Upgrading from a Canon 650D to mirrorless

[DrewTNBD]

Hey gang, my first post so apologies if this is in the wrong area!

I'm a total hobbyist, but my 650D is getting a little long in the tooth now. I want to upgrade to a mirrorless camera that can do 4K and has better noise performance. Right now I'm in Tokyo visiting family, and since I'm a foreigner I can get a camera tax-free. So I could potentially save a bit of money. My budget is around £1000; so about 140000jpy. I'm looking at:

Panasonic G8 (G80/G85) - Like the 4K and the IQ, like the IBIS. No experience with a MFT sensor - will I lose that much compared to the 650D's APS-C sensor?

Fujifilm X-T2 - Like the 4K and the IQ, but no IBIS. Bigger APS-C sensor than the Panasonic, but again... not sure I will miss anything if I went MFT?

Sony A6500 - Like the 4K, the noise performance and the IQ. No IBIS again, and I don't fancy dealing with overheating like what I've read up online!

 

Lenses I have... not too many to be honest! I've mainly been using a Yashica DS-M 50mm 1.7 with an adapter, and I really like the richness of the colour and bokeh from that one. The other one I've been using is the Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 STM.

 

I'm leaning towards the Panasonic G8, with maybe adding some vintage lenses and an adapter. What adapter should I consider if I wanted to pick up something like a Zeiss Tevidon 16mm or 10mm? I saw this video:

.. and I *REALLY* like the shots there!!

 

Am I missing anything - should I consider another camera or lens approach??

[IronFilm]

Go for it, get a Panasic G80!

[DrewTNBD]

Okay, I just decided to do it! Ordered. It was actually cheaper for me in the UK though, so I've ordered it from Amazon and will get it once I return back to the UK in a couple of weeks. Whilst in Tokyo I'll do some lens hunting though, and then get adapters once I'm back too.

 

I want to get a 10mm, a 35mm, and a 50mm. I'd like to get something a bit unusual too, but not sure what. Maybe something that can do macro shots. Thoughts on lenses??

[mercer]

The a6500 does have 5-axis IBIS. But yes, there is a risk of overheating, and yes the IQ is incredible. But I think it's over your budget. 

[jonpais]

Both the X-T2 and the a6500 are quite a bit more than 1000 GBP. If you had ordered from Japan, I don't think the G8 would have English menus. Also, since you said that noise was your primary consideration, I would have spent the extra money and gotten the Sony or the Fuji instead. But I'm pretty certain the story will change again, it almost always does.

[Mattias Burling]

5 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Both the X-T2 and the a6500 are quite a bit more than 1000 GBP. If you had ordered from Japan, I don't think the G8 would have English menus. Also, since you said that noise was your primary consideration, I would have spent the extra money and gotten the Sony or the Fuji instead. But I'm pretty certain the story will change again, it almost always does.

Do you think its possible to simply do a firmware update and use an English firmware file?

[jonpais]

Just now, Mattias Burling said:

Do you think its possible to simply do a firmware update and use an English firmware file?

Perhaps, but he's already ordered from UK Amazon. He says noise was his primary consideration, and both the Sony and the Fuji have better low light performance, and not just by a little bit. And for the millionth time, it's really next to impossible to give advice to newbies asking for camera advice when they don't say exactly how they'll be using the camera anyway. 

[Mattias Burling]

Just now, jonpais said:

Perhaps, but he's already ordered from UK Amazon. He says noise was his primary consideration, and both the Sony and the Fuji have better low light performance, and not just by a little bit. And for the millionth time, it's really next to impossible to give advice to newbies asking for camera advice when they don't say exactly how they'll be using the camera anyway. 

Yeah I was just curuious about the laungage thing. Lately I mostly advice to get the one that looks coolest. All modern cameras are more than good enough for a beginner. 

But what I always tell them is, "For the love of god buy it used".

[jonpais]

Just now, Mattias Burling said:

Yeah I was just curuious about the laungage thing. Lately I mostly advice to get the one that looks coolest. All modern cameras are more than good enough for a beginner. 

But what I always tell them is, "For the love of god buy it used".

Good advice. First of all, nothing depreciates like cameras. Secondly, all three cameras are phenomenal in their own way (I've got two of them myself!).

[DrewTNBD]

23 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Perhaps, but he's already ordered from UK Amazon. He says noise was his primary consideration, and both the Sony and the Fuji have better low light performance, and not just by a little bit. And for the millionth time, it's really next to impossible to give advice to newbies asking for camera advice when they don't say exactly how they'll be using the camera anyway. 

Sorry I did not mean to say that noise was my primary consideration. I just said I wanted something that had better performance than my Canon - which all three of these do I'm sure. I just cancelled my order though, as I'm not confident in my choice. I appreciate the criticism. Let me be a bit more thorough in what I will be using a new camera for.

 

I play in a band, and will be doing some vlogging work, some rehearsal recordings, play-through videos, and gear demos. There will also be the occasional experiments in music videos eventually too!

This was done on my bandmates Sony A7S. It shows the sort of low-light environment we rehearse in:

 

This I did with my Canon 650D + Yashica combo:

 

This I did with the Canon too:

 

And this:

 

 

 

So basically... I'm very music centric. I had external recorders for my audio, and I don't mind syncing audio afterwards. So recording directly into the camera isn't *THAT* important to me. But having an on-board microphone would be useful for that sync job I suppose.

 

My price research (body only):

A used Sony A6500 - 122,963yen. In GBP this is around £880. So within budget.

A used Fujifilm X-T2 - 135,000yen. In GBP this is around £966. Within budget again.

A brand new Panasonic G85 is £629 from Amazon.co.uk - again, body only. £799 including the kit lens. I cannot find a better price than that here in Japan right now.

