No Joke - RAW 4K on the 5D Mark III

[kabuto1138]

3 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

OK, I'm back at home. Haven't had a chance to have a look at these yet. These are the first DNG in each of the sequences I shot today. There may be motion blur in some, as it was handheld, and some were through a car window.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oqdeuipslwnvipq/AADPkIFTb-HCVPmdsZKz6AeEa?dl=0

All are 3168 x 1320. I used 5x crop with 14bit lossless. I see A1ex has posted a new build with all the new crop modes included. Haven't had a chance to play with those just yet. But these DNGs are continuous at 24p on a Komputerbay 256GB 1066x.

They're not particularly pretty. But if you don't have a cam and wanna have a play - jump right in!

EDIT: And if you're interested in checking out how Cinelog-C can contribute to a ML workflow, I've exported a 444 Cineform transcode of those very same DNGs in one file here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0o8ugt0s9yrxk45/ML%203K.avi?dl=0

PS: Lens was a Tamron 24-70 @ 4 to 5.6 mostly.

Hey hyalinejim,  thx for these DNGs.  I've graded ML Raw files before but there is something about the richness of these files that allows me to push the grade a lot further now.  Very excited about this.

Does anyone else out there has more skin tests DNGs they could share? that's where the magic happens.

THX

[tomekk]

How is FHD form ML looking upscaled to a 4k? I'm still sitting on a FHD Panasonic plasma since nothing beats it yet at reasonable prices (colour/contrast wise). I'm just wondering if FHD content will be watchable on 4K TVs in the future.  

[wolf33d]

19 hours ago, hijodeibn said:

Because no one will buy the new C300 mkii, or the C700...

ML does not care about people buying C700

18 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Same reason they haven't done it on the 1DC. They don't know how.

Canon haven't releases a firmware update file yet for them either. Without that they dont even know where to begin.

No, it's because 1DC has dual processor. It makes it a lot harder so they said

[Neumann Films]

All someone needs to do is pool some money together to get Alex a 5D4 and he will make it happen for that camera.  He's mentioned this several times.  If he had the camera, he would do it.

[hyalinejim]

32 minutes ago, kabuto1138 said:

there is something about the richness of these files that allows me to push the grade a lot further now.

Nice! Just exporting a grade now and what you have there is very similar to what I have here.

I think the perceived increase in richness is due to the fact that all this extra resolution suppresses noise, giving a finer grain, and of course the extra detail helps as well.

[Andrew Reid]

Before the 14bit RAW with ML was pixel binned 1080p

This is like cropping a full res RAW still, 1:1 pixel readout

It is not just going to step up the sharpness and detail.... The dynamic range and noise performance should improve as well.

Astounding work.

[PannySVHS]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

Will do fuzzy. I have a window of time before I have to sell off a lot of stuff and I decided I want to go out with a bang. It started when I saw that video I linked to a few pages ago and then I found Luke Neumann's old 5D3 raw videos that showcased similar locations as his recent GH5 videos and to be honest, imo, there was no contest. The 5D3 ML Raw videos look like they could have been projected on a big screen. It was an easy choice after that. 

 

Hey Merce!

Cannot wait to see your footage with your 5D3 Raw beauty! Didnt you try 50D Raw also? That would make you the owner of three raw cameras then:)

20 minutes ago, Neumann Films said:

All someone needs to do is pool some money together to get Alex a 5D4 and he will make it happen for that camera.  He's mentioned this several times.  If he had the camera, he would do it.

Would donate 50 bucks, so Alex could buy an original Canon lenscap:)

 

[Neumann Films]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

 

Hey Merce!

Cannot wait to see your footage with your 5D3 Raw beauty! Didnt you try 50D Raw also? That would make you the owner of three raw cameras then:)

Would donate 50 bucks, so Alex could buy an original Canon lenscap:)

 

I would as well.  I'm sure you could raise the money to get him a used 5D4 in no time with this forum.

[squig]

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I'm kinda interested in the new 1080/60p mode - quality a big step up from earlier with 3x3 binning, right?

And how about the 14bit JPEG lossless compression mode?

In 4K are people finding that they have to drop to 10bit / 12bit from 14bit to get the data rate under the card limits?

A lot of stuff to experiment with and plenty of ways to get the data rate down... I like it.

Did they bust through the earlier 90Mb/s limit with the new faster CF cards or did the card controller stop at 100?

It's not the Sigma f/1.4 ART, it's the old one; very soft at f/1.8 but really sharp at f/2.8. The 18-35mm and the new 14mm are good options too.

I haven't tried the 60p mode yet.

I've been shooting almost everything 14bit lossless, it's awesome. The files are 14Bit raw MLV and convert to CDNG as usual. a1ex said he knew about the JPEG compression but didn't bother messing with it because he assumed it was just 8bit.

14bit lossless files are a lot smaller than 10/12bit. Some stuff I shot was around 50% compressed.

The (around) 90MB/s limit hasn't changed. There hasn't been any faster CF cards released since the Lexar 1066x. Something a bit faster could theoretically give ML a bit of a write speed boost.

 

8 hours ago, mercer said:

• You are getting continuous recording in 2:39 @ 3072x1286?

Ja

• This is in crop mode with a total crop of 1.87x?

Ja

• This is in color preview with proper framing?

No. At the moment is a VERY low res greyscale preview that refreshes about every second. This is bleeding edge stuff.

• You're recording 24p but LiveView only shows a 7.5fps refresh rate?

24p recording. I wish liveview was that fast.

• Have you tested any 48p or 60p and if so, 1920x960 is the highest resolution possible?

Not yet, I'm still getting my rocks off on 3K.

Thanks in advance for any clarification you can offer.

