More love for the Sony A6500?

[kidzrevil]

SLOG3 up to 12,800 iso w/ neat video noise reduction. Worked really well. Im considering upgrading my computer because Neat video does an outstanding job of cleaning up the image. Seriously. It brought the image to new heights with the impulz luts for slog3. Sgamut3 makes bright colors brighter instead of more saturated like film and the impulz luts do the same so they compliment each other ! Also colorista 4 does the best job of adjusting the exposure allowing you to get clean pull processed images

[Deadcode]

kidzrevil you did exceptionally good job in this thread. Your grades are awesome and filmic.

However i have to point out some misunderstandings:

There is no point to use Slog3 on 8 bit cameras

why you lose color tonality with sgamut on 8 bit sony cameras

In one of your post you said you could overexpose about +5 stops without clipping. In this case you used only a small percent of the available tonal range with slog3. But the grade looked very good. But if you film in Cine4 and use Filmconvert on it, it would look the same, but it would hold up much better if you have to grade it heavily with Power windows in Davinci Resolve.

Don't underestimate Pro gamut, i think it's the most accurate of all but yes it can clip colors compared to s-gamut.

I dont want to offend you and i think you did a great job, but if you read those threads above, maybe you reconsider some of your findings.

[kidzrevil]

this weekend I decided to use sony's official LUT for converting slog 2 & 3 to rec709 and the results were amazing to me. The image was converted from ugly sgamut colors to exactly the colors I seen as  I shot these scenes. After further investigation of the LUT and research of sgamut I've concluded that sgamut is a little too complicated to be converted to rec709 with a LUT designed by anyone but a sony engineer. I tried visioncolor impulz,koji and filmconvert and none come close to sony's official lut in terms of color accuracy. I will be using these from now on to convert to rec709 then I'll grade from there. The images I attached were overexposed up to 3 stops and pulled back to the correct levels using colorista iv. This makes slog2 footage actually usable for me

[kidzrevil]

16 hours ago, Deadcode said:

kidzrevil you did exceptionally good job in this thread. Your grades are awesome and filmic.

However i have to point out some misunderstandings:

There is no point to use Slog3 on 8 bit cameras

why you lose color tonality with sgamut on 8 bit sony cameras

In one of your post you said you could overexpose about +5 stops without clipping. In this case you used only a small percent of the available tonal range with slog3. But the grade looked very good. But if you film in Cine4 and use Filmconvert on it, it would look the same, but it would hold up much better if you have to grade it heavily with Power windows in Davinci Resolve.

Don't underestimate Pro gamut, i think it's the most accurate of all but yes it can clip colors compared to s-gamut.

I dont want to offend you and i think you did a great job, but if you read those threads above, maybe you reconsider some of your findings.

I don't take any offense by that, we are all learning and that's the best part about this forum

I would take Mr.Chapman's words with a grain of salt. I know he's concerned with using all the available bits within the 8 bit codec but that would make more sense with linear encoding than in log ! Besides I use the zone system to expose my images rather than exposing for midgrey and stuff like he does. I am aware that I used a smaller available range with slog3 but the reason the image looks good is because it is exposed all the way to the final bit the curve can record. Since it LOG can take in a lot more light than the linear curves and that will always provide you a better looking image when pulled back in post. With linear gammas like cine4 you expose lower to protect the highlights then you raise the exposure in post thus moving the noise floor and chroma noise into the visible range like the midtones. So even though I may be using the 50-94 ire area of slog3 in post, when I take that 14 stop curve and shrink it down to the 7 stops I want by lowering the exposure all the noise in the image that lives in the lower stops gets graded away. So to answer your question my ability to expose so high without clipping provides me a much cleaner image than using cinegamma 4 at its proper exposure settings. Trust me I tried it before...but you should test it out yourself.

I used the pro gamut as well. The pro gamut is designed for rec709 and WILL bring color inconsistencies when using a curve designed for LOG. I will only use the pro gamut with the itu709 or cinegamma curves.  The most accurate color comes from custom white balance and using the lut's Sony provides for converting sgamut to rec709. 

[kidzrevil]

more SLOG3 with custom settings

 

[PannySVHS]

 

beautiful looking footage. But why am I thinking about this after watching your footage?   Maybe it´s my love for the arts. Wowi wow wow:)

 

[kidzrevil]

9 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

 

beautiful looking footage. But why am I thinking about this after watching your footage?   Maybe it´s my love for the arts. Wowi wow wow:)

 

Noooo I cant see the videooo ?

