No Joke - RAW 4K on the 5D Mark III

[jpfilmz]

Here are a few more test screenshots. I use 10x zoom to carefully check focus.  The images are spectacular. Im only getting about 38 frames @3072x1660 and about 250 @3072x1308.

Crop Mode: 3K 1:1
RAW Video: 3072x1308
Aspect Ratio: 2.35:1
ISO: 1600
14-bit lossless
ML Version: 1.1.3
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 II

Crop Mode: 3K 1:1
RAW Video: 3072x1660
Aspect Ratio: 1.85:1
ISO: 1600
14-bit lossless
ML Version: 1.1.3
Canon 40mm f/2.8

 

[tweak]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Max height is 1920 but of course depends on bit depth and card speeds

Ok so what res can you get up to in a 1:1, 4:3 or 5:4 aspect now??? Or is it the same as previous?

p.s. Stills above look excellent.

[hyalinejim]

11 minutes ago, jpfilmz said:

 Im only getting about 38 frames

Drop your ISO to 100 and see if you can record for longer.

[zerocool22]

2 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

Drop your ISO to 100 and see if you can record for longer.

Does iso make a difference in file size? Or what is the idea behind this?

[squig]

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

OK, I'm pretty sure that the variable compression is due to ISO. In crop_rec 3K (3072 x 1286 ) I can get continuous recording at ISO 100, but if I whack the ISO up to 6400 I get eleven seconds. Can you check if it's the same for you?

100 ISO - black screen ~49%
6400 ISO - black screen ~60%
6400 ISO - busy scene, fast movement ~69%

Explains why you're getting 3K and I'm getting 2.7-2.8K, I've mostly been shooting at between 1500 and 6000 ISO

2.7K scope 14bit lossless. Debayered in ACR, graded in AE with filmconvert. Rendered to 1080p. Sigma 20mm f/1.8 @ f/2.8 1500 ISO

[hyalinejim]

42 minutes ago, tweak said:

Ok so what res can you get up to in a 1:1, 4:3 or 5:4 aspect now???

Max 4:3 resolution possible is 2560 x 1920... I can get 20 seconds at ISO 100.

But I can get continuous recording at 2512 x 1884.

15 minutes ago, squig said:

Explains why you're getting 3K and I'm getting 2.7-2.8K, I've mostly been shooting at between 1500 and 6000 ISO

I can hit 3264 x 1366 continuous on ISO 100.

29 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Does iso make a difference in file size? Or what is the idea behind this?

Higher ISOs have more noise, thus more complexity. The new 14bit lossless compression module needs  a higher bitrate as it tries to preserve the complexity. That's how I understand it for now.

[squig]

35 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

I can hit 3264 x 1366 continuous on ISO 100.

What cards are you using?

[erek]

What is the crop factor for recording 3K and or 4K 24 fps?  is it going to be 3x ?  can't imagine how usable 3x crop is without going almost Fisheye...  the 5D Mark IV is almost usable with 4K @ 1.74 crop with a 24mm lens

[Alex T]

Does the 14bit lossless compression work for 2k or 1080p full frame? Also what kind of card are you using?

[tweak]

Thanks @hyalinejim !

[anto]

I have 3424x1600 continuous, 42%
but with global raw off, and without any preview. black screen. ML greyscale doesn't work

[squig]

59 minutes ago, Alex T said:

Does the 14bit lossless compression work for 2k or 1080p full frame? Also what kind of card are you using?

14bit lossless works on any resolution. I've been using a Toshiba 1066x.

[mercer]

So, I know it's still early and a1ex seems to be making strides as the hours pass, but do you guys think there is value with this new breakthrough in a real production? At first thought, I like the 60p 1080p and also using the 3K for wide establishing shots... if you have a wide enough lens. Anything else I'm missing?

Also, my 5D3 is being delivered tomorrow, obviously I'm not going to mess with this update for a while, but to the regular ML users, do you have any links that will help get me started... am shooting a short film with it in 2 weeks, so I have a steep learning curve ahead of me. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the OT.

[jpfilmz]

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

So, I know it's still early and a1ex seems to be making strides as the hours pass, but do you guys think there is value with this new breakthrough in a real production? At first thought, I like the 60p 1080p and also using the 3K for wide establishing shots... if you have a wide enough lens. Anything else I'm missing?

Also, my 5D3 is being delivered tomorrow, obviously I'm not going to mess with this update for a while, but to the regular ML users, do you have any links that will help get me started... am shooting a short film with it in 2 weeks, so I have a steep learning curve ahead of me. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the OT.

Not at it's current level of development. All I need is a real time color preview while shooting and a continuous 3k or 2k recording format implemented like the 1080 HD MLV format and could take it from there.

[cpc]

4 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

OK, I'm pretty sure that the variable compression is due to ISO. In crop_rec 3K (3072 x 1286 ) I can get continuous recording at ISO 100, but if I whack the ISO up to 6400 I get eleven seconds. Can you check if it's the same for you?

It depends on detail and range. ISO is only one of the factors which increase detail (more noise). If you shoot a highly detailed wide shot you will get significantly lower compression levels than in the case of, say, a close-up with lots of defocus in the frame. Also, darker shots will compress better (less range).

[hyalinejim]

2 hours ago, squig said:

What cards are you using?

I'm using a Komputer Bay 256GB 1066x. Getting another click higher with this afternoon's build.

Talking resolution: for those who love 16:9, or want to deliver Cinemascope with an Isco or 1.33x anamorphic, the maximum attainable 16:9 resolution is 2784 x 1536.

