Cinema5D slates the Panasonic GH5, calls V-LOG and 10bit "unusable" - They're wrong

[Joachim]

Hi Andrew. Just want to say: don't stop. We need voices out here that are not those of corporate video makers. We need your voice. 

[noone]

On ‎3‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 2:35 AM, no_connection said:

Cameralabs clearly set the wrong black and white levels for the X-T2 footage in that test. Clipping the shadows. That also screws up saturation and color.
I didn't realize how fast the A7sII fell apart above ISO51200 due to noise reduction. Just look at that temporal motion NR. The dark spots just dancing around. Looks nice up to that tho.

If it is like the original A7s in HD at least, it is at 102400 that it falls apart.       The intermediate ISOs (64,000 and 80,000) are also ok.

I sometimes set auto ISO to 102400 but that is just to allow it to hopefully go to 80,000.     Otherwise, I set auto ISO to 51200 max for video.      

If I don't set auto ISO high enough, that is when I see ghosting becoming an issue more often.

[fuzzynormal]

6 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Considering the guy can't clean his lens, or shoot two test shots at the same f-stop, not sure how much I particularly want to trust his results or how he's applying the color grade.  That said, it makes sense to get banding from 8-bit log.

On second viewing, looks more like a filthy sensor. 

[PannySVHS]

8 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Considering the guy can't clean his lens, or shoot two test shots at the same f-stop, not sure how much I particularly want to trust his results or how he's applying the color grade.  That said, it makes sense to get banding from 8-bit log.

 

That is funny, fuzzy. Normal. Right? Makes uber sense and fun to stick around here and even more keep contributing due to cool people 

ideas and vibes in this place. Thanks to Andrew who built this community and spirit and opportunity. So, Fuzzy, you´re spot on. And because of guys

like you this forum is spot on. A great place to exchange and find inspiration. Thank you, Andrew!

[jase]

On 8.3.2017 at 1:12 AM, jonpais said:

Thanks so much for sharing this video, Charles. Also, you just might have sold me on the Leica 12mm f/1.4.

I second that...

[kaylee]

15 hours ago, Joachim said:

Hi Andrew. Just want to say: don't stop. We need voices out here that are not those of corporate video makers. We need your voice. 

^^^ this

Andrew, please dont go – if nothing else consider blogging about more personal projects and your workflow for what youre doing at the moment? or whatever!  i think i speak for a lot of people when i say that id read your blog if it was about what youre eating for dinner ?

[LPG]

Andrew, please don't quit!

I have learned so much on this blog.

I know we live in a thoroughly controlled and commercialised world, and it is frustrating to see the commercial chaps dominate the scene. It is indeed ridiculous that Panasonic doesn't send you a GH5, but it is also understandable and maybe even a compliment! The industry likes smooth guys for reviewing and one could accuse you of all kind of things, but a smooth guy you're not!

Therefore it is vital that guys like you and Gordon of Cameralabs and others who share a passion and an independent mind won't give up. Gordon adds a paypal link for buying him a cup of coffee, and I think thats a great solution.

Why don't you add links to Buy me a beer? You live in Germany, so that seems quite appropriate. It would cover some of your costs and enable you to buy or rent the equipment and continue writing in an independent way.

BTW I do like John of Cinema5d. He seems to be symphatetic and he doesn't feel too snobby to test some consumer stuff.

I hope you'll find ways to continue Eoshd!

[Souto]

Slashcam.de is a very trustful resource for anyone interested in videos. For years I use their unbiased knowledge in matter cameras and other stuff. There is an English version of their site, but all tests come first in German. See in their careful test that the 10 bit file works fine in comparison with the 8 bit (look at the forehead of the doll on the adjusted image -  last one): https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Panasonic-GH5---8-Bit--10-Bit--4-2-2--V-Log-L---alles-OK----Die-GH5-in-der-10-Bit-Praxis.html#Die_G  

[hyalinejim]

Additional video from slashcam.de, GH5 internal V-Log 10bit versus 8bit

 

[Bkn Soc of Cinematography]

So far in all of this lively discussion the link below has been the best information on the GH5's potential. All these "lab" tests mean little to me compared to seeing footage used in a edited film. While I do conduct tests all the time to find a camera's limits and give me direction to its potential, nothing beats a shoot. Despite liking what I see in the link, I do wish I'd see more tests or sample footage would involve flesh and bone humans in front of the camera and a little camera movement rather than the usual Phillip Bloom style "moving stills" approach. I've nothing against that style of shooting but it seems to overwhelm the sample footage these days. We all don't make landscape films to easy listening tunes. I'd love to see some stories, docs, etc shot on this camera because at the end of the day, we don't shoot to make tests.

Andrew, there was a Thai filmmaker you once featured that made an amazing short on perhaps a 5D (not sure) about a kick boxer I believe. I wish Panasonic would put the camera in his hands. That's the type of shooting that would tell me a lot about the camera - how flesh tone, movement, contrast, etc play into the drama. But I guess Panasonic (and Sony, and Canon, and....) rather give it to safe bets, blog presence or pretty ladies in Japanese gardens and other cinematic pablum.

 

 

[hyalinejim]

Have you tried searching on vimeo for GH%? There should be three or four videos there that are actual pieces in their own right, as opposed to mere test footage.

[Hitfabryk]

Andrew, please don't stop. I am visiting for many years already, can't miss it.

