Camera advice. Best image, ignore rest. $3000

[Kisaha]

How Steven Spielberg and NX1 came into the same sentence, I do not know!

I give you a clue though, in "ms peregrine's home for peculiar children", there is an NX1, and they comment of how amazing the camera is(!),

also in Luke Cage Tv series in the police department!

P.S I do not think that Steven knows anything about Samsung cameras!

[noone]

18 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well Super 16, now that is different!  I guess I will take that Bolex then. 

Nah, turns out it is just an old super 8 camera but I spent a whole $10 on it anyway.     A Cinemax 8EE with a roll of Kodachrome 40.     Nowhere I could get it developed even if it wasn't fogged though but it is a fun little new toy.

Battery life looks to be terrible (it doesn't have one) but I wish digital cameras could be wound up like this.

My last Super 8 camera must have been almost 40 years ago!

I do not understand how anyone could look through the OVF it is so small.

[Kisaha]

@nooneI have some incredible super 8 cameras, the latest super 8 ever made (Minolta), a do-it-all Bauer with Schneider lens, a Canon 814, a Yashica (the simplest, and one of my most favorite ones, shot some nice Kodachrome with this one). I believe I have a Vienette somewhere too, but never used that one.

I recently tested the Bauer and the Minolta and are working, I still have some film. I am thinking of shooting and developing that, but it is kind of expensive to do just for fun, but there are options in Europe.

[BenEricson]

On 2/27/2017 at 4:55 PM, webrunner5 said:

I am sure as hell not buying a film movie camera, or film photo camera if they give me one. Those days are done. Give me a 8k Red Weapon, not a Bolex!

Honestly, 16mm is really underrated. I'm working on a few Bolex 16mm/Super 16mm projects right now. I have been getting 4K scans and I am super happy with the results. 

You get the color everyone wants but you also get the character of the film stock and lenses of that era. Really been loving the Kern 18-100. The first few frames are with the Kern zoom. I'll post up the projects when they get done.

I really love the F3 and C300ii but cannot stand the FS700. There's a lot of green in washington state, and the FS700 just doesn't render green right. Canon nails it. F3 nails it. Film obviously does as well.

[webrunner5]

Well don't we really want to admit you can go out and buy a BMPCC, BMCC, shoot raw, and be happy with a Lot less hassle than shooting Film for normal stuff that is not a Hollywood Feature?

[HockeyFan12]

13 hours ago, sam said:

 I went to the house they used in E.T.  two weeks ago and shot a quick clip with a 1Dc as its what I had with me.  Did it just to play back to back next to the film.  1dc honestly looks like an iphone in comparison.  I'm with ya!  But again, you've only tested like 2 cameras, with minimal time and expense, so what do you know:)     

 

I agree with most of what you've written. I think there are well-made movies that feel like video games and well-made video games that feel like movies. But I prefer Spielberg's blockbusters to anything Marvel (or anyone, really) has produced recently and while the Uncharted games, for instance, are fun (and look amazing!), the limited gameplay and ludonarrative dissonance are real problems. 

(Edge of Tomorrow and Avatar, however, are interesting and quite good specifically because of the ways they adapt video game “rules” to the film language. I like both, even though both are flawed.)

I think there’s a historical precedent for other media (painting and early photography) resembling each other immediately before “diverging,” as you put it, and I look forward to seeing what’s next with video games, vr, and movies. Hopefully not more of the same! 

That said, theory is only good until practice contradicts it. And Yedlin’s Nuke script (from what I hear from those who've used it) is very impressive and could fool almost anyone, as do a lot of today’s visual effects fly completely under the audience's radar. My experience with the Alexa indicates that it’s the technical equal of film or better, and aesthetically it is great, too, and can be made to look like film. What you can get for $3000 in a digital camera is WAY beyond what you could get for $3000 shooting film or video years ago, and it wasn't until 5218 and digital scans that film had dynamic range to compete with film (as we know it) lol. Film is not technically better so much as it's ontologically distinct. Furthermore, sometimes it’s not even so much about the medium as about the approach certain tools encourage you to take. No offense, but likely the bigger problem with the 1DC clip you shot at the E.T. house is that it wasn’t shot by Spielberg’s crew. The best crew with the best lighting and the best post house could still do wonders with lesser or different resources. Craftspeople still matter more than their tools. But yeah I’d take 35mm over any digital camera if I had to choose what I wanted to see, and given unlimited resources, it’s what I’d want to use, too. (Digital made to look specifically digital has its merits, too. The ephemeral quality of physically empty media is well-served by snapchat, vine, and certain YouTube vlogs.) But I hope to see a return to physicality and emotion in blockbuster films; even the lip service JJ Abrams paid promoting Force Awakens (which did have some great moments, and Abrams does have a better understanding of Spielberg's blocking than any of his contemporaries) indicates that there's a desire for a distinctly filmic experience to reemerge in the commercial mainstream.

