mercer Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 minute ago, PannySVHS said: Kidz´A6500 is the best footage of Sony DSLM night footage I´ve seen, looking like oil paint rather than this akward charcoal look. No banding witnessed there:) @mercer, weren´t you planning on getting a A6500 yourself? Sorry for the temptation, but you must resist and be strong:) Just had to teaze you a bit:) CinedD, well, until now I don´t have so much trust in it at the moment. Though there is some awesome but rarely awesome footage shot with it on vimeos clips. Maybe I should take out my G7, which I have not used at all, and do some CineD filming and give it a try. I had the a6500 last year until I got an overheating warning in 40 degree Fahrenheit weather. The camera never shut off, but it scared me so I returned it for a credit... that credit gave me the boost to save up for the 5D3... So I have a soft spot for the a6500 on multiple levels. As far as CineLikeD... I wouldn’t shoot with any other profile on a Panasonic. The perfect bump in DR and with the underexposure, as @kidzrevil mentioned, the color looks great to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 53 minutes ago, mercer said: C’mon you gotta at least try sLog3. I know there are reports of banding issues but I would think that may be limited comsidering you shoot in the city and get very limited open sky shots. The color and detail is insane in sLog3. Honestly, I was kinda hoping your due diligence with testing cameras’ capabilities would crack the sLog3 on the a6500 and tempt me to buy another one eventually. Hmmm i’ll take a shot at it. After researching it its really seems like a waste on an 8 bit camera. It mimics a cineon film curve and even 10bit doesn’t even have enough color to represent that much data. Besides there are very few if not any real world items that needs a curve designed for such a large color gamut. Not even a tomato is red enough to use all the red channel data in the sgamut3 or even the sgamut3.cine color space. Its a technical achievement and extremely wasteful at the same time. You’re actually losing a serious amount of data shooting with such a wide color gamut and a curve that chops off data on the shadow end and the highlight. I really believe the gradual highlight compression from the cinegamma curves with pro,itun709,stills or movie color gamma deliver better results with this camera since they were designed with 8 bits 0-109% ire. Hopefully exposing as far to the right as possible and transcoding to 1080p 10bit 4444 helps alleviate all that missing data with slog3 @PannySVHS try cined with -5 noise reduction and sharpening, -3 saturation, and 0 contrast. Use the preset whitebalance or custom white balance. Set Zebras to 90% and one for skintones at 60% and shoot at the lowest iso possible stick within the 200-640 ISO. I personally use FILMCONVERT for cinelike D as it has been the most reliable/accurate color to me but I do use visioncolor impulz cined & koji color advance solely for stylistic looks. A lil thing about Cine D I noticed since it was design for broadcast cameras the curve seems to be optimized for up to 90% ire 95%ire seems to be extra (overshoot) data. It’s not quite highlight compression but color gets ugly above 90% like its gradually losing saturation/data at this point forward going up to 110% ire. This makes sense because not only cant we distinguish texture at this brightness the codec doesn’t prioritize data at this region. Exposing like this you’ll consistently get images that don’t have that ghastly washed out look with the weird skintones we all hate. Thats roughly -2/3 to -1 stop underexposure. The cined and v curves like cinegamma were designed to give us some headroom in post to adjust our midtones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 @mercer try using it with the meike battery grip. The dummy battery moves most of the heat away from the sensor and towards the battery grip. I seen a video on youtube with a guy doing this with his sony a6000 in direct sunlight. My camera barely gets warm with the grip I wish sony would wise up and make an official one made of the same magnesium alloy. It would double as a heatsink ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 47 minutes ago, mercer said: I had the a6500 last year until I got an overheating warning in 40 degree Fahrenheit weather. The camera never shut off, but it scared me so I returned it for a credit... that credit gave me the boost to save up for the 5D3... So I have a soft spot for the a6500 on multiple levels. As far as CineLikeD... I wouldn’t shoot with any other profile on a Panasonic. The perfect bump in DR and with the underexposure, as @kidzrevil mentioned, the color looks great to me. guess I´ll have to check myself then:) 48 minutes ago, kidzrevil said: @PannySVHS A lil thing about Cine D I noticed since it was design for broadcast cameras the curve seems to be optimized for up to 90% ire 95%ire seems to be extra (overshoot) data. It’s not quite highlight compression but color gets ugly above 90% like its gradually losing saturation/data at this point forward going up to 110% ire. This makes sense because not only cant we distinguish texture at this brightness the codec doesn’t prioritize data at this region. Exposing like this you’ll consistently get images that don’t have that ghastly washed out look with the weird skintones we all hate. Thats roughly -2/3 to -1 stop underexposure. The cined and v curves like cinegamma were designed to give us some headroom in post to adjust our midtones. will check that out, though not so much well looking cineD footage outthere besides yours or some Italian wedding footage with the GH5 in 10bit. kidzrevil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBobsPhotography Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 53 minutes ago, kidzrevil said: @mercer try using it with the meike battery grip. The dummy battery moves most of the heat away from the sensor and towards the battery grip. I seen a video on youtube with a guy doing this with his sony a6000 in direct sunlight. My camera barely gets warm with the grip I wish sony would wise up and make an official one made of the same magnesium alloy. It would double as a heatsink ! I have attached a 10000mA power bank to my camera cage which charges the camera through USB. Helps with the heat issue, I never run out of battery and the added weight is good for stabilisation. I'm using the RX1RM2, but it should work for the a6500 too. kidzrevil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 @UncleBobsPhotography great idea ! I seen a guy with a power bank mounted onto his hotshoe on youtube and he doesn’t get the overheating issue neither. It seems the way the hardware is designed with that little battery getting so hot next to the sensor is what is aggravating the thermal issue. Moving that power source away from the camera seems to be the big fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBobsPhotography Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 18 minutes ago, kidzrevil said: @UncleBobsPhotography great idea ! I seen a guy with a power bank mounted onto