Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 22, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 22, 2013 Not true, at least for photography. Canon EOS 300D: first consumer dslr Canon EOS 5D: first fullframe consumer dslr Canon EOS 5D Mark II: first fullframe dslr with film function Up till the 5D II and 550D, Canon was always pretty innovative and providing a lot of bang for your bucks. They were an innovative company up to the point of the world-wide recession and global financial troubles in 2008-09. This scared the Japanese corporations into being more conservative and consolidating what they had. They've also had to contend with a dying compact camera market, natural disasters, unfavourable currency rates and in the case of Sony & Panasonic, a dying TV market. For an entire generation of people compacts and TVs have given way to phones and computers. Canon and Panasonic should be providing their optics and sensors to smart phone makers like Sony. The cameras should be refreshed every year to take advantage of doubling CPU speeds. They need to get their house in order and stop acting like photographic companies and more like the computer companies they'll need to become in order to compete in the future. jgharding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 The cameras should be refreshed every year to take advantage of doubling CPU speeds. They need to get their house in order and stop acting like photographic companies and more like the computer companies they'll need to become in order to compete in the future. That's a massive waste and not environmental friendly at all. They do that with consumer products and offer no real benefits with it. If they were to give us the best possible cameras on their professional range, followed by proper firmware updates, I don't see why they couldn't last for at least 3 years. We should spend our time and money making movies, not buying cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 22, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 22, 2013 We're clearly not getting what we pay for and we're being ripped off. 4K raw clearly does not cost what filmmakers are currently being charged for it, because a mass produced CMOS sensor can do it in a $300 camera. I just want to see an end to the profiteering and lack of progress. The Japanese have been sitting on their hands and have had a monopoly on the DSLR market. Where is the American photographic giant, apart from bankrupt? Where is the British camera manufacturer? Germany has one but they don't play in the consumer market. I find it incredible that Japan is the only big player in this. It is time for a Blackmagic to do for DSLRs what they have done for raw digital cinema cameras, but at considerably higher volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_tee_vee Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 It's funny how the Japanese imaging leaders (Canon and Nikon) are using the American auto industry (i.e. Ford, GM) as the basis for their business models. They are trying to sell the most products to the largest target audience while taking the least amount of risk. If you follow EOSHD.com, the you are likely an outlier on Canon and Nikon's mass target audience list. I paint Nikon with the same brush, as they're also out of touch. A D300 successor is nowhere on the horizon, the D800 and D600 QC issues are your fault (not theirs), and the virtues of the V1 and D5200 were unintentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 The one upside to this is I've been able to spend elsewhere while not upgrading camera bodies. I've tried out various different models, bought and sold a few of the other big players, but my image taste and how I use my own gear meant that I just stuck with the 550D and (later) the mosaic filter and Magic Lantern. All the others had more resolution (GH2, Sony mirrorless models, RX100) but I just liked the final image more from the Canon, even though I have to deliver it at 720p. Kind of how some directors just like 16mm, even though 35mm has more resolution and truer colour, you know? Mainly it was with people in motion, faces, I just liked those shots more. So that technically makes me a loyal customer, right? But I'm feeling pretty insulted, because they want me to buy a 5D MKiii to get a small upgrade. I could go get one if I wanted, but why shell out the cash for the tiny gain over what I have now? I resent that. Plus there's no S35 crop mode for some weird reason, and I don't always want DOF that shallow. I want to keep that look I have now, but with more of the same. With my personal kit they're saying "OK, have another little bit on top for £2000, you'll still have to hack it though (5D MKiii), or have a lot more fidelity for £5000, but in that model you get a crap codec and no high-speed (C100), because we'll sell you those manufacturing-and-research-cost free additions for a total of £11000 (C300). What a silly way to behave. I just don't think it's big or clever, or sensible in the long run. It makes someone who would otherwise stick with the brand try out every other thing that comes along. That damages reputation, and countless long-term relationships with the brand, which is now seen as quite arrogant. So I'm a current consumer customer and someone who influences the purchasing decisions in my broader friendship network. I also influence hire and purchase decisions at production companies. Recently I've been assisting