[BenEricson]

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well don't we really want to admit you can go out and buy a BMPCC, BMCC, shoot raw, and be happy with a Lot less hassle than shooting Film for normal stuff that is not a Hollywood Feature?

I own the pocket, it has aliasing, really bad IR, batteries run out super quick. It is a hassle in a lot of ways in its own right. I do like the images, just such a pain to work with. The bolex does a lot of things the bolex cannot, 64fps, long exposures, no rolling shutter.

The F3 however is awesome. 

 

 

[Mattias Burling]

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

How Steven Spielberg and NX1 came into the same sentence, I do not know!

Hey, I was just quoting people from this forum. I think its total BS.

14 hours ago, sam said:

 I went to the house they used in E.T.  two weeks ago and shot a quick clip with a 1Dc as its what I had with me.  Did it just to play back to back next to the film.  1dc honestly looks like an iphone in comparison.  I'm with ya!  But again, you've only tested like 2 cameras, with minimal time and expense, so what do you know:)     

 

Yup, and the 1DC is one of them. My tip, bring a 5Dmkiii next time and it will be better

But seriously, it would be fun to go on a set like that but with lights and all and try to match it.

[Phil A]

3 hours ago, BenEricson said:

I own the pocket, it has aliasing, really bad IR, batteries run out super quick. It is a hassle in a lot of ways in its own right. I do like the images, just such a pain to work with. The bolex does a lot of things the bolex cannot, 64fps, long exposures, no rolling shutter.

The F3 however is awesome. 

The pocket breaks my heart. Ever since grading the raw files I want one (and get a meltdown grading my XAVC-S) and always eye the Micro Cinema. The colors are great and the image is so organic. But the moire and aliasing is just too risky for unrepeatable shots and the 2.77 crop factor is bad if you don't shell out big bucks to get a set of Zeiss s16 Super Speeds. There's the Speed Booster but there aren't really that many APS-C lenses that make sense to adapt and with full frame it gets huge.

I'm consistently on the brink to get the BMMCC. There's a really big empty spot for that compact dream camera from BMD, the BMCC/BMPC4k should get updated as not everyone can do a big camera as the Ursa Mini.

[webrunner5]

All you have to do is buy a cut filter and the IR problem is solved with the BMPCC. I don't see that being a big deal. Want no rolling shutter, buy the BMPC4K, global shutter. There is no way you can beat the output that BM has for the money on any camera they have. Yeah the BMMCC I don't like all you have to do to rig one, but they are amazing for the price and money. Especially the 4k one.

[Mattias Burling]

28 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

All you have to do is buy a cut filter and the IR problem is solved with the BMPCC. I don't see that being a big deal. Want no rolling shutter, buy the BMPC4K, global shutter. There is no way you can beat the output that BM has for the money on any camera they have. Yeah the BMMCC I don't like all you have to do to rig one, but they are amazing for the price and money. Especially the 4k one.

And with the BMPC4K you don't have to worry about IR, moire or aliasing either.

For the BMPCC one can also consider the Mosaic filter.

[webrunner5]

2 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

And with the BMPC4K you don't have to worry about IR, moire or aliasing either.

For the BMPCC one can also consider the Mosaic filter.

Nice to know that about the BMPC4K camera. Mosaic filter, I never heard of that before?

[Mattias Burling]

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Nice to know that about the BMPC4K camera. Mosaic filter, I never heard of that before?

It remover quite a bit of Moire and sits in the camera. It can be used together with the BMPCC speedbooster as well.
Some say it also has a slight affect on the image to the positive, gives it a less digital taste.

 

 

[Phil A]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

All you have to do is buy a cut filter and the IR problem is solved with the BMPCC. I don't see that being a big deal. Want no rolling shutter, buy the BMPC4K, global shutter. There is no way you can beat the output that BM has for the money on any camera they have. Yeah the BMMCC I don't like all you have to do to rig one, but they are amazing for the price and money. Especially the 4k one.

 

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Nice to know that about the BMPC4K camera. Mosaic filter, I never heard of that before?

 

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

And with the BMPC4K you don't have to worry about IR, moire or aliasing either.

