Is it possible to put filters in between your camera and lens body?

[Ben J.]

So In correlation to a question I had here: 

If it is not possible to put two filters on a 16mm lens connected to a mirror-less full frame camera without vignetting, could I carefully cut the ring off the Hollywood black magic filter and put it in the space between my camera and my lens? I'd be using a commlite ef to e mount adapter, and was wondering if it would be possible to cut off the mounting bracket on the HBM filter and attach it to the rear of the lens hole, the adapter, or the rubber part of the emount next to the sensor?

[tupp]

1 hour ago, Ben J. said:

So In correlation to a question I had here: 

If it is not possible to put two filters on a 16mm lens connected to a mirror-less full frame camera without vignetting, could I carefully cut the ring off the Hollywood black magic filter and put it in the space between my camera and my lens? I'd be using a commlite ef to e mount adapter, and was wondering if it would be possible to cut off the mounting bracket on the HBM filter and attach it to the rear of the lens hole, the adapter, or the rubber part of the emount next to the sensor?

There are ways to put filters behind the lens.  Some rare lenses include filter holders behind/within them.

 

It would be a challenge to suspend a rigid filter behind a lens.  Flexible materials such as gel, panty hose are much easier to stick on the back of a lens with an adhesive or double-stick tape.

 

It is probably not such a good idea to put a softening/diffusion filter behind the lens, as doing so could magnify the diffusion effect more than desired.

 

Definitely, keep filters far away from the sensor, as any imperfections or dust on the filter will become conspicuous in the image.

[noone]

If you use the 17-40 EF L or 17-35 2.8 L lens instead, those lenses do  have a rear slot for a gel filter.     Then maybe add another to the front.

Then again, maybe best not to use them at their widest zoom setting from what I have read.

[Ben J.]

2 hours ago, noone said:

If you use the 17-40 EF L or 17-35 2.8 L lens instead, those lenses do  have a rear slot for a gel filter.     Then maybe add another to the front.

Then again, maybe best not to use them at their widest zoom setting from what I have read.

I was thinking about that when researching but I'm not interested in using gels. I was thinking of getting someone professionally cutting the glass down to fit in that rear slot, but I don't know how they would be able to do that without scratching the diffusion glass (even if they buffed the scratches out). I could also try loosening the screws that connect the rubber slot holder for the gels to have the filter fit.

[Mattias Burling]

When using adapters there is plenty of room to put in filters. Maybe its easy to modify fir example the lensturbo which has a built in variable ND (and a good one).

Was thinking that it already has mounts and such for holding its current filter there would be very little fabrication. Should just be a matter of taking it apart and gettting a filter of the same size.

[jase]

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

When using adapters there is plenty of room to put in filters. Maybe its easy to modify fir example the lensturbo which has a built in variable ND (and a good one).

Was thinking that it already has mounts and such for holding its current filter there would be very little fabrication. Should just be a matter of taking it apart and gettting a filter of the same size.

Indeed:

 

[Ben J.]

8 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

When using adapters there is plenty of room to put in filters. Maybe its easy to modify fir example the lensturbo which has a built in variable ND (and a good one).

Was thinking that it already has mounts and such for holding its current filter there would be very little fabrication. Should just be a matter of taking it apart and gettting a filter of the same size.

Thats not a bad idea, but it looks like the lensturbo acts like a speedbooster right? I should have been specific. I plan on using only fullframe canon L glass with the sony a7sii. 

[tupp]

Just to reiterate, you may find that softening/diffusion positioned behind the lens will boost their effect.

 

If your concern is possible vignetting when stacking filters in front of the lens, rent/borrow an oversized filter(s) (doesn't necessarily need to be the exact pola/"HBM" combo) and just hold it in front of your lens to check for vignetting.  Position it slightly forward to simulate two stacked filters with the added length of a step-up ring (and the extra millimeter or two from a polarizer).

 

You could also just buy/rent a big matte box with the appropriate filters.

 

Another alternative to consider is simply shooting with vintage primes.  Some of them give a nice softness, among other pleasing characteristics.

[Mattias Burling]

1 hour ago, Ben J. said:

Thats not a bad idea, but it looks like the lensturbo acts like a speedbooster right? I should have been specific. I plan on using only fullframe canon L glass with the sony a7sii. 

Sorry I wrote the wrong name. I meant ND Throttle.

Here is a review I made.

There is one for EF to Sony but you wont have electronic aperture control.

But you probably modify it and put in a filter of some kind.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1041731-REG/fotodiox_vzlx_thrtl_eos_nex_pro_vizelx_nd_throttle_adpter.html/?gclid=Cj0KEQiA88TFBRDYrOPKuvfY2pIBEiQA97Z8MfRRW0LV1RY5CkGJtN08dRo3DvH10in1LAjukxl6cMAaAvaB8P8HAQ&c3api=2572%2C138045278552

[Ben J.]

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

Sorry I wrote the wrong name. I meant ND Throttle.

Here is a review I made.

There is one for EF to Sony but you wont have electronic aperture control.

But you probably modify it and put in a filter of some kind.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1041731-REG/fotodiox_vzlx_thrtl_eos_nex_pro_vizelx_nd_throttle_adpter.html/?gclid=Cj0KEQiA88TFBRDYrOPKuvfY2pIBEiQA97Z8MfRRW0LV1RY5CkGJtN08dRo3DvH10in1LAjukxl6cMAaAvaB8P8HAQ&c3api=2572%2C138045278552

When you say electronic aperture control, do you mean like auto exposure? (Sorry I'm a noob) Could I control the aperture fine manually?

[Mattias Burling]

9 minutes ago, Ben J. said:

When you say electronic aperture control, do you mean like auto exposure? (Sorry I'm a noob) Could I control the aperture fine manually?