Forgetting about the upper resolutions for a moment, and dropping down to 2.8K Cinemascope, I'm getting a quite usable preview (colour, faster frame rate, not real time) with only a brief flicker of the grayscale preview every five seconds (b&w, very low res, very low refresh rate)

46 minutes ago, mercer said:

do you have any links that will help get me started

• Downgrade your camera to 1.1.3 firmware.
• Get ML installed using an SD card: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHzQkJNMIzU
• Get fast CF cards. My card listed above is relatively good bang for the buck. Test your cards using the in-camera speed test. You'll need at least 85MB/s for 1920 x 1080. If your cards don't show this speed, send them back and try new ones. If you can get cards that are around 95MB/s that's even better, as you'll need this kind of speed for the new high res modes. Use this calculator to figure out how long you can get on a card: http://rawcalculator.bitballoon.com/calculator_desktop
• Get comfortable with the camera by installing the latest non-experimental build. Get familiar with that. Then add the crop_rec module from the experimental builds page. This will give you a fully previewable 1920 x 1080 digital zoom - very useful.
• For post, get up to speed with MLVFS. For log masters, the quick transcoding route is to use Resolve (BMD Film colorspace and gamma, highlight recovery on) - export to ProRes, Cineform or DNXHD 444. For ultimate quality, but slow workflow, use ACR through AE, and consider Cinelog-C.

[mercer]

21 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

I'm using a Komputer Bay 256GB 1066x. Getting another click higher with this afternoon's build.

Talking resolution: for those who love 16:9, or want to deliver Cinemascope with an Isco or 1.33x anamorphic, the maximum attainable 16:9 resolution is 2784 x 1536.

Forgetting about the upper resolutions for a moment, and dropping down to 2.8K Cinemascope, I'm getting a quite usable preview (colour, faster frame rate, not real time) with only a brief flicker of the grayscale preview every five seconds (b&w, very low res, very low refresh rate)

• Downgrade your camera to 1.1.3 firmware.
• Get ML installed using an SD card: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHzQkJNMIzU
• Get fast CF cards. My card listed above is relatively good bang for the buck. Test your cards using the in-camera speed test. You'll need at least 85MB/s for 1920 x 1080. If your cards don't show this speed, send them back and try new ones. If you can get cards that are around 95MB/s that's even better, as you'll need this kind of speed for the new high res modes. Use this calculator to figure out how long you can get on a card: http://rawcalculator.bitballoon.com/calculator_desktop
• Get comfortable with the camera by installing the latest non-experimental build. Get familiar with that. Then add the crop_rec module from the experimental builds page. This will give you a fully previewable 1920 x 1080 digital zoom - very useful.
• For post, get up to speed with MLVFS. For log masters, the quick transcoding route is to use Resolve (BMD Film colorspace and gamma, highlight recovery on) - export to ProRes, Cineform or DNXHD 444. For ultimate quality, but slow workflow, use ACR through AE, and consider Cinelog-C.

Jim, seriously thanks a bunch for taking the time!!!

[hyalinejim]

It's a big learning curve and I think very daunting if you're starting from scratch.

These new developments will see a ML mini-renaissance and new users will be welcomed by the community. Don't be afraid to ask for help also on the ML forum, just read the rules, search first, etc.

Anything else you need, just shout! Or shoot me a PM.

[mercer]

17 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

It's a big learning curve and I think very daunting if you're starting from scratch.

These new developments will see a ML mini-renaissance and new users will be welcomed by the community. Don't be afraid to ask for help also on the ML forum, just read the rules, search first, etc.

Anything else you need, just shout! Or shoot me a PM.

Thanks man. I've shot Raw on the 50D and installation seemed pretty straightforward, but with the 5D3 it seems a bit more complicated... i.e. Setting disk boot flag, downgrading firmware, etc...

Anyway, I'll read up on it, thanks again.

[tigerbengal]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

So, I know it's still early and a1ex seems to be making strides as the hours pass, but do you guys think there is value with this new breakthrough in a real production? At first thought, I like the 60p 1080p and also using the 3K for wide establishing shots... if you have a wide enough lens. Anything else I'm missing?

Also, my 5D3 is being delivered tomorrow, obviously I'm not going to mess with this update for a while, but to the regular ML users, do you have any links that will help get me started... am shooting a short film with it in 2 weeks, so I have a steep learning curve ahead of me. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the OT.

Hi Mercer.....if you are going to film in two weeks...do not use ml raw yet....it will be a nightmare for you, believe me, you need to know exactly what you are doing, otherwise you will ending with a big mess, take your time learning MLRAW how to process it and then you can film with it...

You will need faster cf cards, batteries, hdd space for your raw files, backups...

1066x cards, some time ago the best ones were expensive, people were using Komputerbay card because of the price but it was a lottery with them, some were bad, right now go for LEXARS  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1031509-REG/lexar_lcf64gcrbna10662_64gb_pro_compact_flash.html, how many cards you will need? 4 , 8? you have to try and see how it work for you, buy a faster cf reader to transfer the files to your computer/ext hard drive.

MLVFS is great ...you convert to CDNG on the fly...and can keep your original raw.

there is a lot of things to learn from ml raw menu, how to change them, it is fun and great to learn but take time.....once you know how to work with all the issues you will love the results

good luck and welcome to ml raw world.!!

58 minutes ago, mercer said:

Thanks man. I've shot Raw on the 50D and installation seemed pretty straightforward, but with the 5D3 it seems a bit more complicated... i.e. Setting disk boot flag, downgrading firmware, etc...

Anyway, I'll read up on it, thanks again.

not really, the installation is very simple now, just put the files at the root and do the firmware upgrade....that's it.

Make sure you downgrade your firmware to 1.1.3...I did it with my 5d mark III with no issues....

only use the firmware 1.2.3 if you need dual monitor, otherwise use the firmware 1.1.3