in speccing more jobs with higher-end gear for adverts and suchlike. So when I come to spec up do I choose Red Epic, Alexa or C500? Usually Epic because of the RAW Codec and high speed, sometimes Alexa if it's a more drama based piece (XR model with high speed will mean more hires), as it gives you a movie or BBC TV look depending on lenses (Cooke or Zeiss etc) and lighting. But never the C500. Because in that arena, the comparative spec is very poor, they lose the hire every time. What goes around, as they say... Brand loyalty is usually a concern for large companies, but Canon appear to urinating on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Rental prices are not what they used to be, you can rent a 5D for a weekend for $100, or a BMCC for $250, with batteries, monitor, drives and shoulder mount, ready to shoot. Not only the price is accessible, but you get options to choose the best kit based on what you're shooting, instead of having your shoot limited by the gear you own. It's great to own a nice camera kit that you can use for no budget projects or just to practice and shoot random stuff, but when it comes to proper work, rental might be a better option. Ownership is becoming a thing of the past in so many areas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomekk Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 That's a crazy thing to say, nonsense. Without innovation you have no product. Canon have the same products they had 4 years ago and it is only through a lack of competition, good marketing and people being locked into Canon lenses that they are still market leaders with those same products. It is innovation that has lead to the smart phone market taking over from the compact camera market in terms of point & shoot photography. How often do you see Ixus snaps on Facebook these days? I also expect Apple made a bit of money from innovating with the iPhone!! So yeah - innovation doesn't make money right? Christ. Execution is by far the most important aspect of making money. Apple innovated Iphone? LMAO. You could buy smartphone long before Iphone. Apple's execution was just the best. Same with Ipad etc. They haven't made anything new. They are just brilliant at execution. To give you and idea. http://funnypicturesplus.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tablet-ipad-surface-star-trek.jpg Christ?... Stick to filmmaking. That's who you are. Your other theories.... aren't exactly as good as your videos. It's not a surprise though, it's not your field. It's just sad you don't acknowledge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Mand Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Rental prices are not what they used to be, you can rent a 5D for a weekend for $100, or a BMCC for $250, with batteries, monitor, drives and shoulder mount, ready to shoot. Not only the price is accessible, but you get options to choose the best kit based on what you're shooting, instead of having your shoot limited by the gear you own. It's great to own a nice camera kit that you can use for no budget projects or just to practice and shoot random stuff, but when it comes to proper work, rental might be a better option. Ownership is becoming a thing of the past in so many areas... It really depends where you live, people consider only US rentals, but in other places like Europe, South America, Asia, it can be hard to rent camera gear for a good price... It's insane some prices. For example, you can rent a Red easily in LA, but try renting it in Spain or Brazil... It's expensive as hell and hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 22, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 22, 2013 It makes zero sense to rent a camera as cheap as a DSLR most of the time especially considering the price of a used GH2 or 550D. If you do more than 5 days shooting a year you will spend more on renting a camera body than on buying a camera body! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 It makes zero sense to rent a camera as cheap as a DSLR most of the time especially considering the price of a used GH2 or 550D. If you do more than 5 days shooting a year you will spend more on renting a camera body than on buying a camera body! It depends on what you shoot and what your needs are. A 550D camera body may be inexpensive, but you can't shoot with just the body. Also, if I rent I can get a C300 or 5Dmk3, instead of sticking to a more fragile 550D, and if it fails they'll give you a new one. What's the point spending all the money on a camera and accessories if you don't have a backup when it fails? Cause you definitely don't want it to fail when you finally gathered your small cast and crew to shoot your film. It's all very relative, but the point is that the quest for the perfect camera to own is an endless one, and while you're on that quest you're probably not making your movies, which should be priority number one. If you're renting a camera for a specific project you're not worried about the camera not being future proof or not having those features you thought would be really cool but will actually never need, or the endless accessories you need to buy so you can actually use it properly, and then a new model comes out. Repeat. Digital technology is not future proof, period. Old cinema cameras could be nice and even valuable collectibles, but old digital technology is just worthless junk. With the price of a 5D and a couple extra lenses you can