Tripod + fluid head

[pablogrollan]

12 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

My head is the DS-20 and B&H is listing it at $1311.00

Unbelievably it is cheaper in Europe!!

https://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/miller_184&sourceRef=int%3Asuggest&userInput=miller%20ds20&sid=fmb4b01ijhnv3e0lgstao2akt2

1 hour ago, Inazuma said:

I use a £60 amazon video tripod and a £100 manfrotto MVH500AH fluid head.  Seems conpletely fine for my use even when i had a c100. What am i missing that these other ones costing hundreds have?

Try one -rent it- for a small job and you'll see... it's night and day. Maybe bulkier, but the shooting experience is very different. No need to get to the really high end stuff (O'connor, Cartoni, etc.), even a Sachtler Caddy or a top of the line Benro or Manfrotto is enough.

[jonpais]

2 hours ago, Inazuma said:

I use a £60 amazon video tripod and a £100 manfrotto MVH500AH fluid head.  Seems conpletely fine for my use even when i had a c100. What am i missing that these other ones costing hundreds have?

Also if youre using a slider isnt it always best to attach it to two tripods? Like two £20 tripods would probably work better than one £200 tripod?

I don't have any cheap tripods lying around to do a comparison, so I have to use my light stand and C-stand as a comparison. One is lightweight, and could probably support my LED monolight and softbox. The other is a bit heavier and there is no question it can support the load. But if I tripped over one of them, which would be the first to hit the ground - the light stand or the C-stand? If I were shooting outdoors, which one would withstand the wind better, the C-stand or the light stand? What about materials? The light stand is made of lightweight aluminum, the C-stand is made of more durable materials. Which will probably withstand years of use, the plastic knobs on the light stand or the metal knobs on the C-stand? The light stand cost about $20.00 USD, the C-stand around $100.00, but I've got from $400.00 to $800.00 worth of lights sitting on top. Which am I going to trust? Is the $80.00 in savings buying a light stand worth it? 

[kaylee]

damn i was gonna start a thread abt tripods im glad i didnt wth is going on here ?

do i need to spend $2k on a tripod and head for my 5d3?! just tell me the truth guys i will if i have to

ive got a decent manfrotto tripod with this godawful thing https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/272630-REG/Manfrotto_700RC2_700RC2_Mini_Video_Fluid.html

ive had it for so long i cant even remember buying it smh. it was for like.... a mini dv cam 1000 yrs ago

GOD I WISH THAT HEAD WOULD BREAK SO I COULD BUY A NEW ONE ARRRRGGHH

[jonpais]

8 minutes ago, kaylee said:

damn i was gonna start a thread abt tripods im glad i didnt wth is going on here ?

do i need to spend $2k on a tripod and head for my 5d3?! just tell me the truth guys i will if i have to

ive got a decent manfrotto tripod with this godawful thing https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/272630-REG/Manfrotto_700RC2_700RC2_Mini_Video_Fluid.html

ive had it for so long i cant even remember buying it smh. it was for like.... a mini dv cam 1000 yrs ago

GOD I WISH THAT HEAD WOULD BREAK SO I COULD BUY A NEW ONE ARRRRGGHH

When I was still a prepubescent, about a hundred years ago, I learned that you didn't spend $300.00 on a turntable and match it with $50.00 speakers. I've had that mentality my entire life. So if I'm going to put a $2,000.00 camera, $800.00 lens and a $700.00 adapter on there, I'm not going to trust a $60.00 tripod. Old habits die hard.

[pekoo]

2 hours ago, Inazuma said:

I use a £60 amazon video tripod and a £100 manfrotto MVH500AH fluid head.  Seems conpletely fine for my use even when i had a c100. What am i missing that these other ones costing hundreds have?

Also if youre using a slider isnt it always best to attach it to two tripods? Like two £20 tripods would probably work better than one £200 tripod?

Could you please tell me, what tripod legs did you mean?

I just don´t need top notch tripod, just something usable for a few years... 