 

 

[hyalinejim]

3840 x 1600... UHD horizontal resolution. Alex has just posted an update that gives correct and centered framing for these new crop modes, with faster refresh rate and colour... at least some of the time. However, at this resolution I got exactly 30 frames!

Then I tested 3K (to be clear, this is using the crop_rec module rather than 5x crop) and everything was good for a few minutes, and then I got a mad error message on the LCD so I stopped the recording.(EDIT: on my second try, 3K worked just fine - continuous, centered framing that switches between slow, low res greyscale and slightly higher res, faster but not realtime colour).

Things are moving and improving quickly.

It took me a while to figure this out, but for the new high res crop_rec modes you need to select the crop mode AND change the resolution in the RAW options.

[HelsinkiZim]

Oh god, this is so tempting - beautiful, a true testament to what this community is all about. Literally one of the sirens Odysseus got his knickers in a twist about.

But... I have to stick to my guns.

I sold off my GH4 and next going is my Micro Cinema Camera - I simply refuse to fiddle with another camera ever again on paid shoots. I want it to work out of the box, which is why I am moving to the Ursa Mini Pro. For me it is a compromise of both worlds - ease of use for paid work and the ability to unleash the beast when I have time to play around with grading. If I could afford it I would have gone Canon C300 or even FS7, but Blackmagic makes me feel like I am still part of the DSLR community (whatever that isnow:/)

This is tempting however as a B cam and that is the decision I have to ponder for a few weeks, as I had already put my mind on the a6500 - again for ease of use with a simple native wide and circa 50mm lens for super low budget jobs. However, again those low budget jobs would become bigger tasks if I used raw - so by process of logical thought, unless I want to back to 1080p -

- this would just be a fun toy.

I don't need more toys (so my wife tells me often).

Decision made - pass, but happy for you all!

[Neumann Films]

The 5D4 with C-Log needs to be unlocked.  Stat.

[squig]

7 hours ago, jpfilmz said:

I'm in 1.13 and getting pink colored fames using MIRaw Viewer....but it's only with the 14bit lossless setting enabled.   

Use mlv_dump https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-7nnVbwzGVkUmpHLW5kbEU3OWc/view

 

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Try the 3840 x 1600!

This is the upper limit for continuous raw, beyond this you'll get x amount of frames before the buffer fills.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

3840 x 1600... UHD horizontal resolution. Alex has just posted an update that gives correct and centered framing for these new crop modes, with faster refresh rate and colour... at least some of the time. However, at this resolution I got exactly 30 frames!

Then I tested 3K (to be clear, this is using the crop_rec module rather than 5x crop) and everything was good for a few minutes, and then I got a mad error message on the LCD so I stopped the recording.(EDIT: on my second try, 3K worked just fine - continuous, centered framing that switches between slow, low res greyscale and slightly higher res, faster but not realtime colour).

Things are moving and improving quickly.

It took me a while to figure this out, but for the new high res crop_rec modes you need to select the crop mode AND change the resolution in the RAW options.

I remember that set up from the XC10 tests... I must say it looks a lot better in 4k Raw.

[mercer]

2 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

 

Hey Merce!

Cannot wait to see your footage with your 5D3 Raw beauty! Didnt you try 50D Raw also? That would make you the owner of three raw cameras then:)

Would donate 50 bucks, so Alex could buy an original Canon lenscap:)

 

Hey Panny, I still have the 50D but I just listed it on eBay. I never got the BMPCC. Well I bought one but it wasn't as described.

I won't inundate the forums with my boring test footage... well maybe a screengrab or two, I can't go completely cold turkey. 

But when I get some pieces finished, I'll be sure to post them.

[HockeyFan12]

6 hours ago, mercer said:

I was buying one anyway, now this is just gravy that will fulfill those days when I feel like messing around with 4K Raw... just the fact that we can shoot 4K Raw on a $2000 or less camera is nuts. 

I will use mine for micro shorts, 3-5 minutes long. So I am not too worried about storage space and any other hiccups that may occur. The projects are already small enough and I am pretty much a one man band filmmaker, so I won't have the costs more professional productions would accrue.

But even still, I will treat 5D3 Raw like we used to treat shooting 16mm short ends... basically a 3:1, 4:1 shot ratio with a completely planned, story boarded script. Hopefully it will make me a more considerate filmmaker in the end and story, composition and lighting will be bigger concerns.

Have fun! Should be great. Shooting 16mm was always my favorite and it seems like a similar approach here, too!

I work in post so I'm super lazy about workflow stuff, even though my needs are pretty similar to yours. I don't want to do what I do for work free unless I have a good reason to. So I'm not dipping my toes back in the magic lantern waters, but they sure do look more inviting than ever.

[hyalinejim]

 

[squig]

8 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

https://vimeo.com/211239982

 

Great, you saved me the trouble. I'd rather spend my time looking for bugs than cutting and grading. If people wanna know what it looks like; it looks exactly like a 5D MK3 photo cropped to 3K, there's millions of those around.

Are you having any issues with this: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=19300.msg182227#msg182227

 

[hyalinejim]

2 minutes ago, squig said:

Great, you saved me the trouble. I'd rather spend my time looking for bugs than cutting and grading. If people wanna know what it looks like; it looks exactly like a 5D MK3 photo cropped to 3K, there's millions of those around.

Are you having any issues with this: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=19300.msg182227#msg182227

 

I thought it good to throw what I got today up there. Magic Lantern can be a bit daunting and theoretical until you see it in action.

I haven't played around enough with the crop_rec modes, really. Except that when I tried to recreate 5x crop 3k in crop_rec 3k I got a crash log onscreen on the first go, but second time it worked fine.

[mercer]

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

 

Looks great, Jim. Very promising. I am more and more convinced I made the right choice getting a Mark iii.