valuable to me, even if you get less available time than the other videomakers

This. Very much this. For bread-and-butter I've been pigeon-holed into filming and cutting speaker events, and the mundane nature of it has been draining to say the least. These days I don't look forward to editing anymore. Hopefully, given a stable income and some space I can re-cultivate creative projects again. 

11 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well I have to admit if 1080p is what you need without a high fps Slo Mo, there is not a way in hell you can beat the Sony F3 you are using with the Odyssey 7Q+. They have the look no camera we can afford can do, like a Arri gasp!

And for Run n Gun for 1080p a Canon C100 mkII is not shabby either.

Yep. 1080 will do just fine, though I wouldn't really want less than 60fps overcrank! The GH4 became tempting to me this last week due to the 96fps. We'll see how it goes, can't move to another cam if this one doesn't sell, making it a moot point.

[webrunner5]

Yeah same for me, sell stuff, or it isn't happening! 

[mercer]

I don't want to rain on the GH5 parade, but I would assume that the camera will not be as good as hyped... it will be good... great even... just not the end all be all a lot of folks are making it out to be... or hoping it will be. 

[Mattias Burling]

26 minutes ago, mercer said:

I don't want to rain on the GH5 parade, but I would assume that the camera will not be as good as hyped... it will be good... great even... just not the end all be all a lot of folks are making it out to be... or hoping it will be. 

I think your right. It will be pretty much like the GH4. A great camera that some love and others feel disappointed.

We will then make a little list of features that would turn it into the perfect camera.

By the time a new camera with those features arrive we have made a new little list of the next couple of must haves.

And so we dance.

[Dogtown]

Riadnasla, one option is to stay in the Sony camp, and get a EX3 for your speaking events, these can be had for $1,500 in good condition with extras! great codec for those long events, you can use the F3 as a second camera that you can dumb down to match the EX3, you would have easy timecode sync with both cameras, then I would only add an A7S for your Glidecam, that camera could also net you 4K should you ever need it. So if you could raise the funds say $3,000 you would have three cameras that would cover anything you need. When you jump into the Canon camp, you could almost do the same thing with the C100 and a Canon mark III, and the DPAF on the C100 would work great for the Glidecam.   

[dbp]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I don't want to rain on the GH5 parade, but I would assume that the camera will not be as good as hyped... it will be good... great even... just not the end all be all a lot of folks are making it out to be... or hoping it will be. 

This. Though I'm not sure there'll ever be an end all be all, because we're all programmed to want more more more, and because I think the improvement curve is flattening out to the point that it's hard to make monstrous, noticeable image quality leaps now. 

[zerocool22]

What camera, IQ wise would you guys suggest if the budget went up to 5K? ursa mini 4.6k?

[Parker]

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

I think your right. It will be pretty much like the GH4. A great camera that some love and others feel disappointed.

We will then make a little list of features that would turn it into the perfect camera.

By the time a new camera with those features arrive we have made a new little list of the next couple of must haves.

And so we dance.

Of course there will always be another pot of gold at the end of the future-camera rainbow (at this point we're all hopelessly addicted to that future-gear wonder, hope, and speculation anyway, else sites like this would not exist) but for my needs, at least right now, thick color, clean 3200, and decent high frame rates in an affordable mirrorless cam is really all I need, and the GH5 looks to check all of those boxes rather excellently. 

It won't be a day-one purchase for me or anything, I'm pretty happy with my current gear, and I'll at least wait until the promised summer firmware upgrades are out, but still, exciting times! 

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, zerocool22 said:

What camera, IQ wise would you guys suggest if the budget went up to 5K? ursa mini 4.6k?

I would have to go for a Sony FS5 for that money. The Ursa is a great camera also, but it seems a little too fragile, to flaky to depend on. The size on the FS5 is nice, can use them on a Glidecam, smaller Gimbal, and they seem to be bullet proof from what I have heard. Heck the Variable ND filter is nearly worth the price of admission alone. Some people are not thrilled about their color science though.

Heck there was a Sony F35 on ebay a couple months ago for 4500 bucks. but I am not sure about stuff that old. Not uncommon for a Red Epic X brain to come up for 4500 either, but damn cost you 4500 more to equip one. Unless you hate Sony, you would not be alone, I like them, I would have to go with the FS5 myself.

 

[mercer]

Yeah, that would be my pick too. Then I would save up for the Raw add on and an Odyssey for 4K raw. But even the FS5's internal 10 bit 1080p looks pretty darn nice.