[Inazuma]

@jonpais I will have to check out other legs but I have to think the main factor on how much force a tripod can withstand is its weight (of which those expensive carbon fibre ones have little). And by adding a £10 sandbag to a hook on the middle column, even a £30 tripod would be hardpushed too fall over accidentally. 

@pekoo these legs https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Tripod-Video-Camera-Inches/dp/B00CEH7VG8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1491048639&sr=8-3&keywords=amazon+tripod and the fluid head ive just remembered is actually a £40 knockoff of the MVH500AH called the Phot-R VT-3510 

[pekoo]

 

1 hour ago, Inazuma said:

 

@pekoo these legs https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Tripod-Video-Camera-Inches/dp/B00CEH7VG8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1491048639&sr=8-3&keywords=amazon+tripod and the fluid head ive just remembered is actually a £40 knockoff of the MVH500AH called the Phot-R VT-3510 

I saw video of this tripod and the stability looks terrible. It´s all shaking even in low base. But for 50€ it´s real steal.

Manfrotto MVH500AH is better than the amazon one?

 

 

[Fritz Pierre]

@pekoo Here is the first system I bought...no pan or tilt adjustment but very solid and most importantly allows you other camera options and rigs into the future (the buying inadequate gear and selling at a loss in the future quickly starts getting both time consuming and expensive)....I do know this is twice your budget!!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/861080-REG/Libec_LX7_M_LX7_M_Tripod_With.html

I have subsequently added a second set of legs and the Miller head...one set of legs is midspreader for use on uneven surfaces and the other set bottom spreader which allows you to get lower....beyond that I use Hi Hat support to get lower. This combo of tripods are also rock solid for a slider/ dolly system and still somewhat "portable"...and of course I hang 30lbs of sandbags on each set of legs when doing a slider shot.

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

I don't have any cheap tripods lying around to do a comparison, so I have to use my light stand and C-stand as a comparison. One is lightweight, and could probably support my LED monolight and softbox. The other is a bit heavier and there is no question it can support the load. But if I tripped over one of them, which would be the first to hit the ground - the light stand or the C-stand? If I were shooting outdoors, which one would withstand the wind better, the C-stand or the light stand? What about materials? The light stand is made of lightweight aluminum, the C-stand is made of more durable materials. Which will probably withstand years of use, the plastic knobs on the light stand or the metal knobs on the C-stand? The light stand cost about $20.00 USD, the C-stand around $100.00, but I've got from $400.00 to $800.00 worth of lights sitting on top. Which am I going to trust? Is the $80.00 in savings buying a light stand worth it? 

What Jonpais said!

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

When I was still a prepubescent, about a hundred years ago, I learned that you didn't spend $300.00 on a turntable and match it with $50.00 speakers. I've had that mentality my entire life. So if I'm going to put a $2,000.00 camera, $800.00 lens and a $700.00 adapter on there, I'm not going to trust a $60.00 tripod. Old habits die hard.

I have a good friend from Estonia....she always reminded me of a Russian saying "I'm too poor to buy cheap tools!"

[Kisaha]

@Inazuma If you don't move the camera, or do not getting paid for your camera movements, even a table is sufficient.

If you are getting paid for your camera movements (= the people paying you for those movements, expect certain things), or you make.

I am using C100mkII extensively for corporates, and with the 70-200 L is a nightmare to make the right moves, and when there is a whole crew or 5+ people, and the customer(s), missing a shot because of your tripod, isn't acceptable (it is easier to miss something because of the focus, as these lenses aren't very good for video, and people tend to forget this easier).

@pablogrollan The prices are EXCLUDING VAT, so in the end it is the same (or worst) in Europe. CVP has some of the best prices in Europe (and soon to have the best prices in England only!).

How is this head behaving? It is in my price range. What is your typical setup that you are happy with. I would like something that can REALLY stand a C300mkII and 70-200 (or similar) lens.