[PannySVHS]

oh wow, it´s the official SNL youtube channel. Maybe cuz your in the US and I am not. "Normally I would offer you champanga and kaviarrrrr":)

Or maybe because of embedding the clip on a European forum. Maybe try this: https://www.youtube.com/user/SaturdayNightLive/search?query=continental

[kidzrevil]

@PannySVHS lmao this is funny as hell ! Btw bro did you hear the rumors of the panasonic g9 ?! I knew holding off on a gh5 was a wise move for me

[PannySVHS]

27 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

@PannySVHS lmao this is funny as hell ! Btw bro did you hear the rumors of the panasonic g9 ?! I knew holding off on a gh5 was a wise move for me

yeah, Christopher Walken is a freakin genius. I am watching Key and Peele now. Perfect combination of skit writing and superb acting. Youtube is a time bandit:) G9, are u kidding? I haven´t heard about it. I love Panasonic rumors. Where did you get that from? Maybe @andy lee, could chim in?

[kidzrevil]

@PannySVHS seen it here ! https://www.43rumors.com/ft4-new-panasonic-g9-80-mb-shooting-mode-60-frame-burst/

I hope this makes Panasonic & Sony invest more into their midrange lines. I can see Sony answering back with a sony A7000 with some of the tech from the a7riii and a9 trickling down into the system

[PannySVHS]

 

Maybe 10bit and pixel perfect HD for 999? That would kick tush.

[Cinegain]

Sounds like it's going to be a stills beast... question is... will they clip its wings what video concerns...

[markr041]

More Standard, straight from the camera colors:

 

 

[kidzrevil]

On 10/29/2017 at 3:49 PM, PannySVHS said:

 

Maybe 10bit and pixel perfect HD for 999? That would kick tush.

Im fine with 8bit at 150mbps with 4K 60fps & pixel perfect HD ! Man that GH5 tempts me everytime with their 1080 performance

@markr041 amazing images as usual ! What’s the clipping point of the standard gammas ? Is it 100 ire/zebras or 109 ? 

[Thomas Hill]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 5:52 PM, kidzrevil said:

Man that GH5 tempts me everytime with their 1080 performance

You and markr041 have been tempting me toward the a6500 with all this gorgeous footage but I just snagged an OB GH5 w/12-60 f2.8-4 from Adorama for $1999. Planning to sell the lens and have the body for about the price of the a6500 body (unless I'm totally disappointed and send it back). It feels really good and solid in my hand, controls and menu are intuitive. I'll be taking it for a spin while I'm off work the next few days...pretty excited.

[markr041]

8 hours ago, Thomas Hill said:

You and markr041 have been tempting me toward the a6500 with all this gorgeous footage but I just snagged an OB GH5 w/12-60 f2.8-4 from Adorama for $1999. Planning to sell the lens and have the body for about the price of the a6500 body (unless I'm totally disappointed and send it back). It feels really good and solid in my hand, controls and menu are intuitive. I'll be taking it for a spin while I'm off work the next few days...pretty excited.

Here's a video (not typical of those usually posted here) that could NOT be shot with the GH5, at all - AF and vari-speed power parfocal zoom were essential to capture the unpredictable and constantly moving subjects, which are the hallmark of the event. No Panasonic has sufficient AF capability to quickly lock on to subjects and maintain focus, and no Panasonic zoom lenses are both powered and parfocal (I have a very complete set of Panasonic mirrorless cameras and lenses). Zooming while shooting is, again, essential for sports or any moving action, and zooms must be smooth and not lose focus. The PDAF of the A6500 is very effective. Now, I would have loved to have 4K 60P...

The lens: the Sony 18-105mm G.

[Kisaha]

I have used the a6300 and this lens on many jobs, although it is a great combo and worth the small total price (in my opinion the best Sony lens for the money), I believe you exaggerate a little bit.

Of course it is not a parfocal lens. Not even the 18-110 is a true parfocal lens, and costs more than 3500$ (it limits electronically focus breathing and focus shifting though, which the 18-105 doesn't), and 105mm on the long end is not that much for people filming sports, except maybe table tennis (ping pong). Also, after the corrections, the lens is not 18mm anymore, which makes it almost a 30mm equiv. lens at the wide end, not that wide, really. The best thing about the lens is the stabilizer of course, and that ain't even close to what Panasonic can do on that front (because you brought the GH5 up). This is a good 700$ lens, it is not a great photo lens, nor a cine lens, but for people having Sony APS-C cameras, it is a must buy, even for an every day all arounder,instead of those terrible PZ kit lenses.