No, you wont have any aperture control what so ever. No autofocus either. Canon L lenses need electricity to change aperture. 

There are electronic adapters so you get auto exposure, autofocus, etc on Sony cameras with Canon lenses. But then I doubt you would want to modify it to contain filters.

 

[noone]

The cheapest EF to E smart adapters are not that expensive (under $100 US).     Maybe one of the older ones second hand could be found very cheap.  There must be six or seven different smart adapters for Canon lenses on Sony E mount cameras, maybe more!

I have four different ones ranging from a cheap Fotga to a Metabones iv.       Some may have issues with some cameras (I have a Commlite that doesn't mount to my A7s but did to my A7).

 

[Mattias Burling]

51 minutes ago, noone said:

The cheapest EF to E smart adapters are not that expensive (under $100 US).     Maybe one of the older ones second hand could be found very cheap.  There must be six or seven different smart adapters for Canon lenses on Sony E mount cameras, maybe more!

I have four different ones ranging from a cheap Fotga to a Metabones iv.       Some may have issues with some cameras (I have a Commlite that doesn't mount to my A7s but did to my A7).

 

Is there anyone of those you think would be ideal for modifications?

Getting a bit interested in this myself.

[noone]

I wouldn't risk my Metabones.     I only use that for manual focus with my 17mm TS-E but I like that just as it is.

My cheap Fotga is mostly plastic but I use that as my AF adapter (though slow AF) with a 100 f2, 40 2.8 and a couple of cheap EF mount zooms.

My no name adapter doesn't work for AF at all anymore but became like a Metabones when breaking in that it now magnifies automatically.   I use that with a EF mount 150 2.8 Sigma that doesn't play well with the other adapters and as a back up for the TS-E.

The Commlite is around here in a junk box somewhere since I can not use it on the A7s (sold my A7 long ago).

Looking inside the adapters, The Fotga has a circular ledge about the size and shape of a filter that the contacts are on.      I think a (fairly) thin filter could sit in there easily without modification if lucky

.  The Metabones and no name don't have a circular area that a filter could just slip in but could easily hold one below their contact ledges.

 

I want to try for a filter that mimics the STF lenses.     Have been looking for one that fits in the filter drawer of my old 300 2.8 Tamron but that would mean a custom filter and being expensive.    Maybe if I find one that fits in one of these it might be worth a go too.

 

I will take a couple of shots in the adapters soon and maybe use one of my many old filters as a sacrifice (to see if it fits).

[noone]

The Fotga and no name.      Plenty of space in each for a thin filter but if you got the size right, the Fotga could have one slip right in with luck.

Metabones and Commlite (I found my junk box) are fairly similar to the Metabones.     The Metabones has a larger scalloped hole than the others (designed that way for use with tilt shift lenses I understand).

[noone]

Damn Damn Damn!

My smallest filters are 43mm (for the filter drawer of my Tamron 300 2.8.) I have the original clear glass the lens came with and also a IR filter I got to experiment with.     I had to file the IR filter edges down to get it to fit.        IF I took the glass out of the IR filter, I think it would fit nicely in the Fotga circle.      Decisions decisions, do I destroy the filter to try this or do I keep it for mucking around with IR and 300 2.8!

Let me think about it.

[noone]

Well I'll be!

I destroyed the filter.     The edge was soft aluminium so was simple enough to file the edge off and have the glass just fine.

This is going to be fun.     The filter fits right in.    It might be a little loose but once you put a lens on it seems ok.      An EF-S lens doesn't seem to fit (probably for the same reason Canon FF cameras can not mount them).     That means my 18-55 APSC kit lens is out but my EF 100 f2 is ok (for fit at least).

Sticky tape would work well to hold the filter in too I think.

Amazing.     With my A7s and Fotga adapter I am getting auto focus indoors with a 750nm IR filter and can see easily in the EVF!

OP, This will easily take two filters (one inside, one on the lens front though if it is any good or not is another story.

Two snaps.    The filter glass sitting loose in the adapter and one taken with the lens and filter in place auto focused.

This calls for more 43mm filters for me!

Thanks for the thread, this will be fun (though add to more cost I can not afford).

As for the IR image, remember it is just a first snap in the excitement and is with AF at ISO 51200 and 1/15 with a 100mm lens at f2.

Have to check it with my 17 TS-E too!

[noone]

YES! It works with my 17 f4 L TS-E.         I wont post any of the rubbish samples I just took but this is going to be a lot cheaper using a 43mm piece of filter glass instead of buying a 150mm IR filter to fit in my X-Pro filter holder.

Now I really have to see if anyone makes a 43mm circular apodization filter that works like an STF lens that I can use with my 100 f2.     There is a company that makes them I think but I am shuddering about the price.

[Mattias Burling]

This is awesome stuff!

Its a poor mans IR converter or a good way to save cash on IR cut. 

[Ben J.]

Wow I can't believe how far this went! Mattias Burling, you should do a video on this haha! 

On 2/26/2017 at 8:30 PM, noone said:

YES! It works with my 17 f4 L TS-E.         I wont post any of the rubbish samples I just took but this is going to be a lot cheaper using a 43mm piece of filter glass instead of buying a 150mm IR filter to fit in my X-Pro filter holder.

Now I really have to see if anyone makes a 43mm circular apodization filter that works like an STF lens that I can use with my 100 f2.     There is a company that makes them I think but I am shuddering about the price.

noone, how is your experience with the fotga adatper? Can you control aperture manually? Any problems like light leak or crashing/shutting off the camera?  I've never heard of this adapter before, but if I run into the problem that I'm currently having, this might work. Be interesting to see a video test with that IR filter.