@kaylee For your camera setup, and I have used it extensively, a Sachtler Ace L (M can do, but L is better in any sense, it even has a light leveling bubble! Crazy that the cheaper M doesn't have this additional 0.1$ cost... ) will be perfect. Actually that is why this series is created. Go test one, the legs are terrible, but the head is amazing. 

P.S I just saw the head you have. You must be joking, right?!

[webrunner5]

I have this head  use for my Panny G7 and I Highly recommend it. It gets the job done for the money. I don't think it can be beat for the price. And if you look at the reviews on it @ B&H I am not alone on my opinion!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/553886-REG/Manfrotto_128RC_128RC_QR_Micro_Fluid.html

[Inazuma]

@pekoo @Kisaha like i said ive not tried more extensive tripods but ive had absolutely no problems with mine, even with it fully extended and the c100 on top, doing camera movements

Edit: and also the xt2 and unstabilised tokina 80-200

[Kisaha]

@webrunner5  If you read the reviews, most of the people have very limited use, or experience with video, or used to have small cheap tripods of no significant value (or performance). Maybe for the G7 and a specific style is sufficient, that is a personal matter, for most people those kind of heads are enough, anyway, with your ENG experience, I am sure you would love something sturdier and with better motion (and load).

The only thing I am sure, these kind of heads are not even slightly ok with dSLR cameras (like the 5D) or even EF-S zoom lenses (18-135 anyone?).

@Inazuma the difference between tripods are vast, that is why Chinese brands (I have used a lot of those) even though are trying for a lot of years now, can't really match the top performance and reliability of top brands.

Try a Sachtler Ace head with your mirrorless camera and I am sure you will appreciate it the differences. It will be cheap to rent one in Manchester!

Other things with more expensive tripods ( @jonpais already mentioned some) are the quality of the moving parts, the connections, the general quality of the materials, how well thought and practical are, how they stand through time - ALL the Chinese ones we had E-Image and Secced and some other brands- are now completely broken, or a nightmare to use (same for "cheap"-o Manfrotto ones) while big expensive Cartonis and Sachtler that we used to rent are still operational.  

[webrunner5]

I understand on average, for people on here, we Need a better video head than the one I suggested. But I will stand by my statement. I have even used it with my AF100A and a 19x B4 Lens hanging off it! Was it desirable, well no, but it balanced, and the movements were smooth. It is a hell of a good head for smaller DSLRs and Mirrorless, and the price is right.

There is no need  that you always have to have a 15 pound tripod all the time. People do bicycle, and backpack, go on vacation at times. This thing works. Is it the Only tripod you need no, but everyone probably needs more than one outfit.  I have my eye on a Vinten Vision 8 to use for my ENG stuff. But that would be sort of overkill for my G7 and a small prime lens. And the Vinten cost a thousand dollars!

[Fritz Pierre]

6 hours ago, kaylee said:

damn i was gonna start a thread abt tripods im glad i didnt wth is going on here ?

do i need to spend $2k on a tripod and head for my 5d3?! just tell me the truth guys i will if i have to

ive got a decent manfrotto tripod with this godawful thing https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/272630-REG/Manfrotto_700RC2_700RC2_Mini_Video_Fluid.html

ive had it for so long i cant even remember buying it smh. it was for like.... a mini dv cam 1000 yrs ago

GOD I WISH THAT HEAD WOULD BREAK SO I COULD BUY A NEW ONE ARRRRGGHH

A lot depends on how you use your camera/s...if a camera sits on a tripod on a set properly weighted down, and someone walked into it, it should hurt them....not the camera??...regarding the head though, there's no more important piece of gear after camera and lens IMO than the best fluid head and legs you can afford....unless you only shoot with the camera locked off....the reason thousands of $s are spent on tripods for cinema cameras go beyond the weight of these cameras...it's about professional looking movement and repeatability...as these small cameras improve in image quality (4K resolution for example) they amplify poor camera movement....in the same way focus becomes unforgiving, so does movement...ergo the need for a fluid head that transfers the movement smoothly....again and again....but...it still depends entirely on what you use your camera for....