[markr041]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

I have used the a6300 and this lens on many jobs, although it is a great combo and worth the small total price (in my opinion the best Sony lens for the money), I believe you exaggerate a little bit.

Of course it is not a parfocal lens. Not even the 18-110 is a true parfocal lens, and costs more than 3500$ (it limits electronically focus breathing and focus shifting though, which the 18-105 doesn't), and 105mm on the long end is not that much for people filming sports, except maybe table tennis (ping pong). Also, after the corrections, the lens is not 18mm anymore, which makes it almost a 30mm equiv. lens at the wide end, not that wide, really. The best thing about the lens is the stabilizer of course, and that ain't even close to what Panasonic can do on that front (because you brought the GH5 up). This is a good 700$ lens, it is not a great photo lens, nor a cine lens, but for people having Sony APS-C cameras, it is a must buy, even for an every day all arounder,instead of those terrible PZ kit lenses.

I agree the lens is not a parfocal design. The points were, and you do not disagree, that no Panasonic camera is capable of zooming while shooting given available zooms by any standards of what constitutes constant focus, and Panasonic cameras including the GH5 have inadequate AF for shooting action. The post was not to tout a particular lens, it was an example of use of the A6500 with a power zoom. Of course the 18-105mm lens is not strictly parfocal and not useful for shooting football from the upper deck (I in fact wanted to say near parfocal). But it did the job here, as shown.

A video trumps words - you saw the video, did you notice focus loss while zooming ? No you did not. In no case was there a distracting loss of focus despite zooming and subjects moving. Nor was there a need for a wider lens or a longer lens. It suited what it was used for in this case. And the point was this was a case in which no Panasonic mirrorless camera could be nearly as effective.

A Panasonic PZ lens completely loses focus, sometimes never getting it back.  For Sony, there is the additional choice of the amazingly expensive PZ electronically parfocal 18-110 lens  that you mentioned or the 18-200mm power zoom (which does not have constant aperture, but does also exhibit minimal loss of focus while zooming). There are no such alternatives for the GH5. I have used all three, and have zoomed while shooting with all three with almost no perceptible focus loss problems. And now there are the parfocal Fjinon zoom lens for e-mount APS-C. Nothing for MFT.

The GH5 has lots of good and unique features, shooting action is its weaknesses. I merely provided actual evidence that the A6500 can do a job that a GH5 could not.

[Thomas Hill]

14 hours ago, markr041 said:

Here's a video (not typical of those usually posted here) that could NOT be shot with the GH5, at all - AF and vari-speed power parfocal zoom were essential to capture the unpredictable and constantly moving subjects, which are the hallmark of the event. No Panasonic has sufficient AF capability to quickly lock on to subjects and maintain focus, and no Panasonic zoom lenses are both powered and parfocal (I have a very complete set of Panasonic mirrorless cameras and lenses). Zooming while shooting is, again, essential for sports or any moving action, and zooms must be smooth and not lose focus. The PDAF of the A6500 is very effective. Now, I would have loved to have 4K 60P...

The lens: the Sony 18-105mm G.

Oh, I completely agree about the AF. But I'm more interested in narrative than event or sports video. When I shoot sports, it's 1) rare and 2) photos like below (shot with an NX500 and a rented 50-150mm 2.8). Also, buying a GH5 now doesn't rule out having a Sony in a year or so or less. You see, I'm a camera serial monogamist who has been known to dabble in camera polyamory. I have shot with every mirrorless brand at some point or other, except Pentax and Leica., plus several 1 inch point and shoots. I've even used both the Nikon V1 and J1 (at the time that they came out, they had the best video AF). My longest camera relationship was with my very first camera which was a Canon Elan II and the runner up...a Sony Nex-5n. Every camera has it's pluses and minuses but I'm always hoping to find "The One." Sounds a lot like my relationships with women minus the dabbles in polyamory.

Even though I now have a Panny, I'll continue to enjoy all the great Sony footage and look for tips and tricks (black mist filters!) that I might be able to experiment with. In other words, we can still be friends, right? ;-)