 

Japan prices above are all tax-free. I leave Japan on March 9th, so I've got a week or so to decide if I'm going to pick something up here.

 

Would definitely appreciate some guidance, coz I've not looked at cameras for 5 years or so and I'm totally out of touch *as well as* being a total n00b anyway!

 

Regarding buying a camera in Japan - the Panasonic allows you to choose English. The Sony does not, although there is a hack out there to reveal the option. The Fujifilm allows the choice of language too.

 

[jonpais]

5 minutes ago, DrewTNBD said:

Sorry I did not mean to say that noise was my primary consideration. I just said I wanted something that had better performance than my Canon - which all three of these do I'm sure. I just cancelled my order though, as I'm not confident in my choice. I appreciate the criticism. Let me be a bit more thorough in what I will be using a new camera for.

 

I play in a band, and will be doing some vlogging work, some rehearsal recordings, play-through videos, and gear demos. There will also be the occasional experiments in music videos eventually too!

This was done on my bandmates Sony A7S. It shows the sort of low-light environment we rehearse in:

 

This I did with my Canon 650D + Yashica combo:

 

This I did with the Canon too:

 

And this:

 

 

 

So basically... I'm very music centric. I had external recorders for my audio, and I don't mind syncing audio afterwards. So recording directly into the camera isn't *THAT* important to me. But having an on-board microphone would be useful for that sync job I suppose.

 

My price research (body only):

A used Sony A6500 - 122,963yen. In GBP this is around £880. So within budget.

A used Fujifilm X-T2 - 135,000yen. In GBP this is around £966. Within budget again.

A brand new Panasonic G85 is £629 from Amazon.co.uk - again, body only. £799 including the kit lens. I cannot find a better price than that here in Japan right now.

 

Japan prices above are all tax-free. I leave Japan on March 9th, so I've got a week or so to decide if I'm going to pick something up here.

 

Would definitely appreciate some guidance, coz I've not looked at cameras for 5 years or so and I'm totally out of touch *as well as* being a total n00b anyway!

 

 

But I'm pretty certain the story will change again, it almost always does.

"I want to upgrade to a mirrorless camera that can do 4K and has better noise performance".

Thanks, you just made my point clear. You also now change your tune and say you're looking at used prices. C'mon...

[DrewTNBD]

Just now, jonpais said:

But I'm pretty certain the story will change again, it almost always does.

"I want to upgrade to a mirrorless camera that can do 4K and has better noise performance".

Thanks, you just made my point clear.

Thanks for the help.

[jonpais]

1 minute ago, DrewTNBD said:

Thanks for the help.

You absolutely want to get the a6500. The Fuji is no good for vlogging and the G80/85 is not great in low light.

[DrewTNBD]

Just now, jonpais said:

You absolutely want to get the a6500. The Fuji is no good for vlogging and the G80/85 is not great in low light.

If I could extend my budget to £1500, is there anything else I should look at?

[jonpais]

1 minute ago, DrewTNBD said:

If I could extend my budget to £1500, is there anything else I should look at?

For sure. For 500 GBP, you can invest in a couple of Fotodiox Flapjacks or an LED 100WB56 + Softbox and improve the look of your videos immensely. 

I just ordered the Fotodiox LED 100WB56 myself. I was hoping to get the Aputure Light Storm, but it's not available here in Vietnam, and it costs double anyhow, though without doubt, it's a better light. The Flapjacks can be battery powered for when you're working outdoors, the LED 100WB56 cannot. 

[jonpais]

Here are some studio shots by Manny Ortiz taken of his wife with the a6500. He's using the larger Flapjack, which would run considerably more money, but which also produces a softer light than the smaller, less expensive units.

 

[hijodeibn]

If you want to improve your shooting you certainly has to use lights, so use the extra money to get some lights like jonpais recommended you.

Regarding the camera, for what you are doing, both G85 and A6500 looks ok for your needs, if you are shooting in very hot environments and you need a very reliable camera probably G85 could be the best option, if not, then A6500 should be your first, but the lights is the most important, shooting in a room without lights is an invitation to bad footage….  

[DrewTNBD]

I do have one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Dimmable-Digital-Camcorder-Panasonic-Samsung/dp/B004TJ6JH6

Which I usually aim at my pedalboard when filming it. In the small room above though, as you can imagine... there isn't really much room for lights - too many guitar amps!!

 

It does get quite hot in there too - again... all the valve amps!!

 

Lots of tests on Youtube though where people have been able to record for hours.

[jonpais]

44 minutes ago, DrewTNBD said:

I do have one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Dimmable-Digital-Camcorder-Panasonic-Samsung/dp/B004TJ6JH6

Which I usually aim at my pedalboard when filming it. In the small room above though, as you can imagine... there isn't really much room for lights - too many guitar amps!!

 

It does get quite hot in there too - again... all the valve amps!!

 

Lots of tests on Youtube though where people have been able to record for hours.

There are also many flexible LED light panels that can be mounted on the wall with gaffers tape. They are silent and draw little power. I would still get the Sony a6500, try it out, if it overheats, return it and get the G80/85. I'm still learning about lighting myself, but you could also probably throw in a couple more tiny spots and add colored gels for a more stylized look. There are several here who shoot bands all the time who could probably give better tips than I can.

[DrewTNBD]

Thanks very much - just reserved a used Sony a6500 for £878. Picking it up tomorrow. I compared the image quality and the Sony does look better than the Panasonic. I also liked how wide open I could get the ISO before it started to introduce noise.

 

Gonna pick up an m42 to e-mount adapter, so I can use my existing Yashica lens... and then I'm gonna go vintage lens shopping to expand my collection.