[Shirozina]

To the OP - forget doing pans if you are on such a small budget and get a sturdy stills photography tripod with pan and tilt head. Once you need to pan it gets very expensive as the legs have to be super stiff to resist twisting which causes backlash / bounce at the end of a pan (The best for this are the twin tube designs) and a proper fluid head to get the smooth motion and be adjustable to a range of speeds and camera weights can't be engineered cheaply.

[aldolega]

I will echo the advice to get the best tripod & head you can afford. You don't need to spend thousands, but you're probably looking at $300-400 to get something that's workable (unless you find a good used deal).

In my experience, those cheap Manfrottos with the one-sided tilt mechanisms are nearly useless- once you loosen the tilt lock knob, the tilt mechanism goes all wobbly. I would definitely get at least a used Manfrotto 701, which is workable. I used a 701 for a couple years, then went to a Benro S6, and then got REALLY lucky on a Sachtler Ace L with carbon legs on eBay.

The 701 was workable for a light setup, once I got used to the fixed drag. The S6 was a good step up, it was nice to have adjustable tilt drag and adjustable counterbalance. The lack of a pan drag adjustment sucks though, and overall it's built pretty cheaply- plastic knobs, plate release button was sticky, etc. Both the 701 and S6 are dampened, but I wouldn't quite call them smooth.

The Sachtler is a whole 'nother league. Smooth as silk, drag on both axes can go light or nice 'n heavy, counterbalance is more finely adjustable. Having a bowl mount is really nice. Everything about it is really nice, and it makes using my old tripods feel awful, haha. And it's not just a placebo effect- I can see a definite difference in my shots with it.

[jonpais]

5 hours ago, aldolega said:

I will echo the advice to get the best tripod & head you can afford. You don't need to spend thousands, but you're probably looking at $300-400 to get something that's workable (unless you find a good used deal).

In my experience, those cheap Manfrottos with the one-sided tilt mechanisms are nearly useless- once you loosen the tilt lock knob, the tilt mechanism goes all wobbly. I would definitely get at least a used Manfrotto 701, which is workable. I used a 701 for a couple years, then went to a Benro S6, and then got REALLY lucky on a Sachtler Ace L with carbon legs on eBay.

The 701 was workable for a light setup, once I got used to the fixed drag. The S6 was a good step up, it was nice to have adjustable tilt drag and adjustable counterbalance. The lack of a pan drag adjustment sucks though, and overall it's built pretty cheaply- plastic knobs, plate release button was sticky, etc. Both the 701 and S6 are dampened, but I wouldn't quite call them smooth.

The Sachtler is a whole 'nother league. Smooth as silk, drag on both axes can go light or nice 'n heavy, counterbalance is more finely adjustable. Having a bowl mount is really nice. Everything about it is really nice, and it makes using my old tripods feel awful, haha. And it's not just a placebo effect- I can see a definite difference in my shots with it.

Yes, whichever tripod the OP decides to get, I'd also highly recommend a bowl mount, not a center column style. 

[Stanley]

 

[Kisaha]

Those Fotga and Neweer grip systems are very good for most uses. There aren't many things that can fail with those (they just have screws mostly, no mechanisms, no delicate complicacies). I guess everyone has something from Fotga!

..the one and only Mattias, kind off topic, but not much

 

[noone]

if there are any charity shops near you, ask them if they have any tripods.      They may have something out the back.

Tripods may not be looked on as something having any real value (like old cameras for example).      You would be lucky to find a decent fluid head tripod but you never know.

A charity shop I know usually has one or two out the back from all sorts of makers.

I recently paid $5 Australian for a very nice Vanguard  Pan head  tripod that can hold up a battleship there and it is in excellent condition.     Not the highest end but still would have been a few hundred dollars new.

I missed out on a geared head tripod with all sorts of goodies by a few hours a couple of months ago ( I think someone overheard me talking about it and went and got it).

Certainly worth investigating anyway.

Again, not high end and the head isn't detachable but certainly worth more than $5.