jonpais Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Double-posting seems to be all the rage, so I thought I'd partake in it myself. I've written at length about my dislike of slow, variable aperture universal zooms before, but my thoughts are scattered throughout the forum, and this is as good a place as any to consolidate my feelings in one place. I can’t recall ever seeing a negative review over at Mirror Lessons, but this is as close as it comes. To my shock and horror, they recommend getting the Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 or the Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 instead. Just one reason being, the Leica 12-60 is really only f/2.8 at 12mm, which is why I’ve been calling it the Leica 12-60mm f/4. Not at all unlike Olympus’ exaggerated claims that their $2,000.00 Made in Vietnam OMD EM1 Mark II shoots video at a max bit rate of 237 Mbps, when in reality, it’s closer to 40 Mbps. Aside from focal length, the light gathering power of a lens is ordinarily the second consideration when shopping around, but it should come as no surprise that not a single person shooting with it in the videos we’ve had the privilege of viewing up until now has mentioned the fact that the Leica is not as fast as they would have you believe. Nor have any of Panasonic’s representatives. Other reasons to avoid the Leica include onion bokeh balls at the edges of the frame (the bokeh isn’t the most attractive I’ve seen, due to its somewhat busy appearance), poor correction for barrel distortion and vignetting until f/5.6 (read: the apertures you’ll be using most often), and high cost (if purchased separately). For those needing the extra reach, the Olympus 12-100mm f/4 is starting to look like great value, with superb optics (for a zoom) and only $200 more than the Leica. Now let’s say you’ve already got the Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 or the Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 and are considering trading it in for the shiny new PanLeica for its dual IS and DFD v.2 autofocus capabilities. What about Panasonic’s DFD autofocus technology? The short answer is, you’re not buying the GH5 for its brilliant AF performance. And what exactly constitutes reliable AF anyhow? Say the GH5 has a 60% keeper rate in stills mode (just pulled that number out of my ass, too lazy to check my facts as usual). Then we can safely say that AF-C in video mode will be slightly less effective, can’t we? Let’s say it’s only 10% less. Sounds pretty good, doesn’t it? If I were playing the Lotto, those would be terrific odds. So, if I’m buying one of Panasonic’s latest tech-tastic lenses with their highly touted DFD v.2, I should be able to rely on it for event shooting, shouldn’t I? Now, let’s just pretend we’re shooting a wedding. Is a keeper rate of 50% good enough for the bride and groom? Of course, this is all imaginary, we’re just playing pretend. Some will argue that they need all Panasonic lenses so they don't run into color matching problems while editing. But Hollywood filmmakers routinely mix footage from GoPro, Black Magic and other brands with Arri. Matching colors shot with the same camera isn't rocket science. And others will contend that only Panasonic lenses can perform the new focus pull hat trick. But wait until everyone starts using the feature and complains about focus breathing! As for dual IS, it’s only going to squeeze an extra half a stop or so of stabilization from Panasonic’s already stabilized lenses: yet I shoot with non-stabilized lenses all the time, and the IBIS of my Lumix G85 works fine. Okay, if you don’t care about onion bokeh balls, I can dig that. And if you’re not convinced that dual IBIS is really not all that important, cool beans. And if you still believe the GH5’s contrast AF will be good enough for your work, that’s wonderful, But – what about this supposed zoom range advantage? Is it really all that useful? I would think, going by that logic, that the Olympus 12-100 would be far more useful, and it’s going to be a superior lens. Because 60mm is neither here nor there as far as I can tell. For those who care about such matters, the Olympus has 80mm longer reach (FF equiv.) and weighs little more than 1-1/3 iPhones more than the Leica. If I were an event shooter, I’d feel way more confident going into a venue knowing I could capture activities going on at a distance as well as up close with the Zuiko. For those absolutely determined to pick up a zoom lens in addition to or as a replacement for their Olympus or Panasonic wide zooms, I’d go for either the proven Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8 v.2, the Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO, or the Olympus 12-100mm f/4. And for the more commonsensical among you, the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 would be an even wiser decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangenz Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I really like the pictures and video taken with the lens so far. Most of the GH5 material seen so far has been shot with it. Pretty amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I'm really not into f/4, otherwise the 12-100mm would've been superb for that. I do like f/2.8 in a zoom, so for me to get the benefits mentioned, but with f/2.8 and for that a shorter range, it's worth looking at the new and updated 12-35mm f/2.8 II (I have the Oly 12-40mm f/2.8 now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 @Cinegain I overlooked the Oly 40-150, added it to my list of zoom options for those who already own a wide zoom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I wonder if anyone would but a Nikon or Canon 24-120 f8 Zoom Lens for more than 80$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 Just now, Nikkor said: I wonder if anyone would but a Nikon or Canon 24-200 f8 Zoom Lens for more than 80$. The thing is, Olympus manufactures its cameras in a third world country where factory workers earn barely more than $200/month. The 50-140mm f/2.8 has a hefty price tag as well ($1,600.00 USD), even though it's made in China. All the prime lenses in my kit are made in Japan, so the high price can at least be partially justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, jonpais said: The thing is, Olympus manufactures its cameras in a third world country where factory workers earn barely more than $200/month. The 50-140mm f/2.8 has a hefty price tag as well ($1,600.00 USD), even though it's made in China. All the prime lenses in my kit are made in Japan, so the high price can at least be partially justified. 