For the BMPCC one can also consider the Mosaic filter.

No, the IR filter helps with the IR contamination (black turning red/brown) but for the moire you need the OLPF that Mattias mentioned. Seeing how the BMPCC has "only" exactly 1920x1080 pixel and a bayer-sensor should be downscaled slightly to get the real resolution, I'm just still on the fence. The BMCC is perfect in that regard due to the 2.5k sensor. The OLPF will further reduce the resolution a bit afaik, so you end up with something between 1080p and 720p in real image information... but then you have those amazing colors so who cares really?! I don't need slow motion (I always wanted it but I find no real use outside of tech demos and "food dropping into water" kind of gimmicks), I don't need 4k, I could live with speed-boosted ISO 800/1600.

I think a problem is that the system just keeps to sum up. BMMCC (because I'd rather have the LP-E6 power solution and improved processing vs the BMPCC's screen) + SpeedBooster + OLPF is already over 2000€ (I'll ignore a field monitor because a lot of people probably have one already). You probably want one of those cute control grips people sell, there go another 200€. Add the cage to put everything together, another 100-200€. The system is not as cheap as it seems if you really want to use it as an A cam, so the BMMCC rigged out is actually more expensive than a F3 body used.That's why I'm one of the people who would love if the BMCC or BMPC4k would make a return in a better form factor (exchangeable batteries would have been a big win already).

But yeah, I'm probably going to sell some stuff and buy one, even though I'm really spoiled by the Sony AF-C. But how many movies need wide aperture gimbal/steadicam shots?!

 

Edit: on the other hand I'm having an eye on the GH5. Combined with Voigtländer MFT lenses it might have a nice image (compared to the clinical Panasonic zooms) and 10bit VLOG will maybe not be much worse than 10bit ProRes of the BMPCC (and clearly better than 8bit S-LOG3).

[webrunner5]

Well this James Miller guy seems to have figured out how to grade it. Maybe he will sell his LuT, and I will be sucked into another mirrorless form factor. Hate them, but I can not argue with what the GH5 seems to be bringing to the table. I can't see anything, under say $4000.00, new or used, that can touch it in reality. I guess if you are serious you can't ignore it. Especially if the summer firmware updates come true.

 

[mercer]

I'd still rather have a Pocket or Micro before the GH5. Lovely colors with minimal post work needed to make it look cinematic, even with ProRes.

I'd rather have the Micro than the Pocket, but I don't want a big rig for such a tiny camera.

I can't believe someone hasn't produced some type of dummy battery or two sided battery that would place a small 3.5" monitor directly behind the micro and the camera and monitor power could be fed from the same source... or some way to adapt one of those small Canon hotshoe EVFs with an HDMI... or even one of those GoPro wrist monitors could be a cool solution as well. 

[Shield3]

My pick is the C100ii used if you can find one for $3k.  Part of the image is FOCUS, and it has the DPAF.  Part of the image could be 30p/60p, which it has (and the 1dc does not in 4k).  Love the 5d3 raw image as well but man it's just too flaky and I don't trust it 100%.  Audio is part of the overall image too, as well as built in ND's - so to me XLR/ND, Canon C-Log, reliability and gorgeous 1080 24/30/60 make the C100 the winner.  Battery life, great EVF and EF mount (and face tracking with some EF-S lenses) just add icing to the cake.  Add a cheap recorder for more flexibility in post.

Skin tones too.  Also long record times without overheating, and the simplest damn joystick to instantly toggle between ISO/WB/shutter/F-stop.  I don't really have to think that much when I pick up the C100 II - I like that. 

But I haven't shot the BMPCC or some of these older Sony/Red cameras - so what do I know?

[dbp]

I've used the C100 (Mk1) and bmpcc a bunch.  The C100 is the best all around camera for sure, such a delight to use and the quality really punches above it's weight.

When it fires on all cylinders, I still prefer the pocket image. 

But you can't discount the "not getting in your way" factor of making a good image, and that's where the C100 is second to none I think. 

[webrunner5]

Yeah a C100 mkII has to be at the top for the money.  It is just laid out so well, both for tripod and run n gun, no way you can beat it if you don't need 4k. And since it is down sampled from 4k to 1080p in camera that saves a step in post. ISO 320 to 80,000 is crazy good, built in ND filters, and to be able to record two different formats at the same time is a crazy good idea.

Yep, I have made up my mind, that is the camera I am buying. I don't want to have 10 things hanging off a camera to make it work.

[dbp]

Good choice, you won't be disappointed!