 

[hyalinejim]

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

Have you tried searching on vimeo for GH%? There should be three or four videos there that are actual pieces in their own right, as opposed to mere test footage.

Should have typed "GH5" - too late to edit post now.

[fuzzynormal]

2 hours ago, Bkn Soc of Cinematography said:

Phillip Bloom style "moving stills" approach. We all don't make landscape films to easy listening tunes.

I've never really re-visited his blog much because of this.  Valuable info there, just wasn't really attracted to the style or content.

[dantheman]

2 hours ago, Bkn Soc of Cinematography said:

All these "lab" tests mean little to me compared to seeing footage used in a edited film. While I do conduct tests all the time to find a camera's limits and give me direction to its potential, nothing beats a shoot..... I'd love to see some stories, docs, etc shot on this camera because at the end of the day, we don't shoot to make tests.
 

I like Johnnie Behiri's mini-docs a lot when he tests new camera's and I wish more sites that do reviews would follow his example instead of only talk about a camera, pixelpeep and use blown up framegrabs. Ideally it should be a combination of both, a detailed test like Gordon Laing at cameralabs does but geared towards videofunctionality only and then add a nicely shot short documentary. Until that happens our only choice is to look at as many reviews and uservideos, try to filter out the crap and try to make a informed decision before buying to eventually find out the camera has flaws that have not been mentioned by anyone so far.  

[Bkn Soc of Cinematography]

9 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Should have typed "GH5" - too late to edit post now.

Just did a search on Vimeo. Thanks. Found some great footage by James Miller. Anyone who say this camera is "unusable" needs to shoot something other than tests. The IQ IMO stomps on my A7s II in terms of color space. In fact, it gets a depth I don't see on the FS5/7. I'm torn. I plan on selling my A7s II in the coming weeks to help finance either a BMC UMP or GH5. Both have their up and downsides. But lately, I've been going smaller and more discreet so I'm leaning towards the GH5. With a speed booster - outstanding.

[Fritz Pierre]

9 hours ago, Bkn Soc of Cinematography said:

Just did a search on Vimeo. Thanks. Found some great footage by James Miller. Anyone who say this camera is "unusable" needs to shoot something other than tests. The IQ IMO stomps on my A7s II in terms of color space. In fact, it gets a depth I don't see on the FS5/7. I'm torn. I plan on selling my A7s II in the coming weeks to help finance either a BMC UMP or GH5. Both have their up and downsides. But lately, I've been going smaller and more discreet so I'm leaning towards the GH5. With a speed booster - outstanding.

Yes...the skin tones on the James Miller footage are beautiful!...add to that overall image quality...stabilization....the controlled rack focus feature (no small thing by itself!) plus a ridiculously long list of additional  features, and this camera becomes an easy choice...simply nothing approaching it even remotely, within a few thousand $'s in IMO...glad Panny takes their time with the GH releases and just keeps upping the standards that other companies then play catch-up to!

[jahwah]

Adding my voice to the don't quit chorus. More voices are always better, especially when they add to the discussion.

What's weird to me about all of these discussions about a technical issue is basically, who cares? I'm not trying to be flip about it, but ask yourselves, who cares? If it informs your choice of cameras and when to use them and how, then great, but other than that... the GH5 10 bit unusable? Hardly! I regularly see cases of aliasing and other more obvious problems on shows I dearly love that are very successful, but it doesn't matter. The writing, the directing, the acting, everything else (god even the cinematography in these shows the rest of the time) are fucking great! So I don't care, nor do the millions of other viewers who also love these shows. Focus on writing, focus on directing, focus on creative shots and impactful story based cinematography, focus on finding other creative people to collaborate with and make something that you give a shit about with whatever camera you can get!

Rant done, thanks.

[Neumann Films]

I think the point is...make an informed decision, don't just throw your money away on an inferior product.  I mean, we do this with every other purchase, why would a camera be any different?  Sure, it serves a purpose, but it's still your hard earned money and you need that purchase to do very specific things. 

[yoclay]

Well, that was a pretty nasty little article.  Why bother ?  The guys over at Cinema5D are trying hard just like everyone else.  Andrew, you talk about them basically as if they were corporate shills, but on the other hand I remember very clearly you promoted the Zacuto eye, saying what a great small EVF for small DSLR cameras

Quote

Shipping from April 25th, the Gratical Eye is something I’ve been waiting a long time for, to pair with cameras like the Panasonic GH4, Canon 1D C and Sony A7S II – a super compact EVF which rivals the beautiful new Leica SL EVF for image quality. It features a very large 0.61″ panel (similar to the Leica SL’s 0.66″ EVF) and packs 5 million dot resolution versus the 4.4 million of the Leica SL’s. - Andrew Reid

 

and when I pointed out repeatedly that it had no HDMI input (only SDI so really not adapted at all to those cameras) in your forum, not once ever did you respond.  The point is that your criticism can be extremely harsh, yet I don't see you holding yourself to the very same standards you ask of other people.  It's obvious that not once did you try the product with the DSLR's you mentioned or even consider such a glaring error, so what was that article?  Nothing but an empty promo in the end, right ?

I don't point this out to shame you, but merely to say that your article seems harsh, strident and unfair.  You really seem to have a chip on your shoulder. You could have just as easily rebutted their findings with the points you made in a more gracious manner.  In the current climate do we really need more harsh hate filled rhetoric these days ? Maybe they got it right, maybe they didn't on the GH5, but it's important to cut everyone a little slack now and then.