his hotshoe on youtube and he doesn’t get the overheating issue neither. It seems the way the hardware is designed with that little battery getting so hot next to the sensor is what is aggravating the thermal issue. Moving that power source away from the camera seems to be the big fix. This setup is really good for stability. The moment of inertia is moved so far away from the handle and with the lens in the middle, that it largely made up for my lack of OIS. thefactory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted October 5, 2017 Super Members Share Posted October 5, 2017 @UncleBobsPhotography do you have a Vimeo or Youtube where I can watch what you get out of the RX1rii? Very curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, PannySVHS said: guess I´ll have to check myself then:) will check that out, though not so much well looking cineD footage outthere besides yours or some Italian wedding footage with the GH5 in 10bit. The benefits of 10bit is imperceptible unless you use an extremely flat profile (log) that takes advantage of the subtle shades crammed into the curve. The benefits of the gh5 that are perceptible are 4:2:2 color sampling and an improved sensor. Cine D is designed for 8bit so the advantages for 10bit color are next to none. Transcoding to 4:4:4 10bit allows me to interpolate the extra shades of color from the existing 8bit file as well as clean chroma. I think my footage looks as good as it does because I take time learning the curves and how they were designed to function to maximize your grading workflow. Cine D’s curve is built to ensure linearity in the midtones. The extreme shadows and highlights aren’t prioritized. If you expose with the understanding that the camera & codec can careless about anything other than midtones you will see how great cine curves are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBobsPhotography Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 10 hours ago, Mattias Burling said: @UncleBobsPhotography do you have a Vimeo or Youtube where I can watch what you get out of the RX1rii? Very curious. I'm sorry, but I don't have any publicly available content. When it comes to the RX1RII, the bokeh is extremely pleasant, but I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy it for video work. It has overheating issues at 1080p (shuts down after 5 minutes without using a powerbank) and lacks the super35 crop of the a7rII, so you're stuck with a single focal length. The electronic image stabilization is also unusable. I don't know how it process the 1080p, so I'm curious to find out how it performs in low light compared with other modern cameras. I would guess it uses the same implementation as the a7rII, but I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted October 6, 2017 Super Members Share Posted October 6, 2017 No I wouldn't think about getting it for video, just curious what people make with it. I always enjoyed the video from the A7 and I guess its similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I’ve been doing some research on slog3 and actually took some test shots with it today based on @mercer suggestion to use it and woah. In daylight I am pleasantly surprised by the results. It graded incredibly well after being converted to 10bit 444 1080. Im gonna test shoot with a model today during sunset to see how it holds up in lower light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, kidzrevil said: I’ve been doing some research on slog3 and actually took some test shots with it today based on @mercer suggestion to use it and woah. In daylight I am pleasantly surprised by the results. It graded incredibly well after being converted to 10bit 444 1080. Im gonna test shoot with a model today during sunset to see how it holds up in lower light Wicked, I can’t wait to see. Do you just call up models and see if they’re available, or did you already have a shoot planned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I called one up to shoot in the city. I think I figured out how to expose for this thing. If you dont mind sacrificing highlights you can push a lot of useful data into the shadow and midtone areas of the image. I also think I got to the bottom of the banding “problem” with slog3 @mercer A couple of accessories later and the ergonomics are vastly improved. The thumb,battery grip and viewfinder attachments really helps with the stability. Leica M or nikkor ais primes will go well with the size of the body @Kisaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 slog3 with sgamut3.cine is promising ! It has a way of desaturating brighter colors like film that I just love. If you pull your shadows down in post the image is crazy ! thanks for suggesting slog3 @mercer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 8 hours ago, kidzrevil said: slog3 with sgamut3.cine is promising ! It has a way of desaturating brighter colors like film that I just love. If you pull your shadows down in post the image is crazy ! thanks for suggesting slog3 @mercer Dude, just retire from all camera and color testing and shoot a feature film with whatever you just did there. I keep saying a modern day Mean Streets with your visuals would be awesome and this 80s film look is phenomenal!!! PM me the special sauce though. What iso did you shoot that at? kidzrevil, iamoui and jase 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 Oh trust me I remembered thats why I bought the a6500 lmao ! The GH5's aesthetic wasn't far off from the G80 in terms of the look so I went with the a6500 with speedbooster to start shooting shorts ! Im keeping my pana g80 for event recaps and projects I don't have time to grade since cinelike v is so good. I shot the above video at iso 800 I bumped up the in camera saturation in the SLOG3 settings. Since the color gamut is so wide I figure there's no way I can oversaturate the thing, If anything I can desaturate in post. I gotta figure out how high we can raise the in camera saturation before we get weird color shifts. Im gonna play around with the detail section of the picture profile in an attempt to tame the in camera sharpness. @mercer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jase Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @kidzrevil whats your experience with the screen during 4k recording and bright daylight? Or dont you care because you use the EVF anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 The a6500 lcd is useless. Absolutely useless. I use the evf so it doesn’t bother me much. If you use the lcd as your shooting style I suggest you look elsewhere cause the sony will give you a headache @jase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jase Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, kidzrevil said: The a6500 lcd is useless. Absolutely useless. I use the evf so it doesn’t bother me much. If you use the lcd as your shooting style I suggest you look elsewhere cause the sony will give you a headache @jase Ok ty. That puts the nail in the coffee, because I use the screen for 99% of my style of shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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