rent a 5D and save at least $2k for the actual film production. If you have a story worth telling, $2k can take you a long way when doing a short film. And if you do it right, you might not need to buy a camera ever again. Geeking out on cameras is all very cool, but maybe avoiding camera lust just for the sake of it could turn out to be a good thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 22, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 22, 2013 There's a reason DSLRs were nearly the death of the rental market. Given that quality for that price, filmmakers saw no need to rent. Do you remember when Philip Bloom was shooting with the 7D? On Red Tails? The rental market was really going through a tough time because indies were using DSLRs instead of renting an EX1. Then the C300 came along and solved all that. It makes sense to rent an FS700 if you need slow-mo, it makes sense to rent a F55 if you need a global shutter and 4K... And so on. To rent a 5D and put an arbitrary time limit on your shoot and a daily overhead is silly when you could have owned one for not much more and shot with it for 3 years solid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 22, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 22, 2013 Execution is by far the most important aspect of making money. Apple innovated Iphone? LMAO. Execution is important... If you have an idea to execute. Let's follow your logic and execute on nothing... LAMAOAOAOO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 that's another reason I've not bought a new body. Lenses yes... But body hire is good for things with budgets I shot two videos in one weekend with the FS700 and used my own lenses. 250 pounds of hire for all the kit and the metabones EF adaptor and batteries and cards and so on... On the budget. When it's unbudgeted shoots or personal things I can use what I've got. I suppose i could buy something for both... But I haven't a need at the moment. But I want to ;) it's lust really. The busiest camera guy I know doesn't own anything. Not even a tripod. The other busiest has a C300. Theres loads of ways to do it! It is a fair point, if you have a totally awesome story and shoot it and get picked up you're less likely to need to need to care. It's pretty competative out there though... Bruno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 That's what I love about cheap video cameras like DSLRs, I can constantly practice, and then I I wanna use a red for a day, I can make magic without bankruptcy. Woop! Bruno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomekk Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Execution is important... If you have an idea to execute. Let's follow your logic and execute on nothing... LAMAOAOAOO So you have lost money, what's your point? I know, you don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 22, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 22, 2013 That's what I love about cheap video cameras like DSLRs, I can constantly practice, and then I I wanna use a red for a day, I can make magic without bankruptcy. Woop! Yep the choice is there. Own a DSLR and rent the expensive stuff. I've always found ownership more satisfying though, but it depends on what you do with the camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I think things will change a lot when Blackmagic have worked through their backorder list. It may take a couple more months, but when you can walk into your dealer and choose between walking out with a BMCC and, well, any competing camera below $10k, I think many will make the obvious choice and buy the BMCC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Not true, at least for photography. But for their video division, very true. BTW where does all this "Canon is losing money"-stuff come from? It looks like they are still doing pretty well. End of January: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323701904578273061369407422.html http://www.marketwatch.com/story/canon-profit-falls-04-sees-14-growth-for-2013-2013-01-30 In the same time, things look worse for Nikon too. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-06/nikon-cuts-profit-outlook-on-price-drops-it-expects-to-continue.html And how about Blackmagic? How is their profit situation going? Maybe start analyzing all the players instead of horseshoeing your particular prejudices around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 24, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 24, 2013 I don't have any prejudices, just eyes. That was the Christmas quarter. October 25th 2012 - 36% net fall, 42% operating profit fall http://www.marketwatch.com/story/canon-profit-falls-356-well-below-forecast-2012-10-25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush_iam Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Andrew! EOSHD! According to CNET preview - 3x digital zoom crop mode is returned in 700D!!! http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/canon-eos-rebel-t5i/4505-6501_7-35642128.html It is great news so it makes 700D worth upgrade/newcamera for 550D/650D/60D users. And 600D users can have cleaner ISO with 700D's DIGIC V, without lose of crop-mode useful feature. So, you can change your article to more positive :) or write new with updated info. UPDATE: seems like video crop mode was only in pre-production model :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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