100-280 f5.6 Lens for 1600$. Meanwhile in Fullframe Land 80-400 4.5-5.6 for less than 700. http://m.ebay.de/itm/Nikon-AF-VR-Nikkor-80-400mm-1-4-5-5-6-D-ED-/332156115974?hash=item4d560c1c06%3Ag%3ATYcAAOSwOgdYyrfB&_trkparms=pageci%253Ab01cd26c-0d6b-11e7-a946-74dbd1808e99%257Cparentrq%253Aebc41c8215a0a5e0d677dd73fffa9108%257Ciid%253A1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Nikkor said: 100-280 f5.6 Lens for 1600$. Meanwhile in Fullframe Land 80-400 4.5-5.6 for less than 700. http://m.ebay.de/itm/Nikon-AF-VR-Nikkor-80-400mm-1-4-5-5-6-D-ED-/332156115974?hash=item4d560c1c06%3Ag%3ATYcAAOSwOgdYyrfB&_trkparms=pageci%253Ab01cd26c-0d6b-11e7-a946-74dbd1808e99%257Cparentrq%253Aebc41c8215a0a5e0d677dd73fffa9108%257Ciid%253A1 That's not fair. A new Nikon AF VR-Nikkor 80-400mm 1:4.5-5.6 runs over $2,000.00 USD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Ok, where can you find used 50-140 for less than 700? You can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 Just now, Nikkor said: Ok, where can you find used 50-140 for less than 700? You can't. Then that means the Olympus is a better value, because it doesn't depreciate as rapidly as Nikon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, jonpais said: Then that means the Olympus is a better value, because it doesn't depreciate as rapidly as Nikon. That means that for 700$ you can buy a 80-400 4.5-5.6 lens. There is no 40-200 2.8 Olympus lens for 700$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Honestly I just don't understand why someone doesn't make a fast zoom for micro 4/3rds? Is it size? I used the 12-35mm once and actually liked it... wish it had hard stops, but the focus ring was at least tolerable. If Panasonic or Sigma or Tokina came out with 12-35mm f2 lens or a 12-24mm f2 lens, it would make me want a GH5 even more... right now I can only think about primes and I can only afford a used 25mm Voigtlander... of course... with that lens... what more do you need? jase and Cinegain 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 I believe Nikkor is just trying to point out that these m43 lenses are overpriced, and it's hard to disagree with him. Especially when some of them are made in China, and even the Oly 12-40mm f/2.8, a PRO lens, has a plasticized mount, and we'd hope the manufacturer would pass some of the savings along to the consumer. In fact, my premium m43 primes cost nearly as much or even more than my APS-C Fuji lenses. But yes, if anyone doesn't know it by now, you can pick up some used Nikon AIS lenses and a cheap Chinese adapter for $10.00 and do some incredible things with the GH5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Oh yeah, I know what he's saying and he isn't wrong. If I do end up with a GH5, my Nikkors will be waiting, but for convenience it is nice to have a native lens or two... one of my favorite Panny features is their awesome touch af while in manual mode. For run and gun it is a great feature... I guess I'll be looking at the 20mm if I go that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, mercer said: Honestly I just don't understand why someone doesn't make a fast zoom for micro 4/3rds? Is it size? I used the 12-35mm once and actually liked it... wish it had hard stops, but the focus ring was at least tolerable. If Panasonic or Sigma or Tokina came out with 12-35mm f2 lens or a 12-24mm f2 lens, it would make me want a GH5 even more... right now I can only think about primes and I can only afford a used 25mm Voigtlander... of course... with that lens... what more do you need? Yeah, if Sigma can make the 18-35mm f/1.8 for APS-C, imagine what they could do for MFT. They did have the great 19 and 30mm f/2.8 fitted with MFT mount, as well as the 60mm (that I didn't like much, because of the gripless rings styling) and the new 30mm f/1.4. Optically, piece by piece, stunning pieces of glass at super fair prices. They make a zoom, that's like f/1.8-f/2-ish, that's like multiple primes into one, like the 18-35mm f/1.8? mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cinegain said: Yeah, if Sigma can make the 18-35mm f/1.8 for APS-C, imagine what they could do for MFT. They did have the great 19 and 30mm f/2.8 fitted with MFT mount, as well as the 60mm (that I didn't like much, because of the gripless rings styling) and the new 30mm f/1.4. Optically, piece by piece, stunning pieces of glass at super fair prices. They make a zoom, that's like f/1.8-f/2-ish, that's like multiple primes into one, like the 18-35mm f/1.8? Which is why it's regrettable that Panasonic teamed up with the German company instead of the Japanese one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 And you don't even get the red dot to show off with. There's not even 'Leica' on the lens cap. It's really just the name that takes up most of the premium price. Nah, they do have a certain je ne sais quoi, but like you said, they're really squeezing out that lemon as much as they can, when others have high standards... as a standard. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 Didn't someone, either Panasonic or Olympus, make an f2-2.8 12-45mm Four Thirds lens years ago? I know Four Thirds lenses are bigger, as was the cameras they mounted to, but I remember seeing a few really nice videos shot with it. You'd think they'd replicate it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 There's a bunch listed here: http://geizhals.eu/?cat=acamobjo&xf=227_14%7E816_Zoomobjektiv%7E8219_Four-Thirds#gh_filterbox , there's a couple of f/2.8-3.5, even a Leica in there and a killer 14-35mm f/2 ED at mucho dinero however. Never really explored FT. Does anyone have any info? -- It's interesting to see the Amazon ratings for FT optics. Think people back in the day didn't read reviews, didn't shoot charts, they just went out with their new lenses and shot stuff and loved the results. Like all of them only get like 5 or 4 star ratings. Seems like those were much happier days. Or maybe they were just built to much better standards, or pixel peeping hadn't been invented yet. Need to research more 'bout this set-up: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I know there's an electronic adapter to m4/3 but that's about the extent of my knowledge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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